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  1. #226
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    this is both hilarious and educational.

  2. #227
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    Why all the Caroline Gleich hate?

    Disappointing she didn't get any grinds in w Aunt Bee

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyeaster View Post
    i took good people on both sides as a reference to the celebrity apprentice after charlottesville. in this case, i was referring to men in general, not tgr. basically, every woman i know who has worked for any substantial time in a field dominated by men (so many!) has had to deal with some version of what cg is dealing with. men don't and many don't believe it and/or mimimize it and/or blame it on the woman when presented with any possible evidence of it. i'm not happy to be part of that brick wall.

    I have not been paying close attention to this. But.
    I just don't by it.

    I do not think there is any way that these avy people cut a woman down just because she is a woman.

    NO FUCKIG WAY! the world is not like that.

    It's all shit.
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    I have not been paying close attention to this. But.
    I just don't by it.

    I do not think there is any way that these avy people cut a woman down just because she is a woman.

    NO FUCKIG WAY! the world is not like that.
    Yes it is. It's been that way for centuries. Millennia even.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    I have not been paying close attention to this. But.
    I just don't by it.

    I do not think there is any way that these avy people cut a woman down just because she is a woman.

    NO FUCKIG WAY! the world is not like that.

    It's all shit.
    compassion for self, compassion for others.

    in 2020 women can celebrate 100 years of being able to vote in a country that will be 244 years old!

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    I have not been paying close attention to this. But.
    I just don't by it.

    I do not think there is any way that these avy people cut a woman down just because she is a woman.

    NO FUCKIG WAY! the world is not like that.

    It's all shit.
    So your skeptical of this but not of Alex Jones / Info Wars? Well, that’s certainly interesting...
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  7. #232
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    Lol. Hey at least he's vaccinated

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    So your skeptical of this but not of Alex Jones / Info Wars? Well, that’s certainly interesting...
    lol

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by telefreewasatch View Post
    So lemme get this straight. cg calls a couple of local high level avy instructors out on Outside online. Hmmm. Was that the best way to handle her grievance?
    To be fair, she wrote a blog post on her personal blog defending herself against perceived bias, sexism, and unfounded accusations. The post happened to be picked up on Outside online.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  10. #235
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    who writes "im not even getting paid to write this article" on their personal blog?
    authors get paid to write
    bloggers get paid to have ads and click bait shit trafficing crap on their ego enhancement site
    and who really needs avvy 3 when you haz #"expert intuition"
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  11. #236
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    Why all the Caroline Gleich hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    who writes "im not even getting paid to write this article" on their personal blog?
    authors get paid to write
    bloggers get paid to have ads and click bait shit trafficing crap on their ego enhancement site
    and who really needs avvy 3 when you haz #"expert intuition"
    You’re starting to sound a bit like a hater...

    She makes jack shit off any blog ads, I assure you. Unless you consider like $100 per month big money.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  12. #237
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    Wow this is heating up now. Must be the off season.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  13. #238
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    I feel like this bit of critique from Avi class is something I encounter a lot in the teaching environment, and that is a very problematic trait in a learner:
    "She talks when she should listen and is strongly defensive from the start. Remember respect is earned and never given. By having such a large social media presence, you set yourself up for added criticism and comment, silence your critics through action and decisions, not words."

    I'm not teaching in the outdoor realm, but am a nurse and often teach new nurses. New hires coming through an ICU setting that are overly confident, won't listen to feedback, and think they know it all on the first day are SCARY! They are almost guaranteed to be the ones that make the biggest mistakes. Absolutely yes, respect is earned and not given... you can literally kill someone if you fuck up as a nurse, so you don't pass orientation until we can be certain you are safe and will ask for help if you don't know how to do something. This is not all that different than the decision making required to pass an Avi 3 class. I am a strong, outspoken, opinionated woman, but I read her instructor critique as a legitimate concern. The reason she took the class was to learn, but it sounds pretty clear that she wasn't being a good learner, male or female. In the nursing realm, it's the men I have the most issue with this personality trait, but gender aside, it doesn't make it any less dangerous. Also, give some respect to guides. The training and certifications required to be a guide are difficult and take a huge amount of time and experience to accomplish. Just because she has the skiing skills to ski with guide doesn't put her on the same knowledge base as a guide. That's no disrespect to CG, it's just a fact. I ski and climb with guide friends, and would never presume to be equal to them in terms of overall knowledge just because in some arenas I may have the skill to keep up.

