USFS proposed rule to revamp eMTB access (Sept. 2020)

[Mudfoot]

"we propose a rule change to a rule that we don't enforce to begin with." -FS

I see ebikes all over these days. No one is out there actively enforcing ebikes bans on certain trails, I've heard of no one getting issued a ticket for riding an ebike on a trail.

Who is funding enforcement?

Does anybody here have first hand knowledge of an e-biker actually getting fined? I see them all over the trails and when I say something about them not being allowed they fake like they didn't know and just keep riding. Rules without enforcement are meaningless.

It's the other Golden Rule: The guy with the gold makes the rules. The industry lobby has gotten very powerful. On a recent new bike trail project in Silverton, CO on BLM land (which included a Travel Management Plan) when the project got to the finish line the Feds threw in the allowance of e-bikes, something that was not asked for by the applicant. Regardless of the "rules" e-bikes are the future and are about to be just classified as "bikes" for everything.

[grinch]

That estimate if accurate represents 50-70% increase in speed. Keep in mind that you bought that bike to make it easier to climb. I am no Hinault or Armstrong but I enjoy climbing and 6-8 MPH is a very good pace when climbing on "steeper more raw backcountry trails"




And on a logging road your estimate is also about 50-70% faster than the average P-biker.

But that's OK because they have 2 wheels and are really the same.


Luv ya

my bad, *That was my speed the other day 6-8mph but the average was slower so an increase of 2-3mph. Logging roads im 18mph max on the flat(below limiter). Its not all rocks and roots but of course you'd take the absolute worse case scenerio because bias
I answered/corrected all eluder's false statements. His brevity and paragraphs=my brebity and paragraphs
Also, suck it. "It" = the facts jax

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[grinch]

Word

Brevity and paragraph spacing would probably help some people get their point across better.

50-70% faster and frequently an inexperienced user. What could go wrong?

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Grinch needs 50-70% more words to get his point across.

Maybe if you added a bunch more words, your point would be better too. You should try it.

TLDR

Im like the daniel dale(also canadian) fact checking trump. Is a bigly job.

You guys would be deebflection with the whataboutisms.

In what thread on the tgrz do people not get called out for their wild innacuracies? These anti emtb threads , with their mass trail closure forecasting and nass collisions, arent based on any real facts or incidents and draw on zero references to whats happening in other countries.
Its like cementhead telling us, in the trump thread, the john durham investigation will be released soon and they'll lock up the email lady, O, brennan , and uncover the hollywood child porn cabal eating pizza in the basement of the real location. The only difference is the cementheads out number the rationsl thinking fact based responder(s)
Congratulations on forming your anti eeb cult. Keep sipping that gatorade.

Also, a reminder that they'll be everywhere do you better come up with a plan. A rational plan but that might be a bridge too far for cultlife #branchEvidians


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[buttahflake]

I’m looking forward to getting a moped, 5-6 years down the road, they are gonna be dialed in.

[toast2266]

It's the other Golden Rule: The guy with the gold makes the rules. The industry lobby has gotten very powerful. On a recent new bike trail project in Silverton, CO on BLM land (which included a Travel Management Plan) when the project got to the finish line the Feds threw in the allowance of e-bikes, something that was not asked for by the applicant. Regardless of the "rules" e-bikes are the future and are about to be just classified as "bikes" for everything.

BLM allows ebikes anywhere pedal bikes are allowed. I'd bet they threw in the allowance at the last minute because the BLM rule on ebikes just came down last summer.

Ebikes don't have a political lobby to speak of. Their lobbyist is IMBA, as much as anything. And having lots of money to throw at lobbying doesn't equal access - just ask Honda / Kawasaki / Suzuki / the blue ribbon coalition.

[livefreerdie]

BLM hasn't released their proposed rule change yet, so any access they grant during travel planning is questionable.

[grinch]

BLM. It begs the comparison.
ELM. Eeb lives matter!! We're being persecuted! Our non violent civil disobediance is merely riding a trail not harming anyone.

Emtb sales in germany surpassed mtb sales last year. Id guess theyre 60+% of sales this year. Similar in italy. Not far behind is france and the uk. Aus and NZ are getting there. You no what land mass would be not far behind all that? Probably 3 years max for emtb sales to surpass mtb sales in N america.
At 4 years the penny farthing mtb's will be seen as a nuisance. "Theyre always blocking the trails!!"
"Ban them!!"
You could make PFLM t shirts. Maybe channel your outrage into forming a club. Id suggest "the sierra mtb club". Nice ring to it!
stravaevan is the mike vandeman of mtb and pinkdink(aka redsnapper) can double down on the environmental issues as the monica craver of mtb, obviously.

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[Bunion 2020]

BLM=Bureau of Livestock and Mining you dumb-shit: edit to add;.

[grinch]

Thanks sunshine

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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Grinch has the facts, all you fuckers shut up!


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[grinch]

^^^ this. Bump

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[rod9301]

Nothing against horses here. Nice to see some smokin cowgirls on the trail. To each their own.
I dont see where you get the "enormous dork" thing. Always a better look to have a dialed bike E or mtb than a mix match of pricey parts on an old bike......with probably a 150mm stem.
Once again for the bizillionth time. Research bro. I burn more calories and gain more fitness on the eeb. Mtb inheretantly involves intervals. You want to ride trail on an mtb , youre doing intervals. Interval riding requires rest and days off. With the eeb ill ride days on end at endurance pace and put in an interval when i want. I may burn more calories in a day on the mtb but ill end up taking a day or 2 off. In a week on the eeb ill burn more on the emtb than the mtb, not to mention more vert , jumps and turns. I couldnt give af about training but i know it allows me to ride more and increase fitness so i can ride more. I may not gain as much explosive power or climbing speed but im not racing. I could do endurance pace to gain endurance fitness on a road bike but road bikes suck and id rather ride my endurance pace days on dirt and use the mode selector to keep me from interval or sprint zone to avoid burning out. No training schedule, just listen to my legs. Feel like pushing i take the mtb and it ends with some intervals because its mtb. Feel like laps or exploring its the emtb because endurance pace means i can ride long and recover faster to ride the next day. You need to compile the facts before you just throw out your impressions all willy nilly

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True.
I ride now 6 days a week, and on a180 mm front and rear, and a lot more downhill.

