Dog has a torn ACL- What to do?

[hutash]

I disagree. No incentive to mill a standard golden. Golden creams are milled like crazy

I don't really care if you agree or not, you are wrong. Cheap dogs are puppy milled in much higher numbers then expensive breeds. I doubt you could easily find a swissie or Berner from a mill, but goldens, labs, poodles and such can readily be found in pet shops from puppy mills. I see it all the time.

Stick to wanking, although I doubt you are even good at that.

[garyfromterrace]

Maisie blew her ACL. I'm devastated and we obviously need to get her knee fixed. The vet we have doesn't do the high end repairs (he suggested he'll repair older dogs with a "less cadillac" procedure but with Maisie he suggested the "cadillac" procedure which he said entails a plate.
Is that what TPLO surgical repair entails? (edit, I googled it and it appears so)

The vet didn't have an MRI machine just an x-ray and made the diagnosis after manipulating the leg & discovering some looseness in the left rear knee and he suggested there was some swelling. He's going to refer me to a vet in Calgary or Kelowna to get this done, should I also be getting an MRI done at the place I get referred to? Could that MRI dictate whether or not they do surgery?

I noted Hutash also suggested endoscopy when they do the procedure. How long do they keep the dog in the clinic after surgery? Is it overnight or multi-day?

Masie stats:
- 14 months old
- uber athletic (50lbs), has been in skin trails and on mtn bike trails since a pup.
- 1/2 Catahoula; 1/4 border collie; 1/4 white shepherd
It's been 3 weeks since the injury and a week since I saw the vet and got some anti-inflammatory. She still picks the left leg up very occasionally (like 1 time out of 20) going down stairs, however she seems to run and walk OK on it (though she's confined mostly to the leash now). Is this normal 3 weeks post injury?


Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for your info in advance if you pipe in.

[detrusor]

We’ve had tplo done on our dogs, results were excellent. The only issue is the incredibly high occurrence of ACL on the other knee within a year.


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[2bjenny]

Rosie had her tplo about the same age as Masie. We didn’t get an mri.
I could have taken her to Sun Valley to the “expert” for the surgery, but our vet had been trained by the expert in SV and did a couple of them a month, plus regular refresher training from the SV vet. I felt comfortable with him performing the procedure. He would have happily referred us or sent us to SV if there had been any complicating issues. Saved us a couple hundred bucks and not having to travel 3 hrs each way. Luckily, I was able to time Rosie’s surgery with when I had to be out of town for a week, so the extra few days kenneling at the vet really helped me. She was ok to walk up and down steps by then to go outside to potty.

The key is keeping them quiet for 8 weeks to give everything time to heal. Even after 8 weeks, activity needs to be slowly increased, but the vet will tell you all of that. Rosie was an excellent patient, probably because inside the house she’s usually a super chill, lazy lab.

If I remember, Rosie would sometime run/walk ok and other times still carry her leg. It was a few weeks before we had her surgery, maybe even over a month. Sometimes she would seem fine, but then she’d start favoring it again. Post surgery, Rosie is now 7.5 yrs, active 70lb lab, and she hasn’t blown the other yet. (Knock on wood). There’s been no issues with the leg she had the surgery on.

I can’t stress how important the recovery is and keeping them quiet, no jumping, running, etc. My neighbor’s dog had tplo surgery this summer. They didn’t do any after care, let him run around loose just a few days after, etc. The dog still runs around with a significant limp and carries his hind leg. They might as well have not done anything and just lit $2300 on fire.

[muted reborn]

I can’t stress how important the recovery is and keeping them quiet, no jumping, running, etc.

I have very fond memories of leashing up my wife's dog at -5 to -10 degrees in knee deep snow at 3 in the morning, waiting forever the dog to poop - who is a shy pooper and never has shat on a leash before his ACL surgery. He's territorial so he charges at any sound within a few miles away, the bastard.

