Bread Baking (sourdough)

[SB]

It has that Godzilla look.

[Buke]

Sunday's efforts.
1. My normal sourdough loaf. I've pretty much settled on 75% AP, 15% WW, 10% Rye, 74% hydration, + 20% hydration sourdough starter (@100% hydration), 2% salt
2. First attempt at cinnamon rolls. They turned out pretty good but they would improve with icing and I think rolling them thinner and getting a little more of the sugar filling would be good too.

[CovertM]

Worked from home with a sick wife and kid yesterday, did a power bake.

Same steps I posted above, but skipped the overnight ferment. Mixed up in the early AM, stretch and fold periodically over a couple hours, bulk ferment in the warm spot, shape and final proof then bake.
Also reduced the flour by about 5-7% to see what it did, seems like slightly more open crumb and fluffier chew (if that makes sense). Not sure I like it more or not. Love the ongoing experiment.
P.S. The dark loaf is all WW flour with about 1/3 Rye flour I needed to use up. Also had about 65g of local honey, pretty good dense hearty loaf.

[KQ]

Sunday's efforts.
1. My normal sourdough loaf. I've pretty much settled on 75% AP, 15% WW, 10% Rye, 74% hydration, + 20% hydration sourdough starter (@100% hydration), 2% salt

Worked from home with a sick wife and kid yesterday, did a power bake.

Same steps I posted above, but skipped the overnight ferment. Mixed up in the early AM, stretch and fold periodically over a couple hours, bulk ferment in the warm spot, shape and final proof then bake.
Also reduced the flour by about 5-7% to see what it did, seems like slightly more open crumb and fluffier chew (if that makes sense). Not sure I like it more or not. Love the ongoing experiment.
P.S. The dark loaf is all WW flour with about 1/3 Rye flour I needed to use up. Also had about 65g of local honey, pretty good dense hearty loaf.

So do you two work out of Ken Forkish's book Flour Salt Water Yeast?

[CovertM]

So do you two work out of Ken Forkish's book Flour Salt Water Yeast?

Negative, no books used so far. Self experimentation and a couple tips from buddies. Also used a few recipes/tips from http://www.thefreshloaf.com/

I really do need to start keeping a log or journal to keep track of recipes and percentages.

[KQ]

looks great. Amazing the light heats up the oven that much. I guess that's due to an oven being so well insulated. I'll have to throw a thermometer in mine and see what I get.

I baked my first levain (sourdough) recipe Saturday. Actually, a hybrid because I used a little active yeast also. The difference in how well it keeps vs. a pure active yeast loaf is noticeable. Had a slice this morning, and it still seems fresh. I would be making croutons from a pure active yeast loaf by now.

Reaching way back for this quote but I have new knowledge re: freshness because of that book you recommended.

According to Mr. Forkish (page 29):

Longer developing time also causes dough to become more acidic. Up to a point, this is a a good thing. More acidity in bread means it stays fresher longer, and lactic and acetic acids add valuable and unique flavors, aromas, and sensations. However, too much acidity creates a cloying aftertaste that many people, including me, find disagreeable. The trick is finding the right balance between time and temperature so the dough develops a desirable complexity of flavors without becoming too acid or dominated by alcohols, while simultaneously getting optimal development of the structure of the dough.

My SD would stay fresh for a very long time compared to the loaves I bought from a local bakery however mine also had a very strong aftertaste and now I know why. I've got some dough in the proofer now. I've been closely watching the rising times and temps along the way keeping it conservative whereas before I would usually go to the end of the recommended range. It will go into the fridge tonight and get baked tomorrow. Hopefully this time I will not end up with that strong aftertaste.

BTW: I'm using a Cooks 24hr Sourdough recipe that calls for making a sponge (biga) with refreshed starter. The biga is left to rise for 2-4hrs then it is added to 12oz of 70 degree H2O and 24oz of flour, 1/2 cup at a time, is mixed in using a Kitchen Aid with dough hook. The dough is rested for 20mins then 2.5tsp of salt is added (I use KA bread salt) and it is once again mixed with Kitchen Aid for about 5 mins. I then knead it for 30 secs shaping it into a smooth ball and proof it for 3 - 5 hrs (at this point the dough was 75 degrees so I set my proofing box to 70 degrees). Once the final warm proof is done the dough is stretched, divided, shaped and proofed overnight in the fridge.


