Justify atheism. Please

[k2skier112]

That is the way it works around here. Any inch of belief in god and you will get pounced on by a bunch of atheist who assume they know more than you. It’s TGR, so you’d kind of suspect that. People love to be the right one around here even if discussing a topic no one can prove. Whatevs.

And CS is mostly right with agnostics.

Gnostic or agnostic stand on their own. You are a firm believer or you question your belief. Agnostics are not some type of atheist. It is not some sub category, but a lot of people use the word Agnostic to mean something other than what it means. Again, whatevs, people are stupid.

As an example I’m an agnostic theist. I do believe in a higher power, or source and I believe it would have a consciousness. It may not be a consciousness at all like our own, and likely we would never be able to be on level with it to communicate directly. But, I don’t really have any firmness in this belief. And when it turns out I’m wrong, no skin off my back, but of course, we will likely never know I’m wrong.

Gnostics Theist or Atheist generally are just people with their heads up their assess who think they know shit about things they clearly do not.

And I don’t really care at all whether anyone else believes anything. I have friends who are part of organized religion and devout gnostic atheist friends. It really just depends on how you live your life. If your not an asshole about things,

But please continue yelling at each other over the internet. It seems pretty productive.

And I’m prepared to have y’all start throwing some stones at me for having a differing opinion on something none of y’all know shit about because simplest it is not knowable. Have fun. I’m headed backpacking with the kid.

You had me until the highlighted sentence.
Are you trying to be a troll, an antagonistic prick? Fail.


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mark-...b0a24c4f820954

Kansas Republican Accused Of Kicking Teen In Testicles Says It Was God’s Plan

[highangle]

Another thing, prayers. God that saw it all beforehand and gave your dog dysplasia anyway. God Knew you were going to be bummed for months over it and praying to Him for intercession before he gave your dog a painful condition that will eventually make you put him down - He's not going to change all that when you get down on your knees and do what He already knew you'd do before He did what He did.

[highangle]

You had me until the highlighted sentence.
Are you trying to be a troll, an antagonistic prick? Fail.


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mark-...b0a24c4f820954

Kansas Republican Accused Of Kicking Teen In Testicles Says It Was God’s Plan

I think the main point he point he was trying to make was that he's an agnostic theist, and if cornered he'll blurt out some version of Pascal's Wager.
It's an argument for guys lookin' out for themselves.

[Mustonen]

Another thing, prayers. God that saw it all beforehand and gave your dog dysplasia anyway. God Knew you were going to be bummed for months over it and praying to Him for intercession before he gave your dog a painful condition that will eventually make you put him down - He's not going to change all that when you get down on your knees and do what He already knew you'd do before He did what He did.

You are railing against Christianity. And I agree, it’s totally a fucked perspective and fuck that Guy particularly if He’s real. But that’s a different thread.

You’re playing into the narrative of Christians vs gnostic atheists, and that isn’t helpful. Not believing in god(s) being distinct from believing there is no god(s) is a useful distinction that gets lost with the “god, true or false” argument. I can not believe in any god(s) and proceed with my life without having to take some principled stance against all versions of god(s).

[XXX-er]

What's "Can' " supposed to mean? "Can primed" makes no sense...

t got left off

you can't monetize atheism, no collection plate, no huge building pulling down the big tax breaks

[Core Shot]

t got left off

you can't monetize atheism, no collection plate, no huge building pulling down the big tax breaks

Tax the churches

Tax the fuck out of the churches

#zappa

There’s a big difference between kneeling down and bending over

[highangle]

You are railing against Christianity. And I agree, it’s totally a fucked perspective and fuck that Guy particularly if He’s real. But that’s a different thread.

No it's not a different thread. OP implies he [or someone with a podcast] can justify theism when he posted this thread.

And reductionist arguments make Hinduism and Islam look pretty sad too. You shouldn't be so butthurt about that. It can't possibly affect you.

You’re playing into the narrative of Christians vs gnostic atheists, and that isn’t helpful. Not believing in god(s) being distinct from believing there is no god(s) is a useful distinction that gets lost with the “god, true or false” argument.

