UT/WY Missing Persons Case>WILD

[ill-advised strategy]

Jokes also normalize things.

I hear they’re not much for jokes over at alpinezone.

[heckacali]

I certainly haven't seen anything funny posted in this thread.

[MultiVerse]

Since several people asked, according to the transcript the Police did contact the witness / 911 caller:

"So he said that he never saw the male strike the female. He saw the male trying to lock her out of the vehicle. She even told us that he was trying to lock her out and told him to go take a walk. So that she was trying to get in. She eventually couldn’t get in and actually clawed her way in through the driver’s door. He says “I don’t understand why she’s doing that” well I think it’s because it was the only door that wasn’t locked that she can get through. She’s trying to get it over him. He’s trying to disengage from her. I guess he hung her backpack on the back, probably so she would have her shit. So that he didn’t have to engage with her."

....

"Everything she’s saying is same thing. I haven’t heard what he said, but if that’s what he said it’s also what the witnesses saying. The witness says I never saw him hit her. I saw him shove her but I couldn’t tell if it was an aggression against her or a defense against her. As far as her being the aggressor. So at this point, unless the guy’s screaming that he needs to go to jail and did something to this girl. It sounds to me like she is the primary aggressor. Now the problem with her being the primary aggressor is in an instance of domestic assault, be it a male or be it a female, we shall arrest."

[hikesalot]

That's quite a double standard. We should be able to ridicule both sexes for staying in an abusive relationship, or neither of them. Obviously, someone is dead here which changes what's acceptable, but your previous post wasn't specific to abusive relationships that end in murder. The influencer/social media angle is also relevant here--if she had been less consumed with vlogging maybe (a big maybe, admittedly) she would have recognized that she was in an unhealthy relationship that was rapidly deteriorating.

"We should be able to ridicule both sexes for staying in an abusive relationship, or neither of them" ..... sorry DTM, but ummmm, NO. WTF. Ridicule???? If you really say you want to evaluate mistakes, present them as so, not as a ridicule. But more importantly know that the abused are being manipulated and it often starts slowly, the victim doesn't think it will get worse, they love the person, the person threatens them and things escalate.... etc, etc. I don't care how annoying the victim is, that abuser behavior is WRONG. The abuser needs to control themselves. But they're a control freak and have the victim just where they want them.

"The influencer/social media angle is also relevant here--if she had been less consumed with vlogging maybe (a big maybe, admittedly) she would have recognized that she was in an unhealthy relationship that was rapidly deteriorating." ---- Again, NO. This could be said for any busy woman consumed with anything.... parenting, athlete, working person, person w/o a lot of support. Just because this gal was into vlogging doesn't mean she SAW the abuse coming, or DESERVED to be abused. NO. That is on the guy doing the abusing. They manipulate their victim to think they're alone, that no one will believe them, that something bad will happen to them or their family if they leave the relationship.

[dunfree]

Jokes can normalize things, they can also point out how glaringly bad things are.

[heckacali]

Sadly another local and relevant story on this topic just popped up in the Tahoe thread in general.
Hits too close to home again.

[cat in january]

ha, yeah I thought about that and maybe a couple others. But maybe bottom line is if there's a misogynistic post, count on her pointing it out. If you don't see the misogyny, maybe think harder, you could learn something. Then, keep scrolling. Because she's not wrong, just being a debbie downer on the misogynistic fun, I suppose. I mean, I think times are changing and that stuff has lessened in society, but not as fast on the TRG. There's surprisingly a lot of men here who sound like they believe some of the things they say.

Regrettably there’s a long and sordid history of mtngirl on the board. Over time she used up all the good will many of us had

[hikesalot]

Regrettably there’s a long and sordid history of mtngirl on the board. Over time she used up all the good will many of us had

yeah, I've been here for all that. I guess for me having people post STFU to her constantly is even more annoying than just ignoring her.

[MTT]

Post first, then smoke crack.

Really. I thought Teton national park was on the way to Yellow Stone
If your coming from Utah. But I’ve never been there

Did they post from Yellow Stone?

Stop bogarting the pipe and pass it along

[Mustonen]

yeah, I've been here for all that. I guess for me having people post STFU to her constantly is even more annoying than just ignoring her.

This.

Would you guys shut the fuck up?

[ex-powderbroker]

Since several people asked, according to the transcript the Police did contact the witnesses / 911 callers:

"So he said that he never saw the male strike the female. He saw the male trying to lock her out of the vehicle. She even told us that he was trying to lock her out and told him to go take a walk. So that she was trying to get in. She eventually couldn’t get in and actually clawed her way in through the driver’s door. He says “I don’t understand why she’s doing that” well I think it’s because it was the only door that wasn’t locked that she can get through. She’s trying to get it over him. He’s trying to disengage from her. I guess he hung her backpack on the back, probably so she would have her shit. So that he didn’t have to engage with her."