Question for you Mr. Mike: Have you tried many of the recipes in Forkish's book and did you invest in a 12qt tub? Not that it's an "investment" just wondering if it really is helpful.

Also, I notice from your pics you've got quite the compliment of Emil Henry bakers. Do you like the loaf pan and which one is it? I was looking at them and the reviews weren't esp. positive.

[SB]

dough in the fridge

bakey friday

[KQ]

Question for the collective:

Do we think that I can bake my sourdough boules from a recipe that calls for baking on a stone in a Dutch oven?

My recipe calls for 30 mins on a preheated stone (500, turn down to 450). I've read another recipe that had about the same percentages of water/flour/salt/ yeast that bakes in a Dutch oven for 50mins (475).

My recipe calls for a 2-4hr rise at room temp after a 8-12 overnight rise in the fridge. The Dutch oven recipe calls for a 12-14 rise in the fridge overnight and then straight into a preheated Dutch oven.

What do you think? Can I leave my boules in the fridge longer skipping the room temp rise and bake them longer in a Dutch oven?

[CovertM]

Absolutely can do it in the Dutch Oven. I've tried so many times on a stone (and steel baking sheet) and never get as good of results. Almost every recipe I make goes in the dutch oven, except for loaves. Interested to find a baguette shaped dutch oven cooker.

I would not recommend skipping the room temp rise. I feel you get a better oven rise if the shaped dough is at least up to room temp or close. Most of mine that I have put in straight from the fridge don't rise as well and tend to over brown before internal temp is appropriate. My .02

[KQ]

Absolutely can do it in the Dutch Oven. I've tried so many times on a stone (and steel baking sheet) and never get as good of results. Almost every recipe I make goes in the dutch oven, except for loaves. Interested to find a baguette shaped dutch oven cooker.

I would not recommend skipping the room temp rise. I feel you get a better oven rise if the shaped dough is at least up to room temp or close. Most of mine that I have put in straight from the fridge don't rise as well and tend to over brown before internal temp is appropriate. My .02

Okay but what about the cooking time? Will that change?

Stone method is 30 mins.

[KQ]

I opted to stay with the tried and true this go around. I needed bread and had invested too much time to have it not turn out.

Next time I follow the other recipe from Forkish to compare and contrast.

[riser4]

I opted to stay with the tried and true this go around. I needed bread and had invested too much time to have it not turn out.

Next time I follow the other recipe from Forkish to compare and contrast.

My, what nice round loaves you have!

[KQ]

My, what nice round loaves you have!

And oh so tasty! Just enjoyed several butter slices with some beef barley soup I made today. Purrrrrrrrrr, purrrrrrrrrrrrr, purrrrrrrrrrrrrr, life is good!

[SB]

They look like perfect soup bowls. The Farnsworth in Gettysburg PA serves a cheese, ham and potato soup in a bread bowl that is pretty darn good.

My loaf turned out ok, bottom is a tad crunchy. I tried the late salt addition after the dough did a good rise. Still doing an hour at 420F. I am liking my Costway mixer.

[KQ]

They look like perfect soup bowls. The Farnsworth in Gettysburg PA serves a cheese, ham and potato soup in a bread bowl that is pretty darn good.

My loaf turned out ok, bottom is a tad crunchy. I tried the late salt addition after the dough did a good rise. Still doing an hour at 420F. I am liking my Costway mixer.

They're a bit bigger than they seem in the pic. Would be A LOT of soup and bread for one person to eat.

You bake your bread for an hour? Was this in a Dutch oven or on a stone?

[Mr. Mike]

Reaching way back for this quote but I have new knowledge re: freshness because of that book you recommended.

According to Mr. Forkish (page 29):



My SD would stay fresh for a very long time compared to the loaves I bought from a local bakery however mine also had a very strong aftertaste and now I know why. I've got some dough in the proofer now. I've been closely watching the rising times and temps along the way keeping it conservative whereas before I would usually go to the end of the recommended range. It will go into the fridge tonight and get baked tomorrow. Hopefully this time I will not end up with that strong aftertaste.