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[MagnificentUnicorn]

^^^ this. Bump

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You’re like the Stephen Miller of Canada.


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[rod9301]

I am not trying to say ebiking should be banned or anything but it’s just not the same sport, if it was they wouldn't exist. I think they are fun and have a place just so that’s clear and some of that place includes were traditional bikes are allowed. Currently I feel like local land managers should make the call, although some are inept a blanket law will only hurt everyone at stake here. There are trails locally that allow bikes but no moto that I think it makes sense to allow them but there are also multi use trails close to town that I think are a bad Idea and would only lead to bikes as a whole being banned.

Easier access and more users aren’t always a good thing, I totally understand the entitled argument, but a line has to be drawn somewhere doesn’t it? You may be safe on your ebike but not even all class 1 ebikes are the same, some have unpredictable thrust and an unskilled rider could cause some damage on a heavy bike easily. Just because you can control your ebike that doesn’t mean every user can, just because yours is refined and manageable doesn’t mean all on the market are, yes these are broad statements that could be extrapolated to traditional bikes but the whole purpose of ebikes is to broaden the access which intern brings in unexperienced riders potentially at speeds they shouldn’t be. All I am saying is there isn’t a simple answer and in the end its most likely all bikers, ebikers included are going to get screwed if we don’t do this in an intelligent and thought out manner.

There is a simple answer.
Look at Europe where all class 1 are considered the same as regular mountain bikes.

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[grinch]

You’re like the Stephen Miller of Canada.


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Your metaphors are weak bruh. Work on that please. Maybe use mine as a template

There is a simple answer.
Look at Europe where all class 1 are considered the same as regular mountain bikes.

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Bingo!

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[grinch]

True.
I ride now 6 days a week, and on a180 mm front and rear, and a lot more downhill.

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Awesome! Keeps you on point for bagging those couloirs.
Its nice to be able to drag the extra travel for plsy time on every down. Mine is 180f/165rcoil

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[Bunion 2020]

There is a simple answer.
Look at Europe where all class 1 are considered the same as regular mountain bikes.

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Great, seriously. As soon as the USFS, the BLM and all the other State parks and areas issue an official policy that Class-1 E-bikes are considered the same as regular bikes then I expect to see E-bikes sharing the non-motorized trails I ride currently.

At that time.

In the meantime they really should be following the rules. Call me old fashioned but a lot of the problems in this modern world stem from people thinking that rules don't apply to them.

Edit to add: I would probably prefer that the Class-1s are treated as the same as P-bikes if only because if the USFS or BLM or other agencies have to deal with telling the difference between P-bikes and E-bikes their knee jerk may be to just say no bikes on some trails.

So what happens when it comes to identifying the differences between a C1 from a C2 or C3?

[rod9301]

Great, seriously. As soon as the USFS, the BLM and all the other State parks and areas issue an official policy that Class-1 E-bikes are considered the same as regular bikes then I expect to see E-bikes sharing the non-motorized trails I ride currently.

At that time.

In the meantime they really should be following the rules. Call me old fashioned but a lot of the problems in this modern world stem from people thinking that rules don't apply to them.

Edit to add: I would probably prefer that the Class-1s are treated as the same as P-bikes if only because if the USFS or BLM or other agencies have to deal with telling the difference between P-bikes and E-bikes their knee jerk may be to just say no bikes on some trails.

So what happens when it comes to identifying the differences between a C1 from a C2 or C3?

Really, are you that law abiding?

Hard to believe you never rode an illegal trail.

You must be the only one in the US.

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[rod9301]

Awesome! Keeps you on point for bagging those couloirs.
Its nice to be able to drag the extra travel for plsy time on every down. Mine is 180f/165rcoil

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Yeah, used to be long travel is for lift served only.

And I'm heading back to France in December for more couloirs.

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[Bunion 2020]

Really, are you that law abiding?

Hard to believe you never rode an illegal trail.

You must be the only one in the US.

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Yeah, it my failing that I try to follow rules. Too bad there are so many fucking assholes in this world who share your view.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Can we just knock people over if we see them riding their mopeds on non-motorized trails? Certainly we could laugh them away.

[grinch]

Yeah, it my failing that I try to follow rules. Too bad there are so many fucking assholes in this world who share your view.

Once upon a time they were all illegal. We were such rebels when you were at choir practice

Can we just knock people over if we see them riding their mopeds on non-motorized trails? Certainly we could laugh them away.

Certainly not as badass as the stuckmonster though

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[rippling over canyons]

They should be managed as if they are motorized cycles. So, they should be allowed on trails open to motorized use.

[climberevan]

Is there a way to ignore Grinch but only in threads that are related to e-bikes? This has the potential to be a good and useful discussion without him cunting it up. Absent selective ignore, I guess I'll just have to do a total ignore for the time being.

[Bunion 2020]

Once upon a time they were all illegal. We were such rebels when you were at choir practice.

They what were all illegal? Do you ever express yourself as if you didn't have a head injury?