The Nutrition Science thread

[iceman]

It's what the Irish guy wants the water to do so he can make his tea.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I bet the thai curry stir fry I made with peppers and tritip and panang curry and coconut milk served over Jasmin rise that I wasn't paleo. Fucking good though. Suck it

[Danno]

I bet the thai curry stir fry I made with peppers and tritip and panang curry and coconut milk served over Jasmin rise that I wasn't paleo. Fucking good though. Suck it

So being an ignorant dumbass in this thread wasn't getting enough attention for you, so you had to ramp up to being a dick too? How's that working out for you?

[GhostofSeasonsPast]

So being an ignorant dumbass in this thread wasn't getting enough attention for you, so you had to ramp up to being a dick too? How's that working out for you?

Lol.

I love fried chicken, myself, but I am conscious of the physique of the average customer at my favorite fried chicken place. Keeps the dietary feet firmly on the ground to see those waistlines.

[capulin overdrive]

Low carb tortillas aren't too bad. Smell like ass, and roll like thick paper, but end results were ok. Need to try frying them.

[stuckathuntermtn]

So being an ignorant dumbass in this thread wasn't getting enough attention for you, so you had to ramp up to being a dick too? How's that working out for you?

My belly is full and I don't bother anyone with bs dietary restrictions or pretentious fad diets, so I'd say it's working out great.

[Danno]

I'm beginning to think Creaky was right about you. So you're perfectly svelte and have zero health issues, good for you. If only we could all be blessed with your physique, knowledge of nutrition, and just general awesomeness. Sorry that we had to intrude on that awesomeness and bother you by having a thread dedicated to what is obviously our own shortcomings.

Just keep being a dick, it's obviously working for you.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I'm beginning to think Creaky was right about you. So you're perfectly svelte and have zero health issues, good for you. If only we could all be blessed with your physique, knowledge of nutrition, and just general awesomeness. Sorry that we had to intrude on that awesomeness and bother you by having a thread dedicated to what is obviously our own shortcomings.

Just keep being a dick, it's obviously working for you.

Puny human, creaky is always right about everything.
And my iron gut and balanced diet are probably my best features.

[Millsie1]

My wife and I am starting the keto way to eat. Yes we both have some weight to lose but we want to see what it will do for her cancer. She gets CT scans every 6 months now so should be a good test.

[Dantheman]

I'm adding cinnamon to tea as a way to make soymilk palatable at the end of the day, but that's a long story about bile and the inability to make stomach acid and I doubt it helps anyone else.

Damn, that sounds rough. My MIL had to have her gall bladder removed, but didn't follow the dietary recommendations afterwards and gave herself acute pancreatitis (her lipase levels were off the charts). Now she's restricted to a maximum of 10g of fat per meal and 20g total per day. Brutal.

I bet the thai curry stir fry I made with peppers and tritip and panang curry and coconut milk served over Jasmin rise that I wasn't paleo. Fucking good though. Suck it

Sounds pretty paleo besides the rice, and white rice is generally given a pass if you need to bulk up a meal with some easy calories. Not that you should be doing that, but some people need to.

So being an ignorant dumbass in this thread wasn't getting enough attention for you, so you had to ramp up to being a dick too? How's that working out for you?

Classic stuckie moronicity. Should have seen him tripling down on the stupid regarding MTB mud fenders recently.

I love fried chicken, myself, but I am conscious of the physique of the average customer at my favorite fried chicken place. Keeps the dietary feet firmly on the ground to see those waistlines.

"You know, what is good for ya? It's your own body can tell what's good for ya."

[Name Redacted]

Let's say that you consume close to zero carbs all day long, then have an IPA that is roughly 15g of carbs. Can you still accomplish Ketosis? Asking for a friend

[stuckathuntermtn]

Hey Dan, I might almost be coming around on mud guards and hosing off your bike. Not rice, though.
Now stay off my lawn, you damn kids!

[jono]

My wife and I am starting the keto way to eat. Yes we both have some weight to lose but we want to see what it will do for her cancer. She gets CT scans every 6 months now so should be a good test.

Just had my 1 year appt with my med onc and it occurred to me after that I never really discussed diet with him much: I never worried about ketosis, but sugar and alpha tocopherol were both terminated with extreme prejudice (PM me if you want to talk good vs bad Vitamin E's in entirely too much detail). Every little bit helps (if it actually helps...), you just never know how much credit to give what. Which seems to be one reason we don't hear more specific best practices for diet and such in the cancer context.

Damn, that sounds rough. My MIL had to have her gall bladder removed, but didn't follow the dietary recommendations afterwards and gave herself acute pancreatitis (her lipase levels were off the charts). Now she's restricted to a maximum of 10g of fat per meal and 20g total per day. Brutal.