....

"Everything she’s saying is same thing. I haven’t heard what he said, but if that’s what he said it’s also what the witnesses saying. The witness says I never saw him hit her. I saw him shove her but I couldn’t tell if it was an aggression against her or a defense against her. As far as her being the aggressor. So at this point, unless the guy’s screaming that he needs to go to jail and did something to this girl. It sounds to me like she is the primary aggressor. Now the problem with her being the primary aggressor is in an instance of domestic assault, be it a male or be it a female, we shall arrest."

911 fails to have conveyed the info they received to the cops on the scene. What they say about the witness report clearly contradicts the 911 call, so unless they called the witness and he retracted, this was a huge fuckup.

[Dantheman]

"We should be able to ridicule both sexes for staying in an abusive relationship, or neither of them" ..... sorry DTM, but ummmm, NO. WTF. Ridicule???? If you really say you want to evaluate mistakes, present them as so, not as a ridicule. But more importantly know that the abused are being manipulated and it often starts slowly, the victim doesn't think it will get worse, they love the person, the person threatens them and things escalate.... etc, etc. I don't care how annoying the victim is, that abuser behavior is WRONG. The abuser needs to leave the relationship. But they're a control freak and have the victim just where they want them.

"The influencer/social media angle is also relevant here--if she had been less consumed with vlogging maybe (a big maybe, admittedly) she would have recognized that she was in an unhealthy relationship that was rapidly deteriorating." ---- Again, NO. This could be said for any busy woman consumed with anything.... parenting, athlete, working person, person w/o a lot of support. Just because this gal was into vlogging doesn't mean she SAW the abuse coming, or DESERVED to be abused. NO. That is on the guy doing the abusing. They manipulate their victim to think they're alone, that no one will believe them, that something bad will happen to them or their family if they leave the relationship.

Simmer down. The ridicule statement was specific to Danno saying it was OK to ridicule men being dragged around by their balls to take IG snaps. This is not hypothetical, see post #151. It's worth pointing out that it's weird that ridiculing these guys is OK--I suspect that joking about it would not go over as well if the gender roles were reversed.

As to the second part, I sure as hell never said she deserved to be abused. No one does, ever, period. It's true that being consumed with anything could conceivably blind you to being in an abusive relationship, but actively curating an online presence that directly hinges on portraying your relationship as healthy and loving is definitely more likely to create a self-delusional state that blinds you to reality.

[hikesalot]

Simmer down. The ridicule statement was specific to Danno saying it was OK to ridicule men being dragged around by their balls to take IG snaps. This is not hypothetical, see post #151.

As to the second part, I sure as hell never said she deserved to be abused. No one does, ever, period. It's true that being consumed with anything could conceivably blind you to being in an abusive relationship, but actively curating an online presence that directly hinges on portraying your relationship as healthy and loving is definitely more likely create a self-delusional state that blinds you to reality.

I hear you, was wondering if I “read” ur post right. Seemed off from ur normal and I was sorta in shock. I can chill now

[MultiVerse]

911 fails to have conveyed the info they received to the cops on the scene.

It's not clear whether there was more than one witness. If it's the same person then the 911 caller either changed / clarified what he saw or the cops misrepresented the story. The cops repeatedly ask Gabby if Laundrie hit her and she says "He didn’t hit me" .... "but he definitely gets frustrated with a lot"

[neckdeep]

My amateur detective stupidity requires that I opine that he killed her, then afterward tried to create an alibi by telling a false story to the couple who picked him up hitchhiking. I think the authorities know the whole case by now.

Yeah, I also think he tried to concoct an alibi by volunteering info to that couple. But, as I noted earlier, that desperate plan fell apart when they decided to take the scenic route instead of the highway and he realized he was going to the wrong side of the river. Just based off the info he gave them, I figured he had dumped her between spread creek and shadow mountain, up on the forest rd above that dude ranch. I was pretty damn close.

I figure, being travel bloggers, they wanted to score a prime overlook campsite on shadow mountain. But, no way, not in busy season. Those would all be full. So then they'd go one forest road to the north, there's some ridgeline sites there, not quite as prime but nice. Those spots would also be taken in late August. So they keep driving, they're tired, its hot and they are bickering over shitty campsites with no view. They get to spread creek. Its scrub and gravel piles, definitely unworthy of a travel blog. And then it happened.