    The second part of the critique makes sense to me as well. As everyone has said before, having a large media presence lends itself to criticism and trolls. That does not mean that criticism and trolling are acceptable, but the more attention you give to trolls the more power they hold, and the more they have to gain from their shitty actions. I'd wager that 99% of the people on this thread, or in the world that know who CG is would not have wasted time disputing her accomplishment... but now here we are wondering about it. No benefit has come from bringing light the handful of assholes questioning. I don't doubt that Angel Collinson has trolls and people who give her shit all the time. Rather than waste time giving the trolls power and casting doubt, she just skis like a badass and does her thing. Her accomplishments speak for themselves, and anyone who disputes it can suck it. To each their own I suppose, but I feel like in the long run this just invites more feedback, trolling, and criticism.
    So hot right now

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpkdz View Post
    I feel like this bit of critique from Avi class is something I encounter a lot in the teaching environment, and that is a very problematic trait in a learner:
    "She talks when she should listen and is strongly defensive from the start. Remember respect is earned and never given. By having such a large social media presence, you set yourself up for added criticism and comment, silence your critics through action and decisions, not words."

    I'm not teaching in the outdoor realm, but am a nurse and often teach new nurses. New hires coming through an ICU setting that are overly confident, won't listen to feedback, and think they know it all on the first day are SCARY! They are almost guaranteed to be the ones that make the biggest mistakes. Absolutely yes, respect is earned and not given... you can literally kill someone if you fuck up as a nurse, so you don't pass orientation until we can be certain you are safe and will ask for help if you don't know how to do something. This is not all that different than the decision making required to pass an Avi 3 class. I am a strong, outspoken, opinionated woman, but I read her instructor critique as a legitimate concern. The reason she took the class was to learn, but it sounds pretty clear that she wasn't being a good learner, male or female. In the nursing realm, it's the men I have the most issue with this personality trait, but gender aside, it doesn't make it any less dangerous. Also, give some respect to guides. The training and certifications required to be a guide are difficult and take a huge amount of time and experience to accomplish. Just because she has the skiing skills to ski with guide doesn't put her on the same knowledge base as a guide. That's no disrespect to CG, it's just a fact. I ski and climb with guide friends, and would never presume to be equal to them in terms of overall knowledge just because in some arenas I may have the skill to keep up.

    The second part of the critique makes sense to me as well. As everyone has said before, having a large media presence lends itself to criticism and trolls. That does not mean that criticism and trolling are acceptable, but the more attention you give to trolls the more power they hold, and the more they have to gain from their shitty actions. I'd wager that 99% of the people on this thread, or in the world that know who CG is would not have wasted time disputing her accomplishment... but now here we are wondering about it. No benefit has come from bringing light the handful of assholes questioning. I don't doubt that Angel Collinson has trolls and people who give her shit all the time. Rather than waste time giving the trolls power and casting doubt, she just skis like a badass and does her thing. Her accomplishments speak for themselves, and anyone who disputes it can suck it. To each their own I suppose, but I feel like in the long run this just invites more feedback, trolling, and criticism.
    Well spoken, er written.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpkdz View Post
    I feel like this bit of critique from Avi class is something I encounter a lot in the teaching environment, and that is a very problematic trait in a learner:
    "She talks when she should listen and is strongly defensive from the start. Remember respect is earned and never given. By having such a large social media presence, you set yourself up for added criticism and comment, silence your critics through action and decisions, not words."