BTW: I'm using a Cooks 24hr Sourdough recipe that calls for making a sponge (biga) with refreshed starter. The biga is left to rise for 2-4hrs then it is added to 12oz of 70 degree H2O and 24oz of flour, 1/2 cup at a time, is mixed in using a Kitchen Aid with dough hook. The dough is rested for 20mins then 2.5tsp of salt is added (I use KA bread salt) and it is once again mixed with Kitchen Aid for about 5 mins. I then knead it for 30 secs shaping it into a smooth ball and proof it for 3 - 5 hrs (at this point the dough was 75 degrees so I set my proofing box to 70 degrees). Once the final warm proof is done the dough is stretched, divided, shaped and proofed overnight in the fridge.


Question for you Mr. Mike: Have you tried many of the recipes in Forkish's book and did you invest in a 12qt tub? Not that it's an "investment" just wondering if it really is helpful.

Also, I notice from your pics you've got quite the compliment of Emil Henry bakers. Do you like the loaf pan and which one is it? I was looking at them and the reviews weren't esp. positive.

I have the rectangular bread loaf baker. I like it because I like to make a sandwich style loaf. Works great for me.

I did recently buy 2 of those 12 quart tubs and I like them simply because they are easier to clean after mixing than the steel or glass I was previously using.

[KQ]

I have the rectangular bread loaf baker. I like it because I like to make a sandwich style loaf. Works great for me.

I did recently buy 2 of those 12 quart tubs and I like them simply because they are easier to clean after mixing than the steel or glass I was previously using.

So no sticking with the baker? IIRC sticking was one of the main complaints.

[SB]

They're a bit bigger than they seem in the pic. Would be A LOT of soup and bread for one person to eat.

You bake your bread for an hour? Was this in a Dutch oven or on a stone?

In a dutch oven, take the lid off around 40 minute mark.

Y'all seem to be baking at 450F for 30 minutes.

[JimmyCarter]

Another attempt at the no knead bread. Let it cook with the top off a bit longer and didnt let it rise as long (about 18 hours instead of over 24 last time).

[KQ]

Another attempt at the no knead bread. Let it cook with the top off a bit longer and didnt let it rise as long (about 18 hours instead of over 24 last time).

Nice structure!

Do you notice a big taste difference with the shorter rise?

When I baked SD a couple days ago I watched the rise times and kept them pretty much in the middle where as I used to let them run right up to the higher end. As a result my bread developed too much acid and had a strong aftertaste. This last time there was a marked difference in the flavor and that aftertaste was gone.

[JimmyCarter]

Nice structure!

Do you notice a big taste difference with the shorter rise?

When I baked SD a couple days ago I watched the rise times and kept them pretty much in the middle where as I used to let them run right up to the higher end. As a result my bread developed too much acid and had a strong aftertaste. This last time there was a marked difference in the flavor and that aftertaste was gone.

Much cleaner this go round. Last one had a section that had bit of a boozy/fermented taste, which is why I tried to cut it back.

[SB]

Another attempt at the no knead bread. Let it cook with the top off a bit longer and didnt let it rise as long (about 18 hours instead of over 24 last time).

Whoa! nice work.

[Skidog]

Not sourdough, but first attempt at non no knead bread. Also first attempt at loaves. Will hopefully post cut (interior) pics. Crust could be crisper I think but didn't want to overcook.


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[Mr. Mike]

So no sticking with the baker? IIRC sticking was one of the main complaints.

No sticking NOW. I've started applying a very light layer of canola oil using a silicon brush on the bottom and up the sides. No taste noted, and the loaf slides right out with just a simple flip.

[SB]

Made dough yesterday and bread last night. Forgot and added salt in the mix, oh well.

Let it rise most of the day, transferred to butter coated DO for final rise before oven.

Baked at 450F with 30 minutes covered in DO. Another 15 minutes uncovered.

Turned out nice. Sorry did not get pics.