Damn! I'm counting my blessings on this thing for sure. At least it's not pancreatitis--or English food! But the obvious fat connection has had me curious about bile production in ketosis. I have friends saying I should try IF now that I have 5 lbs to play with, but I'm really mostly just interested in getting my body to burn fat for fuel on long days.

[bagtagley]

How long before the piss strips cease being useful? I red somewhere you gotta stick a needle in yer arm to get good results.

No needles, just a little pin stick in the finger, like testing blood sugar. Volek/Phinney recommend against the pee strips because the measurements can be inaccurate/invalid. The advantage to the blood strips is that they're highly accurate and you can test throughout the day. Strips of some sort are the only way to reliably fine-tune your diet for keto. People respond differently to carbs, and those responses are different for varying carb sources. For instance, I could eat copious quantities of dark chocolate without any issues. A beer is probably fine, but the only way to know is to test. Your breakfast looks really carb heavy to me, so I'd test after eating that as well.

ETA: Total carbs and protein aren't the only consideration. Carbs and protein in a single sitting matter as well. If you've set your limit to 50g of carbs for the day, and you eat the entire 50g in a single meal, you're very likely going to stop producing ketone bodies.

[MontuckyFried]

Not picking on anybody here, but this thread being in the PR and all, just thought I'd inject a little humor I appreciated:

[iceman]

Well that's the thing about science, it tends to evolve as more shit comes to light. What are the long-term ramifications of a ketogenic diet in healthy people? It's somewhat difficult to say. Perhaps it's uniformly great for people, but perhaps not. Certainly we didn't evolve to live that way, fat is a valuable commodity in nature because it tends to be rare.

So I tend to try to follow a middle course with an eye towards what our distant ancestors might have eaten. Whole fruits, nuts, large intermittent servings of lean protein, fat as a bonus, minimal sugar, etc. Like the rest of nutrition science it's somewhat hazy but the Mediterranean diet has been practiced for a very long time by a lot of people and overall they tend to be pretty healthy so if I'm going to err its in that direction.

[bagtagley]

I tend to agree with that, ice. As mud said, I think keto is a valuable tool among many, but for the long-term, just avoiding shit food is a pretty good policy. I do think that "training" your body to be an efficient fat burner makes for an ideal scenario. That requires limiting carbs to some extent. Not necessarily by counting them, but more by relying on fruit and healthy starches, knowing what you're eating, and avoiding sugar and processed foods. And, not necessarily to the extreme that keto requires, but certainly far less than the average American eats. For me personally, fat isn't a bonus, though. I'm pretty active, and in the absence of large quantities of carbs, I rely on fat. Without it, things start to fall apart.

If anybody is looking for some less extreme options, Primal by Mark Sisson is very easy and approachable. Chris Kresser has his own version of "paleo" that's based on current research and overall health, rather than arbitrary restrictions. They're both shills to some extent - particularly Sisson, who is getting worse - but if you can ignore that, they provide a pretty good road map to what I consider to be healthy eating.

[Rideski]

I'm kinda bummed to be eliminating fructose. Juice drinks even diluted halfway with water are way more entertaining than water. But double whammy of fructose and sugar or aspartame and I guess I should cut back even though I don't have any apparent problems. All my blood work comes back good but dad had late onset diabetes so always a bit concerned about that.

Alpha tocopherol

Sure, I'm always down for some cliff notes when someone just studied something like that.

[Danno]

Almost 2 weeks in on this diet. Going well except that I have been sleeping like shit. Need to figure out if there are supplements that could help (ie am I missing something in my diet that's part of this issue).

[Rideski]

Why does some of the fat from bacon render, while some stays solid?
What are the health differences of the two?

Why does Pork fat (from a shoulder etc) wash off the dishes easier than beef or chicken?

Here's a halfway believable answer from reddit on the different parts of bacon.
I'm guessing I'll find that chicken and beef fat is comprised of differing amounts of saturated and non without the dividing line like bacon, resulting in different melting temperatures.

Fats are a type of lipid (which include oils and such) which are made from a glycerol head and a fatty acid tail. The fatty acid tail is mostly a chain of carbons attached to hydrogens. The structure of the fatty acids is divided into two classifications: saturated fats, and unsaturated fats.

Saturated fats have the carbon chain filled with hydrogens (each carbon is bonded to two other carbons and two hydrogens), so they form a straight line, and the molecules of the saturated fat can pack together well. Saturated fats tend to stay solid at high temperatures relative to unsaturated fats.

Unsaturated fats do not have each carbon filled with two hydrogens. Instead, the carbon will form a double bond with a neighboring carbon bond and bond with only one hydrogen, so there will be a kink in the fatty acid, making it angular (this is because the carbon's VSEPR structure would be trigonal planar). As a result, molecules of unsaturated fats do not pack together as well and stay liquid at higher temperatures relative to saturated fats.

