Reverse Camber Touring Skis: What Should Be on my Radar

[DGamms]

I’ve got a pair of WNDR Vital 100s RC in a 183cm purchased and waiting for pickup in SLC. Going to be paired with Moment Voyager 12s and Fischer TransAlps.

Excited to try them out, will report back.

[Bamski]

The vwerks katanas do pretty well on icy steeps.

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I’ve heard people with the skill to engage the full sidecut of the ski with a bit more body English have much better experiences on the down. I’m sure lots of folks love RC in these situations, but in my experience, I’ve felt a bit precarious.

Does the katana run fairly flat, or is it an aggressive RC? That may also contribute to the grip.

[Bamski]

I have not found this to be an issue at all for me at least on the Raven, but definitely the Hoji. I am typically the last in my group to pop out the ski crampons while on a Raven, and while descending as long as you're on edge its been fine, I have not personally noticed any significant different between a ski with camber underfoot.

Which skins do you run? My current sample size is basically a DWT with Pomoca S Glides, Superwolf with Pomocas, and Ravens with Pomocas. The DWT has far and away the most grip, but I’d equate that with its surface contact being so large.

My Ravens have very pronounced RC - when standing on flat ground the contact patch is probably only 5-10cm out in front of my boot / behind. I’d imagine that with a skin weighted towards grip you’d have a more enjoyable time on the up.

[rfconroy]

Which skins do you run? My current sample size is basically a DWT with Pomoca S Glides, Superwolf with Pomocas, and Ravens with Pomocas. The DWT has far and away the most grip, but I’d equate that with its surface contact being so large.

My Ravens have very pronounced RC - when standing on flat ground the contact patch is probably only 5-10cm out in front of my boot / behind. I’d imagine that with a skin weighted towards grip you’d have a more enjoyable time on the up.

pomoca free 2.0 on a 1st gen raven, same skin on a Hoji III

[stuntmanbo]

Katana is flat not true RC.

RC I’ve owned/own : Renegade, Hoji, BMT 109 and 94, Raven, Mantra v4, 100Eight

The Hoji was completely terrifying on icy steeps, I though I was gonna die on an exposed traverse.

The other ones are more or less fine.

[SoVT Joey]

Black Crows Solis. Great on steeps, ice, chop, shit and can float. 1950 in a 180.

[Bamski]

Black Crows Solis. Great on steeps, ice, chop, shit and can float. 1950 in a 180.

Didn’t even realize the solis was rockered

[Benneke10]

Didn’t even realize the solis was rockered

Its got some camber underfoot

[SoVT Joey]

It’s super super slight. My pair is almost flat. Is like the regular Corvus.

[Benneke10]

It’s super super slight. My pair is almost flat. Is like the regular Corvus.

Can you post a pic? I'm curious

[tang]

Solis is intriguing. just so damn $$$.
Yeah the hoji (and newer ren) is much more rockered than the Raven. Wish they made a wider, heavier Raven… and called it the hoji! And also an ultralight Raven (like ~1500-1600 gr 190 cm). I feel the Raven is too heavy and ren too light

[Bamski]

Solis is intriguing. just so damn $$$.
Yeah the hoji (and newer ren) is much more rockered than the Raven. Wish they made a wider, heavier Raven… and called it the hoji! And also an ultralight Raven (like ~1500-1600 gr 190 cm). I feel the Raven is too heavy and ren too light

I’ll post up a shot of my Ravens because they are mega rockered. Wonder if the 2018 year was significantly different.

[SoVT Joey]

[GoSlowGoFar]

I’ll post up a shot of my Ravens because they are mega rockered. Wonder if the 2018 year was significantly different.

Blister does a breakdown of the various Raven versions in their review.

[Andyski]

My 174s are like that too. They ski pretty loose, but not RC loose. Better on skin track than ravens, but Ravens are fine. Solis on steeps are fucking awesome. Stalk EU sites for deals late season. Got mine for less than $500 shipped. Wish i had the white ones.


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[Wes Mantooth]

Solis is intriguing. just so damn $$$.
Yeah the hoji (and newer ren) is much more rockered than the Raven. Wish they made a wider, heavier Raven… and called it the hoji! And also an ultralight Raven (like ~1500-1600 gr 190 cm). I feel the Raven is too heavy and ren too light

I switched from the Hoji + another ski to the Raven to have a one ski touring quiver with a little less rocker. The Raven has a longer flat section underfoot than the Hoji but definitely still a reverse camber ski in my mind vs flat + rockered. I've found it performs a lot better in firm variable conditions compared to the Hoji. It feels stiffer and more stable at speeds, a little easier to throw around in tight spots, and overall more intuitive and stable when bombing down snowmobile tracks etc. The tradeoff is that it's much less floaty and playful than the Hoji.