Whose narrative? Some collection of neoCalvinist snake worshipers from Slab City? One you'll concoct after reading this?
I challenge the foundations of arguments I see as poorly founded. Why? Because I'm a busy person and that's a better use of my leisure time than crafting nuanced responses to some jackoff lying for Jesus on the internet. You want to test a knot, you pull on it hard.

[highangle]

t got left off

you can't monetize atheism, no collection plate, no huge building pulling down the big tax breaks

Didn't Richard Dawkins and Bertie Russell make fine second incomes from their weekend gigs as professional atheists?
It's not necessarily easy money [you have to be really really good at something else before you start], but I'm sure they both shagged their share of groupies along the way.

[Mustonen]

No it's not a different thread. OP implies he [or someone with a podcast] can justify theism when he posted this thread.

And reductionist arguments make Hinduism and Islam look pretty sad too. You shouldn't be so butthurt about that. It can't possibly affect you.








Whose narrative? Some collection of neoCalvinist snake worshipers from Slab City? One you'll concoct after reading this?
I challenge the foundations of arguments I see as poorly founded. Why? Because I'm a busy person and that's a better use of my leisure time than crafting nuanced responses to some jackoff lying for Jesus on the internet. You want to test a knot, you pull on it hard.

Well I guess if the goal is to beat your opponents on the internet into submission/apathy you have a really good point. I don’t disagree on a substantive level, but I question the approach and as a rhetorical strategy you’re cornering yourself where you don’t need to and accepting their reframing of the discussion.

[Peruvian]

And so many posts here are angry at the “god” concept. It can be higher or other consciousness. Or space aliens taking you on the L Ron Hubbard shuttle to Xenu.
It doesn’t have to be a father figure answering your prayers with magical solutions.

Life is a miracle. It defies the laws of entropy.
We should not exist.

Carry on with the anger. But remember that mean people suck. And one good grilled cheese can change your trip.

There you go with ambiguity to the point of meaninglessness. If god can be any definition you choose (or I choose) than who cares if people believe in it or not.

As for “life is a miracle”, do you have a cursory understanding of evolution?

[XXX-er]

Didn't Richard Dawkins and Bertie Russell make fine second incomes from their weekend gigs as professional atheists?
It's not necessarily easy money [you have to be really really good at something else before you start], but I'm sure they both shagged their share of groupies along the way.

no clue, maybe atheism isnt so simple as not believing in god or not having to believe in a god ?

tomorrow is sunday but i won't think about a higher being at all

[frorider]

Trumptard wrote

Life is a miracle. It defies the laws of entropy.
We should not exist.

When I encounter this common fallacy, it’s hard to know how best to proceed. The statement is typically made by someone with no real understanding of entropy and closed system boundaries. Am I supposed to teach them that? Or steer them toward a 5 second Google search, since this entropic misunderstanding in re: Lifeforms is easily resolved that way?

[Flounder]

tomorrow is sunday but i won't think about a higher being at all

Me neither but I’m riding at Millstone tomorrow so I’ll probably take the lords name in vain a few times as well as pray that I don’t crash.

As a recovering catholic the entire Catholic Church is evidence there is no god, just a bunch of hypocritical pedos.

[XXX-er]

I got in a cab at an airport and found out the driver was a catholic so we got talking cuz i was dating a big time ( large C ?) Catholic at the time, when it got round to his mother buddy claimed " she was a travel agent for guilt trips " which i thot was a pretty good line

[TBS]

Still waiting for direct physical evidence for the existence of this super entity who guides the universe and all we do…

[XXX-er]

There is nothing out there, why wait?

just declare Atheist

shit or get off the pot

[CarlMega]

You had me until the highlighted sentence.
Are you trying to be a troll, an antagonistic prick? Fail.


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mark-...b0a24c4f820954

Kansas Republican Accused Of Kicking Teen In Testicles Says It Was God’s Plan

I'm about 1/2 thru watching the video in that link. Holy shit. Or a-holy shit if you're into the whole anti-holy shit brevity thing, that dude is a fucking loon.