    I'm not teaching in the outdoor realm, but am a nurse and often teach new nurses. New hires coming through an ICU setting that are overly confident, won't listen to feedback, and think they know it all on the first day are SCARY! They are almost guaranteed to be the ones that make the biggest mistakes. Absolutely yes, respect is earned and not given... you can literally kill someone if you fuck up as a nurse, so you don't pass orientation until we can be certain you are safe and will ask for help if you don't know how to do something. This is not all that different than the decision making required to pass an Avi 3 class. I am a strong, outspoken, opinionated woman, but I read her instructor critique as a legitimate concern. The reason she took the class was to learn, but it sounds pretty clear that she wasn't being a good learner, male or female. In the nursing realm, it's the men I have the most issue with this personality trait, but gender aside, it doesn't make it any less dangerous. Also, give some respect to guides. The training and certifications required to be a guide are difficult and take a huge amount of time and experience to accomplish. Just because she has the skiing skills to ski with guide doesn't put her on the same knowledge base as a guide. That's no disrespect to CG, it's just a fact. I ski and climb with guide friends, and would never presume to be equal to them in terms of overall knowledge just because in some arenas I may have the skill to keep up.

    The second part of the critique makes sense to me as well. As everyone has said before, having a large media presence lends itself to criticism and trolls. That does not mean that criticism and trolling are acceptable, but the more attention you give to trolls the more power they hold, and the more they have to gain from their shitty actions. I'd wager that 99% of the people on this thread, or in the world that know who CG is would not have wasted time disputing her accomplishment... but now here we are wondering about it. No benefit has come from bringing light the handful of assholes questioning. I don't doubt that Angel Collinson has trolls and people who give her shit all the time. Rather than waste time giving the trolls power and casting doubt, she just skis like a badass and does her thing. Her accomplishments speak for themselves, and anyone who disputes it can suck it. To each their own I suppose, but I feel like in the long run this just invites more feedback, trolling, and criticism.
    You are right about your assessment of people who think they know it all, but that is not how I read that comment.

    An instructor trying to tell someone why they failed would not be worded that way. This sounds a lot more like everyone else who is telling her to just shut up and ski.

    Also notable is the total lack of criticism of the community members who are trolling her. Comments above that blame her for opening herself up to it are classic victim blaming. You know what would stop the trolling? If the assholes who can’t handle seeing a successful woman would just shut the fuck up and move on with their lives.

  16. #241
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    I think you just highlighted the crux of the problem, lots of people think it is a stretch to consider her a victim in this case. We are talking about a luxury lifestyle pursuit here.

    Along the lines of its kinda preposterous for snowboarders to be victims when Alta says no admittance.
    Live Free or Die

  17. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    Also notable is the total lack of criticism of the community members who are trolling her. Comments above that blame her for opening herself up to it are classic victim blaming. You know what would stop the trolling? If the assholes who can’t handle seeing a successful woman would just shut the fuck up and move on with their lives.
    Disagree.. it doesn't have all that much to do with gender. I agree that woman have a more difficult time in general, but trolling happens to all people in the public eye, male or female. It is a choice to put yourself out there, to have an instagram following of 150,000, and to make your living being a "public figure" or "pro". There are plenty of exceedingly accomplished athletes of both genders that don't choose to make their living off of their image and lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with either choice, it's your life, but if you choose the public life, don't be surprised by what comes along with it. Just as a professional model will get judged by their looks, a professional athlete is going to get judged by their skill. You are inviting scrutiny because you feel you measure up to the best of the best. Being in the public eye provokes ridicule that is both legitimate and illegitimate. While the bullshit sucks and isn't right, it doesn't discriminate... everyone experiences it. Spending significant amounts of time and energy acting surprised and offended that this is the reality of the public game only provokes more ridicule. If you consider CG the victim of her own lifestyle choice, then I guess every public figure is a victim.
    Last edited by lpkdz; 06-04-2018 at 11:37 AM.
    So hot right now

  18. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    You are right about your assessment of people who think they know it all, but that is not how I read that comment.

    An instructor trying to tell someone why they failed would not be worded that way. This sounds a lot more like everyone else who is telling her to just shut up and ski.