From my experience for skis that look very similar on paper they ski extremely differently, so it's not just a matter of going a little narrower and getting a little less rocker

[meter-man]

I switched from the Hoji + another ski to the Raven to have a one ski touring quiver with a little less rocker. The Raven has a longer flat section underfoot than the Hoji but definitely still a reverse camber ski in my mind vs flat + rockered. I've found it performs a lot better in firm variable conditions compared to the Hoji. It feels stiffer and more stable at speeds, a little easier to throw around in tight spots, and overall more intuitive and stable when bombing down snowmobile tracks etc. The tradeoff is that it's much less floaty and playful than the Hoji.

From my experience for skis that look very similar on paper they ski extremely differently, so it's not just a matter of going a little narrower and getting a little less rocker

Wes, assume you mean the pre-2022 much more rockered version of the Hoji, yes?

[kootenayskier]

Lots of variations of fully rockered skis. The Synapse has lots of rocker up front, minimal underfoot, and a medium amount through the tail. This provides full slow powder noodling capability, but is still relatively versatile. The fully rockered Beasts looked similar (though I never skied em). The long mild rocker on my M4 Mantras and VWerks Katanas requires more speed and power to realize their liveliness, but doesn’t sacrifice any hard snow performance.

[Wes Mantooth]

Wes, assume you mean the pre-2022 much more rockered version of the Hoji, yes?

Yeah my Hojis were 2019 and Ravens are 2020

[hick]

Lots of variations of fully rockered skis. The Synapse has lots of rocker up front, minimal underfoot, and a medium amount through the tail. This provides full slow powder noodling capability, but is still relatively versatile. The fully rockered Beasts looked similar (though I never skied em). The long mild rocker on my M4 Mantras and VWerks Katanas requires more speed and power to realize their liveliness, but doesn’t sacrifice any hard snow performance.

That synapse 109 was such a fun ski! Probably the most playful touring ski I’ve ever been on. To bad they scrapped that one. Bases couldn’t really handle the choss pile around here though, pretty soft.


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[Bamski]

My 2018 Ravens:



Under body weight, my contact patch is basically my binding footprint. Works fine when the snow has some texture, can lead to some interesting moments if things harden up.

[meter-man]

I picked up used some WNDR Intention 110s in a 185. Mounted with Voyager 12s, they weight 2389 grams per ski. Not bad. They also came with BD MoMix skins factory cut for the skis. Decent skins, but not as much glide as I'd like and they really absorb water in spring.

Anyway, I have 5 days in the Intentions so the review may be a bit premature, but here's what I found

AKA Bitchy Takes on Hot BC Skis

- Intentions are damper than 191 Hojis (21/22) despite weighing 200+ grams LESS per ski. Ski pow a little less powerfully, but otherwise pretty similar. Less rockered, so a little more secure on slick skintracks and hardpack. Hojis weighed 2570 grams per ski with the the same bindings, 2190 grams per ski flat. The Hoji Hole is sweet, and allows for really light skins. 190 grams per skin for that 191 Hoji/Pomoca Free Tour versus 305 grams for Pomoca Climb Pro S-Glide. A little harder for me to rip the Hoji skin than normal tail clips (when transitioning with skis staying on).... Anyway: Buy Hojis for inbounds - if you're gonna tour with that much weight, get some Lotus 138s, Heritage C132s, Protests, or Renegades - which all weigh LESS! I don't get the Hoji as a BC ski. It's sofa king heavy.

- Intentions are better in pow and easier to bend in hardpack than 184 Ravens. Intentions feel like what I wanted the Ravens and Hojis to feel like. Buy Ravens if you read Blister. Like I did. I've found 60% absolutely LOVE them; 40% are like - "dafuq? I do NOT get it." Active used market for Ravens.

- Also better in pow - looser and slarvier - than Wildcat Tour 108s. Less "suspension" in variable snow, but also smoother to release out of turns and initiate in crusts and weird BC stuff due to the full rocker. Wildcats were a little bitter on firm. But I found that Wildcat's upturned rear tail a little annoying for BC skiing - can't do all the flat tail tricks. Plus, I'm not spinny flipping in the BC...or anywhere for that matter lol. GREAT SKI - just preferred the Intention. 2310 grams per ski with Voyagers. Buy this ski if you're a strong skier that's sort of cool in a zoolander way, and sometimes likes to play. Great hucking ski. I'll be very curious if Moment releases a Countach Tour 110...