[Bushwacka]

Hmmm
I’m kinda confused by the agnostic theist.


But. To my op.
I guess we’re arguing semantics after all.

When I was a kid agnostic was the I don’t know.
I guess now language has evolved where agnostic isn’t strong enough.

Agnostic atheist. Hmm. Ok. I get that.
We used to call that agnostic.


And so many posts here are angry at the “god” concept. It can be higher or other consciousness. Or space aliens taking you on the L Ron Hubbard shuttle to Xenu.
It doesn’t have to be a father figure answering your prayers with magical solutions.

Life is a miracle. It defies the laws of entropy.
We should not exist.

Carry on with the anger. But remember that mean people suck. And one good grilled cheese can change your trip.

I am not angry at the concept of God, I am angry at how the concept of god has controlled people and slowed progress. The concept of god objectively exist but any super natural being ever has never objectively existed.

With that said as a Georgist Anarchist I think you should be able to believe or acknowledge anything you want, but also as Anarchist me and my wife think that laws that go beyond protecting life and property should not exist.

Many believer take strong wording as anger, the reality is I am just a dude , who just woke up and its being entertained by reading this thread but also been arguing these points since I was about 8 years old in Sunday School and already a gnostic Atheist.

[ötzi]

The truth is, nobody knows shit about shit.

[JimmyCarter]

In this thread:
-Poorly framed arguments
-Snark
-Bet hedging
-A bunch of old white dudes who act like freshman year college chicks with a lot of "I'm not religious but I'm very spiritual" talk

[riser4]

I just want freedom from religion.

[ötzi]

Nobody knows anything. That's the thing to grasp, the complete and utter lack of knowledge about everything. The absoluteness of the lack of understanding we have is perfect. The scientists very much included. Scientists can tell you their model appears to hold together given observed or calculated conditions, that's all. Whether you believe in some story, or some numbers, it's all the same.

In the final analysis, if you go all the way back, we know absolutely fucking nothing. Whether you find that terrifying or exhilarating is up to you. If you find it terrifying you can probably find a story to believe if you ask around.

[Peruvian]

Nobody knows anything. That's the thing to grasp, the complete and utter lack of knowledge about everything. The absoluteness of the lack of understanding we have is perfect. The scientists very much included. Scientists can tell you their model appears to hold together given observed or calculated conditions, that's all. Whether you believe in some story, or some numbers, it's all the same.

In the final analysis, if you go all the way back, we know absolutely fucking nothing. Whether you find that terrifying or exhilarating is up to you. If you find it terrifying you can probably find a story to believe if you ask around.

This is a good start - admitting we don’t know what we don’t know.

Now the next step is to avoid making up stories and realities to try and explain what we don’t know.

[jono]

Nobody knows anything. That's the thing to grasp, the complete and utter lack of knowledge about everything. The absoluteness of the lack of understanding we have is perfect. The scientists very much included. Scientists can tell you their model appears to hold together given observed or calculated conditions, that's all. Whether you believe in some story, or some numbers, it's all the same.

In the final analysis, if you go all the way back, we know absolutely fucking nothing. Whether you find that terrifying or exhilarating is up to you. If you find it terrifying you can probably find a story to believe if you ask around.

Yup. Now cue the people who claim to have accepted this and built their argument on it. It seems like an attractive cudgel if you have someone you need to beat, even though, of course, there are cohesive philosophies that accept ignorance/uncertainty which are mutually exclusive of each other. (Otherwise our ignorance would be unstable and temporary.)

This topic could be an interesting discussion of human reasoning and how we use the three orthogonal vectors of observation, faith and uncertainty to map the twisted space of thought. But it isn't.

Which obviously brings me back to my real point: people suck. And since the only philosophy that can win people over by beating on them for sucking is misanthropism, we win. Suck on that.

[jono]

Now the next step is to avoid making up stories and realities to try and explain what we don’t know.

Show us on the doll where theoretical physics touched you.