[jono]

Ok, so in the vaccine thread it's unacceptable to tell Montucky he's spouting nonsense unless you can discuss the science with specificity? Got it, it's clear we all obey that standard.

Never again will I try to tell someone that their take is a poor one based on all that I have read about domestic violence, because I am not well-enough versed in the scholarly DV literature to provide the nuance to properly educate them. Seems to me that TGR will be a boring place if none of us can speak about what we know, unless we can also speak about it well enough to provide scholarly support and properly educate those spouting bad takes.

I was making a request in case someone does know something. Hence the word "please." Because I want to hear what the (rare here) female perspective is on that. The male perspective is that you should learn how to read or just STFU. Since this is TGR.

[cat in january]

yeah, I've been here for all that. I guess for me having people post STFU to her constantly is even more annoying than just ignoring her.

Been out in the woods so only caught up on last two pages and missed the stfu posts. I guess she could be the first person I put on ignore. Just a voice I don’t care to hear anymore.

[hikesalot]

I was making a request in case someone does know something. Hence the word "please." Because I want to hear what the (rare here) female perspective is on that. The male perspective is that you should learn how to read or just STFU. Since this is TGR.

I’m female. I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking in your post that Danno responded to. You’ve seen my posts about the misogyny. Can you clarify your question?

[Core Shot]

Moral of the story

Not every #VanLife adventure has a happy ending.

And most “influencers” don’t have half the dream life you think they do.
It’s all airbrushed and photoshopped

[LongShortLong]

That's quite a double standard. We should be able to ridicule both sexes for staying in an abusive relationship, or neither of them. Obviously, someone is dead here which changes what's acceptable, but your previous post wasn't specific to abusive relationships that end in murder. The influencer/social media angle is also relevant here--if she had been less consumed with vlogging maybe (a big maybe, admittedly) she would have recognized that she was in an unhealthy relationship that was rapidly deteriorating.

You guys aren't getting it. I'm adding to the call out in the hope some will get it. Go read up on abusive relationships and domestic violence. Understanding is how we stop this shit going forward.

[jono]

I’m female. I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking in your post that Danno responded to. You’ve seen my posts about the misogyny. Can you clarify your question?

Yes, I'm wondering if you can speak more to what it looks like to be in her situation and what the challenges are (similar to the heuristic traps we know from avi-talk) that get in the way of safer decision-making. You've done so already to some extent, but I'd be very interested if you (and/or Mtngrl) can expand on that in less speculative ways (i.e. not necessarily specific to this girl we don't know, if you have better examples, etc).

ETA: and if not, that's totally understandable. I'm not expecting everyone to be as open as IAS and obviously if you don't have something specific on this that's cool, too. Just saying that if you do it would be interesting to hear.

[MTT]

Moral of the story

Not every #VanLife adventure has a happy ending.

And most “influencers” don’t have half the dream life you think they do.
It’s all airbrushed and photoshopped

Did anyone bother look at the content she posted? I didn’t. I assume it’s all been flashed on the screen in the news stories

So not much. She might have been making an attempt to profit on her looks.
Brian killing her. Probably. But why. Was he a sociopath who controlled and tormented her? Or was she just bad news and tormented him into violence?
23 years old living with mom and dad
Does not have good coping skills

The story about him threatening to leave her afoot. That’s a line I would never cross. Just the threat of doing that. I find very cruel.

[warthog]

yeah, I've been here for all that. I guess for me having people post STFU to her constantly is even more annoying than just ignoring her.

I seriously didn't know it was her.

It all makes sense now.

[jono]

Really. I thought Teton national park was on the way to Yellow Stone
If your coming from Utah. But I’ve never been there

Did they post from Yellow Stone?

Stop bogarting the pipe and pass it al ng

I'm sure you're right that they didn't even make it to Yellowstone. He had 8 days, so maybe he went alone, would that redeem the trip somewhat? That's where the crack comes in.

[hikesalot]

Yes, I'm wondering if you can speak more to what it looks like to be in her situation and what the challenges are (similar to the heuristic traps we know from avi-talk) that get in the way of safer decision-making. You've done so already to some extent, but I'd be very interested if you (and/or Mtngrl) can expand on that in less speculative ways (i.e. not necessarily specific to this girl we don't know, if you have better examples, etc).

I don’t have personal experience in an abusive romantic/boyfriend/husband relationship, because I’d be like oh hell no. (happily married to my husband who has many habits I can contribute to the Jesus H Christ thread, but he doesn’t abuse me.). BUT my mom was and I have other examples from close friends. I’ll come back to respond after I have time to put thoughts together.

It’s unbelievable and scary and hard to leave when you think someone loves you and you don’t think it will escalate/get worse until it does.