- Intentions are not as good on firm as the Backland 107s, as long as that firm snow is consistent. Backlands also surfed pow well as long as you were ON IT. Intentions have a stonier freer easier feel. Backlands demand that YOU SKI THEM haaarrrdd. The Backlands were so light that they got tossed a lot in anything other than consistent snow. But overall a great lighter BC ski. 1575 grams per ski. I preferred them mounted at +2 over rec line - more control over the big tip and more powerful turns. Buy this ski if you are a former racer and must crush shin pressure in all turns.

- 190 Deathwish Tour...I just prefer the feel of Wildcat rocker-camber-rocker or Intention/Raven/Hoji full reverse over the Deathwish triple-camber. Some like it - I found the triple camber locked me in to turns when I didn't expect it. Though I'm sure that when you get used to it, it's no biggie. Anyway - great edge grip and somehow surfier than Wildcat Tour 108s, but less powerful and natural feeling for me. Buy this ski if you have a mustache, wear Flylow, and only ski triple camber.

Maybe we should start a bitchy takes thread lol.

[kid-kapow]

nice - thanks for your thoughts

[byates1]

The new lighter 4frnt devastator should make a solid touring rig..

[Westcoaster]

I picked up used some WNDR Intention 110s in a 185. Mounted with Voyager 12s, they weight 2389 grams per ski. Not bad. They also came with BD MoMix skins factory cut for the skis. Decent skins, but not as much glide as I'd like and they really absorb water in spring.

Anyway, I have 5 days in the Intentions so the review may be a bit premature, but here's what I found

AKA Bitchy Takes on Hot BC Skis

- Intentions are damper than 191 Hojis (21/22) despite weighing 200+ grams LESS per ski. Ski pow a little less powerfully, but otherwise pretty similar. Less rockered, so a little more secure on slick skintracks and hardpack. Hojis weighed 2570 grams per ski with the the same bindings, 2190 grams per ski flat. The Hoji Hole is sweet, and allows for really light skins. 190 grams per skin for that 191 Hoji/Pomoca Free Tour versus 305 grams for Pomoca Climb Pro S-Glide. A little harder for me to rip the Hoji skin than normal tail clips (when transitioning with skis staying on).... Anyway: Buy Hojis for inbounds - if you're gonna tour with that much weight, get some Lotus 138s, Heritage C132s, Protests, or Renegades - which all weigh LESS! I don't get the Hoji as a BC ski. It's sofa king heavy.

- Intentions are better in pow and easier to bend in hardpack than 184 Ravens. Intentions feel like what I wanted the Ravens and Hojis to feel like. Buy Ravens if you read Blister. Like I did. I've found 60% absolutely LOVE them; 40% are like - "dafuq? I do NOT get it." Active used market for Ravens.

- Also better in pow - looser and slarvier - than Wildcat Tour 108s. Less "suspension" in variable snow, but also smoother to release out of turns and initiate in crusts and weird BC stuff due to the full rocker. Wildcats were a little bitter on firm. But I found that Wildcat's upturned rear tail a little annoying for BC skiing - can't do all the flat tail tricks. Plus, I'm not spinny flipping in the BC...or anywhere for that matter lol. GREAT SKI - just preferred the Intention. 2310 grams per ski with Voyagers. Buy this ski if you're a strong skier that's sort of cool in a zoolander way, and sometimes likes to play. Great hucking ski. I'll be very curious if Moment releases a Countach Tour 110...

- Intentions are not as good on firm as the Backland 107s, as long as that firm snow is consistent. Backlands also surfed pow well as long as you were ON IT. Intentions have a stonier freer easier feel. Backlands demand that YOU SKI THEM haaarrrdd. The Backlands were so light that they got tossed a lot in anything other than consistent snow. But overall a great lighter BC ski. 1575 grams per ski. I preferred them mounted at +2 over rec line - more control over the big tip and more powerful turns. Buy this ski if you are a former racer and must crush shin pressure in all turns.

- 190 Deathwish Tour...I just prefer the feel of Wildcat rocker-camber-rocker or Intention/Raven/Hoji full reverse over the Deathwish triple-camber. Some like it - I found the triple camber locked me in to turns when I didn't expect it. Though I'm sure that when you get used to it, it's no biggie. Anyway - great edge grip and somehow surfier than Wildcat Tour 108s, but less powerful and natural feeling for me. Buy this ski if you have a mustache, wear Flylow, and only ski triple camber.

Maybe we should start a bitchy takes thread lol.

I enjoyed this. Makes me want to try a wndr, always thought they were too heavy for touring...