Normally he would poop mid-day, but again, he never shat on a leash before so he held it in until it was cold, deep and i was asleep. Wife was pregnant so I couldn't kick her out of bed to do it.

For his second blown ACL I just set the timer for 10 minutes and let him out alone and risked it all. Nothing happened luckily.

[Bosco]

^^^^ It's a bummer about the ACL, I had the same thing happen to my little girl Bryce when she was about 8. I took the rest and easy route rather than the repair for 3K, and she did very good, but now she's blind at 13.

[muted reborn]

^^^^ It's a bummer about the ACL, I had the same thing happen to my little girl Bryce when she was about 8. I took the rest and easy route rather than the repair for 3K, and she did very good, but now she's blind at 13.

There you go. You can save $3k+ now but make your dog go blind later. Choose wisely.

[MarcusBrody]

I had my dog go through this a year ago. She first hurt her ACL in the summer. We rested for months. She was a crazy dingo so eventually finished off the tear. She was 7-8. Our vet was in favor of the lateral suture approach (the less cadillac). I did a lot of research and it seems that TPLO is probably slightly better, but the delta is smaller with modern lateral suture techniques. I wasn't super pleased with the result. Something stretched/didn't hold correctly and there a small amount of movement was allowed where it shouldn't have been. The vet claimed that it was only the second time there had been any similar problems and the first since they had introduced a new suture type years ago, but I have no idea how true that was. He also offered to redo it free of charge, but again we opted to see what happened with a conservative approach first as we really wanted to avoid putting our dog through another recovery. She never really completely got over it though and after active days she would be limping. She passed away unexpectedly from a brain tumor before we could have it redone, though. It was a shit year of dog ownership.

[Magic Carpet]

3 ACL tears/surgeries in the past 12 months between 2 rescue labs.
Younger dog after injury initially compensated well but over time began protecting the leg more and more and surgery became inevitable. She is athletic (for a lab) and has done well after surgery but the recovery period is a hassle.
Older dog tore both within less than a year. He could barely walk after each tear, his legs were noticeably unstable. It took him longer to recover since he quickly deconditioned but is now doing very well.
Our pet insurance no longer likes us.
There is very little independent data on outcomes after surgery (none really), but for a young, big and active dog it seems that arthritis is inevitable without surgery. My dogs are older and I considered conservative treatment but they clearly had pain and instability.

[garyfromterrace]

Thanks very much for the info guys. 2bjenny suggested a few days post surgery kenneling at the vet. Is that standard procedure when doing the TPLO procedure?
I mean, hell if Maisie has to stay at the vet a couple of days, and I'm in Cowtown anyway may as well bring the ski gear and hit up Louise for a day or two (you know, make lemonade).

[2bjenny]

Thanks very much for the info guys. 2bjenny suggested a few days post surgery kenneling at the vet. Is that standard procedure when doing the TPLO procedure?
I mean, hell if Maisie has to stay at the vet a couple of days, and I'm in Cowtown anyway may as well bring the ski gear and hit up Louise for a day or two (you know, make lemonade).

No, I don’t think that’s normal, it just happened to be super convenient. Lol.

[garyfromterrace]

^^ Hey, nice when shit works! haha.
OK back to me freaking out..

So Maisie has been a trail dog (ski and bike) all her life, never on a leash much at all, played hard with pretty much every dog she's met.
- So how do you keep a high energy dog (used to running at least a couple of hours a day on trails or snow) occupied? I mean even playing tug of war with her chew toys has her sort of using her back legs a bit. What sort of things can you do that are fun for her but zero impact on her tweaked leg? She sucks at scrabble.
- 2bjenny you mentioned ramping her recovery up slowly, do they put a cast on the leg? How did you keep your doggie entertained during the first few weeks (where I'm guessing they aren't allowed to to very much other than pee and poo).