Lipids do not dissolve in water (since they are nonpolar), so saturated fats can potentially clog arteries and blood vessels (more so than unsaturated fats, because they tend to be solid at higher temperatures).

EDIT: The health benefits are a bit more nuanced. There are also other reasons saturated fats are not healthy, compared to unsaturated fats. However, hydrogenating unsaturated fats may produce unsaturated fats with trans double bonds (transfat), which may contribute more to other health problems related to high fat consumption.

[Dantheman]

Certainly we didn't evolve to live that way, fat is a valuable commodity in nature because it tends to be rare.

Yes and no. Animals, even the lean wild variety, carry a lot of fat, and our ancestors ate a lot of animals. Cold-water marine animals have tons of fat. Concentrated fiber-less starches don't really exist in nature at all, either. Tubers and fruits were much more common food sources than grains, and the wild ancestors of potatoes, sweet potatoes, bananas etc. all contained far more fiber than their domesticated descendants. In grains, the endosperm content of wild grains is a fraction of modern varieties.

What are the long-term ramifications of a ketogenic diet in healthy people? It's somewhat difficult to say. Perhaps it's uniformly great for people, but perhaps not.

With all the caveats about extrapolating from n=1 experimentation, this is a pretty wild story about a woman who reversed a lifetime of serious health problems after switching to a fully carnivorous diet: http://foodmed.net/2018/05/mikhaila-...irl-carnivore/

but for the long-term, just avoiding shit food is a pretty good policy.

I think I said this in the prequel to this thread, but eliminating non-whole fruit fructose, seed oils, and refined starches is about 90% of the battle. That's the obesogenic trifecta. Just eat whole foods, everything else is kinda getting lost in the weeds.

They're both shills to some extent - particularly Sisson, who is getting worse

I lost a lot of respect for him when he started doing the Primal Health Coach certifications. What a joke. The book and blog have always been loss leaders for the supplements and seminars (the guy made supplements for 20 years before writing the Primal Blueprint, that's his gig), but the PHC thing was a bridge too far. That said, there's plenty of sound advice in the PB, most of his products are good quality and reasonably priced, and he practices what he preaches and looks outstanding for his age. Just don't buy into his diploma mill.

I'm kinda bummed to be eliminating fructose. Juice drinks even diluted halfway with water are way more entertaining than water.

Embrace La Croix.

Lipids do not dissolve in water (since they are nonpolar), so saturated fats can potentially clog arteries and blood vessels (more so than unsaturated fats, because they tend to be solid at higher temperatures).

Um, yeah, that's not how arterial plaque works, at all. Regardless, all saturated fats are quite liquid at body temperature (not your words, I know).

[Rideski]

I might have to try some. I'm emboldened by the humors
http://www.collegehumor.com/post/705...ts-of-la-croix


So if I make a pork shoulder, is the rendered fat any more or less dangerous or healthy than the solid chunks? ie, I could do more or less effort to chill overnight and take the fat cap off. vs, makes it a whole lot easier to skip the step and have some green chili that night, and take the fat off the next day.

[Dantheman]

I might have to try some. I'm emboldened by the humors
http://www.collegehumor.com/post/705...ts-of-la-croix

It's funny because it's true. Some of them do truly suck, but personally I think some a great. I love the key lime.

So if I make a pork shoulder, is the rendered fat any more or less dangerous or healthy than the solid chunks? ie, I could do more or less effort to chill overnight and take the fat cap off. vs, makes it a whole lot easier to skip the step and have some green chili that night, and take the fat off the next day.

Theoretically, the rendered fat should have less SFAs. The fatty acid profile of lard is actually damn close to olive oil.

[Dantheman]

^^Curious about this & I tried to find what you wrote earlier on 'except for whole fruits'. For me, keeping those in the diet is a big deal as whole fruit is one of the few things I've done right in the past. Excluding whole fruits seems crazy and I haven't followed that approach so far. Eating melon, pineapple, watermelon, berries, etc.


La Croix is ok? FknA if so, that's youdge.

Nutshell, any fructose you don't get from whole fruit is unhealthy, e.g. sucrose, HFCS, fruit juice. Whole fruit is fine, even Lustig says so, though I wouldn't recommend eating an entire pineapple or six apples in a day. But, if you want to do the keto thing you'll need to cut back on the fruit.

Yeah, La Croix is a full go.

[Rideski]

It's funny because it's true. Some of them do truly suck, but personally I think some a great. I love the key lime.



Theoretically, the rendered fat should have less SFAs. The fatty acid profile of lard is actually damn close to olive oil.

But isn't this backwards from what we do?
That suggests rendered fat is healthier?
Cook bacon, render fat, save it for later use, but throw away a lot of it.
Eat the fat that's still in the bacon...