ON3P SKIS Discussion

[N1CK.]

pfftt, those aren't supergoats.
it looks like photoshop to me. I know because I've seen a few shops in my time ....

[Sessiøn]

SG stoke

Black on black, on slate black.

[shroom]

didn’t kanye say that?

[tuco]

SG stoke

Could you record a video of the birthing of my SuperGoats from start to finish? I'm such a proud parent!
Thanks

[Bobcat Sig]

It's not going to change a ski I hate into a ski I love, but I can absolutely feel a 1cm change in mount point and it can absolutely affect my experience on a ski.

Some people just aren't sensitive to mount point though, nothing wrong with that. Personally I can't feel ramp angle in bindings at all, and some people on here report massive differences when they change their ramp angles by a few mm. Like all things, YMMV.

Agreed. On my 4FRNT Renegades, they had the forward most mount. I hated it since I ski with my hands up and the shins forward. I kept going over the bars when I tried to drive the ski in the deep stuff. I had me beatering all over the place one day on some heli bumps. I want to the rear-most mount and it's much, much better.

[Reformed]

I've had the Steeple 108s (184s) out in a wide enough range of conditions to be starting to get a decent feel for them. So far the biggest surprise for me is their grip and performance on hardpack. I was A/B-ing them against my Deathwishes (190s) today (not apples to apples due to boots - DWs being driven by FT Seths, Steeples by Maestrale RS) and was surprised to find the Steeples offering more grip, a damper, quieter ride and a much smoother feel on edge. As long as you have some room and keep some pressure on the tips the Steeples will go plenty fast and feel plenty solid on edge on firm. They wouldn't be my first choice to rip groomers all day, but I've been on WAY worse options. A nod to the Tecton is in order here as well. Skied hard inbounds all day today and didn't notice it except for the lack of weight on the chair. So far very good!
In pow and crud the Steeples seemed to get bounced around less than the DW and allowed me to drive the tips harder without hooking/stuffing. The boots started to be the bigger difference here, as the Maestrales are a little light for inbounds crud nuking and folded a number of times.
I still need to get the Steeples into some non-wind or temp molested pow, but so far they seem like they float more consistently than the DW and are more tolerant of tip pressure and bigger turns. I'm not sure about looseness/slarveability yet, as the pow that I've been in so far has been wind-pressed or slightly upside down - not light blower that lends itself to slashes and drifted turns. I'll update this thread as I go, but I'm impressed so far!

[undertow2]

Agreed. On my 4FRNT Renegades, they had the forward most mount. I hated it since I ski with my hands up and the shins forward. I kept going over the bars when I tried to drive the ski in the deep stuff. I had me beatering all over the place one day on some heli bumps. I want to the rear-most mount and it's much, much better.

Bob, I also have the 196 Renegade and a fully rockered ski is way way more sensitive to mounting point than a ski with camber or flat camber. The Ren has a very small sweet spot, but when you found it the Ren is one of the best POW skis I have been on.

[theetruscan]

Have a pair of older K106s (mentioned just above). I've always taken them out on warmer, softer days. They're fun for tooling around the mountain in those conditions. Took them out yesterday, in fairly crusty snow. Whenever I got them really on edge, they tried to run away from each other. The Uphill ski wanted to make a much tighter turn than the downhill ski, found myself having to collapse my downhill knee to keep them together. I've got them mounted 2 cm behind the line. Is this the mount point? Do I need to detune/tune something? Or ...

[Ghetto.Creek]

Have a pair of older K106s (mentioned just above). I've always taken them out on warmer, softer days. They're fun for tooling around the mountain in those conditions. Took them out yesterday, in fairly crusty snow. Whenever I got them really on edge, they tried to run away from each other. The Uphill ski wanted to make a much tighter turn than the downhill ski, found myself having to collapse my downhill knee to keep them together. I've got them mounted 2 cm behind the line. Is this the mount point? Do I need to detune/tune something? Or ...

Don't think it's the mount point. I've had K106s and J114s and they did the same thing every now and then, usually at slower speeds. Usually happened on snow that is easy to bite into though. I was mounted around -2 from center on the kartels and about -3.5 on the Jeffs.

[Banh Mi]

Don't think it's the mount point. I've had K106s and J114s and they did the same thing every now and then, usually at slower speeds. Usually happened on snow that is easy to bite into though. I was mounted around -2 from center on the kartels and about -3.5 on the Jeffs.

My Jeff 114s did the same thing if they weren’t on soft snow. They hooked and tried to run away from each other. I thought it was the tune, bases high, mount point, all that mumbo jumbo.. I guess it wasn’t, and I just didn’t get along with the sidecut/taper?.. I honestly couldn’t even ski them if it wasnt soft. Only other ski I ever felt this same experience on were Moment Night Trains.

However in soft-ish snow, the Jeffs were great skis. None of that catchiness whatsoever. I was thinking about getting another pair of older Jeff 114s, or newer Kartels, and experiment with the mount point, but it seems like that didn’t change that for you.

Hmm, back to the drawing board for me. I know I can’t go wrong with a Wren 108..




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[theetruscan]

Yeah, but mine are older. Newer kartels might not do this.