[Magic Carpet]

This will give you an idea for the timeline of recovery.
https://www.medvetforpets.com/wp-con...o_r1305_wm.pdf

I found it very difficult to keep them so restrained. And your dog will fool you into thinking she is ready to do more.

[garyfromterrace]

Thanks Magic, that helps. It was quite detailed. Still wondering how I can keep her mentally occupied after surgery (my god, she's going to have to basically live in a cage for at least a week after surgery).

[PNWbrit]

Sorry to hear about Masie G.

Talk to your vet about tranquilizers. Had luck with them after Gus had big surgeries and recently after Sam's deballing.

[MarcusBrody]

Sorry to hear about Masie G.

Talk to your vet about tranquilizers. Had luck with them after Gus had big surgeries and recently after Sam's deballing.

Yep, we built an open topped crate with baby gates and put it beside our couch so our dog was near us. We got her some new toys and had different food favorites on hand. And maybe 5 days after surgery, we went back for tranquilizers. Once the initial anesthesia/shock wore off, she was just not at all thrilled to be cooped up. We used the tranquilizers for most of the rest of the full containment period. Once she could move around a little bit, she was a bit better, but she did end up making her recovery worse multiple times by flying after reflected patches of light.

[2bjenny]

Rosie was kenneled during the day while I was at work - but this was normal for her, she was a chewer and couldn’t be trusted alone for more than 10 min until she was two. Luckily, she’s really chill inside, so tranqs were not needed. Keeping her on leash was critical. The second she thought she was off, she would try to take off with the zoomies. Several 15 minute walks throughout the day once allowed was critical.

Good luck with Masie. It’s a long process. At least it’s not both! A friend of mine that has an Anatolian shepherd ended up needing both legs done and they opted to do them same time this summer because she was not going to deal with the rehab twice.

[garyfromterrace]

Sorry to hear about Masie G.

Talk to your vet about tranquilizers. Had luck with them after Gus had big surgeries and recently after Sam's deballing.

Yeah, good one Brit, thanks. I'm a bit devastated. And my poor little girl just doesn't understand why we're not in the woods everyday chasing rocks and sticks. This shit's tough.

Yep, we built an open topped crate with baby gates and put it beside our couch so our dog was near us. We got her some new toys and had different food favorites on hand. And maybe 5 days after surgery, we went back for tranquilizers. Once the initial anesthesia/shock wore off, she was just not at all thrilled to be cooped up. We used the tranquilizers for most of the rest of the full containment period. Once she could move around a little bit, she was a bit better, but she did end up making her recovery worse multiple times by flying after reflected patches of light.

Thanks for that Marcus, appreciate the beta.

Rosie was kenneled during the day while I was at work - but this was normal for her, she was a chewer and couldn’t be trusted alone for more than 10 min until she was two. Luckily, she’s really chill inside, so tranqs were not needed. Keeping her on leash was critical. The second she thought she was off, she would try to take off with the zoomies. Several 15 minute walks throughout the day once allowed was critical.

Good luck with Masie. It’s a long process. At least it’s not both! A friend of mine that has an Anatolian shepherd ended up needing both legs done and they opted to do them same time this summer because she was not going to deal with the rehab twice.

Thanks for the info and the wishes man. And good to know it could be worse oy vey.

[JayPowHound]

Sorry, new to this thread but want to share our experience for the collective.

Our 12 yo Samoyed Bentley (my profile) busted both rear ACLs in his latter years. He had already had 3 surgeries for abdominal obstructions cuz he was dumb and liked to eat my stinky socks and the kids / cats toys.

We decided we didn't want to subject him to more surgeries late in his life. He could no longer run, but was a happy pup and searched out shit he shouldn't eat until his last day.

Its obviously your families choice re:surgery. FWIW we weighed the surgery history vs age vs enjoyable life span.

We never fixed the ACLs. Poor dog had been under the knife enough already.

He lived out his days happy and begging for wet food (which he never had until 11+) all day.

Such a good dog. I miss him to this day.