    Also notable is the total lack of criticism of the community members who are trolling her. Comments above that blame her for opening herself up to it are classic victim blaming. You know what would stop the trolling? If the assholes who can’t handle seeing a successful woman would just shut the fuck up and move on with their lives.
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  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeedashbo View Post
    I just want to smell her hair

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using TGR Forums mobile app
    botanical

  20. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpkdz View Post
    Disagree.. it doesn't have all that much to do with gender. I agree that woman have a more difficult time in general, but trolling happens to all people in the public eye, male or female. It is a choice to put yourself out there, to have an instagram following of 150,000, and to make your living being a "public figure" or "pro". There are plenty of exceedingly accomplished athletes of both genders that don't choose to make their living off of their image and lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with either choice, it's your life, but if you choose the public life, don't be surprised by what comes along with it. Just as a professional model will get judged by their looks, a professional athlete is going to get judged by their skill. You are inviting scrutiny because you feel you measure up to the best of the best. Being in the public eye provokes ridicule that is both legitimate and illegitimate. While the bullshit sucks and isn't right, it doesn't discriminate... everyone experiences it. Spending significant amounts of time and energy acting surprised and offended that this is the reality of the public game only provokes more ridicule. If you consider CG the victim of her own lifestyle choice, then I guess every public figure is a victim.
    This is the crux of the issue. Well said.

  21. #246
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    ^^^^
    Yes.

    I think that we can all agree that there anyone who trolls her blog is an a-hole and that in particular anyone who starts stalking her and calling her phone and issuing insults and threats is a total ahole who should be prosecuted if possible.

    But this feedback from a failed level 3 class, I'm not sure whether it meets a level to be called sex based criticism or unfair or not based on the lack of broader information. The don't use a guide thing, may be unfair or not, if its an explicit reason for failing her them probably not appropriate, but if its intended and delivered as advice for how she can get better and knowledgable enough to pass the course then maybe it is - even if her use of guides is overstated. But we don't know because she just pulled those quotes out of whatever context they were in and posted in the middle of her article.

    And YES the best way to slay the trolls is just to expect X% of posters are ahole trolls and ignore them. Expecting that 100% of people posting in a more or less defacto anonymous environment will be nice is naive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  22. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    You are right about your assessment of people who think they know it all, but that is not how I read that comment.

    An instructor trying to tell someone why they failed would not be worded that way. This sounds a lot more like everyone else who is telling her to just shut up and ski.

    Also notable is the total lack of criticism of the community members who are trolling her. Comments above that blame her for opening herself up to it are classic victim blaming. You know what would stop the trolling? If the assholes who can’t handle seeing a successful woman would just shut the fuck up and move on with their lives.
    Yep.

  23. #248
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    the part about not using guides all the time seems like genuinely good advice as far as her professional development goes. Maybe CG was not able to convey through her blog post the unprofessional (?) nature in which it was delivered?

    The thing about this social media economy is that it runs on likes, views, and followers. No need to anonymously leave hateful messages, just ignore her if you don't like her, and she will cease to have an "influence" in your life. Simple.

    We are wasting hours of our time consuming content produced by amateurs and trolls instead of that which has been vetted by publishers or producers with money on the line.

  24. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    Also notable is the total lack of criticism of the community members who are trolling her. Comments above that blame her for opening herself up to it are classic victim blaming. You know what would stop the trolling? If the assholes who can’t handle seeing a successful woman would just shut the fuck up and move on with their lives.
    There's a difference between victim blaming and pointing out the entirely predictable consequences of someone's actions.

    Is it CG's fault that assholes exist on the internet? Of course not.

    Should CG have known that, as a public figure on the internet, she would almost certainly incur some negative attention at some point in her career? Yes, absolutely. Just like literally ever other public figure, regardless of gender, occupation, etc. It just comes with the territory.

    We can all sit around and talk about how everyone on the internet should be nice and anonymous trolls are the problem. Which is true, and while we're at it, I'd like peace on earth, an unlimited supply of free energy, and for everyone to always hang a new toilet paper roll with the paper facing out.

  25. #250
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    We are wasting hours of our time consuming content produced by amateurs and trolls instead of that which has been vetted by publishers or producers with money on the line.
    I talk about this all the time. Everybody's an expert. Sure.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

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