[auvgeek]

Have a pair of older K106s (mentioned just above). I've always taken them out on warmer, softer days. They're fun for tooling around the mountain in those conditions. Took them out yesterday, in fairly crusty snow. Whenever I got them really on edge, they tried to run away from each other. The Uphill ski wanted to make a much tighter turn than the downhill ski, found myself having to collapse my downhill knee to keep them together. I've got them mounted 2 cm behind the line. Is this the mount point? Do I need to detune/tune something? Or ...

Haven't really experienced this. But on all my sksi, I keep a R and L ski and only really tune the inside edge. If I were you, I'd detune the outside else, especially past the taper.

[Banh Mi]

Yeah, but mine are older. Newer kartels might not do this.

What is it in the design, that causes this feeling for some of us? Many people love the Kartels, and say they are their favorite skis.

I detuned the crap out of my Jeffs. I spent at least an hour just running a hard stone against the taper points, and then the entire ski, but that didn’t help.

Is it the taper points causing hooking? I didn’t get this feeling skiing the heavily tapered Armada JJ (didnt like for other reasons), but I did when skiing the even more tapered Moment Night Train.

I am just wondering, so I can figure out if the Kartel 116s would work for me, without it being an expensove experiment.


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[uglymoney]

The original Billy Goats were famous for the uphill ski taking off. You could ski through it but my 16/17's are soooo much better.

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[Banh Mi]

The original Billy Goats were famous for the uphill ski taking off. You could ski through it but my 16/17's are soooo much better.

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Original as in before RES was perfected?

I find RES Billy Goats to be one of, if not the most predictable skis out there.

My 2015 Jeffreys were unrideable in anything but soft. I could barely get down the hill. I thought there was something wrong with them. I even brought them to a shop, told them what I was feeling, and they told me the skis were “railed”. After checking myself with a level bar, they were not railed at all, not even the slightest bit.... So i guess I just didnt get along with the ski. Too bad, because in any sort of soft snow they were very good.

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[uglymoney]

Original as in before RES was perfected?

I find RES Billy Goats to be one of, if not the most predictable skis out there.


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Yep. Original pre order. Fucking awesome skis but they were raw.

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[TexasGortex]

That’s how elliptical sidecut skis behave for me. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten along worse with a ski than the original K98. Great skis, until I tried to turn.

My wife loves her K98s, but and have very different skiing styles... Let’s just say I hold a much stronger edge than she does.

[Toddball]

So far I've liked the sidecut on my 15/16 Jeffrey 122s, although I guess I haven't tried them on really firm snow and they're mounted at +2.5cm from the dimple. Do these have the same sidecut as narrower Jeffreys/Kartels?

[Ghetto.Creek]

It's really not as bad as people say. It happens once in a while at slower speeds on snow where your edges are really hooked in.. on the firmer side. If you're on anything that your tails can slarve on or not going slow it's just fine


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[iamTRuTH]

The original Billy Goats were famous for the uphill ski taking off. You could ski through it but my 16/17's are soooo much better.

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My original Wrens did this also. I could never get them to work. No problems with my 2 other later generation pairs.

[iggyskier]

Assuming they are correctly detuned, uphill skis can pull when you overdrive it on an elliptical sidecut ski. You as essentially putting pressure on 2 different sidecuts if you aren't skiing them evenly. Mounting back will enhance that as you have more leverage to push into the tips. You will feel it on harder snow as the ski is going to grip more. Skiing them at recommended and more balanced (as designed) helps . If your style doesn't fit the skis, I'd look for a more directional ski.

The original Billy Goats were famous for the uphill ski taking off. You could ski through it but my 16/17's are soooo much better.

Similar issue there. Front sidecut on those skis was very tight. They are complete crap compared to even the 2013 RES design, let alone the new ones.

[iriponsnow]

That’s how elliptical sidecut skis behave for me. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten along worse with a ski than the original K98. Great skis, until I tried to turn.

My wife loves her K98s, but and have very different skiing styles... Let’s just say I hold a much stronger edge than she does.

^there’s your answer. The lower leg is aligned differently in men & women....this issue happens more to men due to the stance of the tibia being more “out” & pressuring the uphill ski.

Tip your upper cuff alignment out a degree or so & the problem will likely resolve. On wider skis, you really need an adjustable cuff.

[Banh Mi]

Ya, nothing was wrong with the ski, it was how I personally matched up with the ski design. I keep hearing how good the Kartel 116/108 is.. They are probably On3ps most popular skis too??






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[optics]

My 2015 Jeffreys were unrideable in anything but soft. I could barely get down the hill. I thought there was something wrong with them.
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I had this ski. Had this same issue.

I spent 3 consecutive days playing with different stance/weighting/pressure/etc.

In the end what worked (worked as in made it manageable, not as in made me love it) was - note that I am a PSIA level negative 16 with a whisky back anti-instructor - throwing out everything I have ever known about how to turn a ski, and basically standing straight up and using a shit ton of ankle to turn. Fun but felt really unnatural, so I sold them.

I am old and learned to ski on very straight skis. I think for that reason I get along great with wrens, and have struggled with other more jibby skis. From your posts I would not guess that you are old, but I would guess that you turn a ski like I learned to turn a ski.

I think this mostly jives with what Iggy posted above. And I just took delivery of some K108's, so going to give that whole 'get off the tips' thing another shot here...

[Banh Mi]

I need to retry a pair