Electric Bike Thread

**mtngirl79** · 07-23-2018, 05:26 PM

Actually, the law says ebikes aren't allowed on natural surface non motorized trails in Washington State unless specifically allowed by the land managers.

**mtngirl79** · 07-23-2018, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by ACH

Alcohol may have been involved…

1) Pointing out the hypocrisy and irony. MTNGrl and some others have little clue as to the history of trail access and the effort put in by many (who did far more than I), but that doesn’t stop them from being indignant and self righteous about trail access they feel entitled to.

Mountain bike specific trails are a relatively new phenomenon, many of the best trails (IMO) that exist were built by others and predated mountain biking.

2) Ebikes are coming, no mater how you feel about them, the wave is just starting to break and it is going to be a big one. Taking a fundamentalist approach and digging heels in isn’t going to help or make it go away. Nearly all of the rhetoric is fear/assumption based. Yeah, yeah some trails have been closed to mountain bikes in the past, and it is an ongoing problem with some new potential closures looming. However, there have also been a lot of new trails that have opened up over time, some on public land, some on private, and in the PNW specifically, more are coming. Like many things you have to take the long view.

A proactive approach needs to be developed and discussed by all involved instead of bickering (which I am admittedly part of in this thread). Actual study should replace fear based assumption. For instance, industry supported grants for independent, in depth study as to the true/actual effects of projected ebike traffic on trails, potential conflicts, etc. In the end, if these proposed studies show that the impact is nominal, then we can figure out a way to move forward together. If the studies show that the impact is considerable the risks to public health and safety too high, then land managers will be armed with something other than assumptions for making proper choices. That also means that people buying these products will have a better understanding of how they are impacting their environment and why there are limitations on where they can go.

From a user group standpoint, trying to push ebikes and the people who would ride them away doesn’t build our community, it divides it. And, it’s worth pointing out that many of these people that some would ridicule are in a good place to help, both in terms of income and influence.

Self aggrandizing - pffft, whatever - the point of relating my background is to provide foundation and context for the first statement, I was there, I lived it, otherwise I couldn’t care less if anyone is impressed or not.

[/end rant - and last post on this subject in this thread]

How will they "study" the number of people who will modify their ebikes to have more power and speed?

How will they study the comfort level of hikers getting passed at 20 miles per hour where the fast bikes use to climb at 5 miles per hour?

How will they make a motor not a motor?

**Vt-Freeheel** · 07-23-2018, 05:37 PM

How would life have evolved in a world controlled by mtngirl79?

**ill-advised strategy** · 07-23-2018, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by mtngirl79

How will they make a motor not a motor?

all motors are not the same. All the non-motorized distinctions were made prior to existence of these silent and much-less-powerful motors. You get that right? You get that when "motor vs non-motor" was being considered, the motors involved were an entirely different deal. It's entirely plausible to posit that if weak, silent, electric motors had been involved in the first place, we wouldn't have "motor vs. nonmotor" as the working distinction at all.

**mmmm...pow!** · 07-23-2018, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

all motors are not the same. All the non-motorized distinctions were made prior to existence of these silent and much-less-powerful motors. You get that right? You get that when "motor vs non-motor" was being considered, the motors involved were an entirely different deal. It's entirely plausible to posit that if weak, silent, electric motors had been involved in the first place, we wouldn't have "motor vs. nonmotor" as the working distinction at all.

Motor and non-motor is about as fine a line as there can be. Pretty simple. Not based on an arbitrary speed, or if you have some preexisting medical condition, or anything else - motors don't belong on trails designated as non-motorized. If it's an unofficial trail, fair game. Why do people keep trying to argue against this? If ebikers are so butthurt about it, maybe they can band together, build their own trails, and keep mountain bikes off of them?

**BCMtnHound** · 07-23-2018, 06:54 PM

Distinction between types and power of motorized recreation exist elsewhere. Like boating on small lakes. Some are HP restricted, some are designated electric only, and others are no motors at all. There are ways to further subdivide the distinctions that work just fine.

**Mountainman** · 07-23-2018, 07:01 PM

To everybody that wants the black and white line of motors only on designated motorized trails....How do you feel about dirt bikes on motorized trails that are fun to mountain bike? Are you psyched? or are you still a bit peeved they are on the trail? Do you wish they weren't allowed on those fun bike trails?

**californiagrown** · 07-23-2018, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by mmmm...pow!

Motor and non-motor is about as fine a line as there can be. Pretty simple. Not based on an arbitrary speed, or if you have some preexisting medical condition, or anything else - motors don't belong on trails designated as non-motorized. If it's an unofficial trail, fair game. Why do people keep trying to argue against this? If ebikers are so butthurt about it, maybe they can band together, build their own trails, and keep mountain bikes off of them?

And at one point, there was a very obvious line stating no machines on the trail. But through advocacy, MTB fought for access to trails.

IMO, the question isnt whether or not the e-bikes should be breaking the rules and riding on the trails, it is should the rules be changed to allow them on the trails? And to this point, i have yet to see an objectively logical reason or a reason not based on jealousy or selfishness, why they should not be allowed, but MTB should be.

**reckless toboggan** · 07-23-2018, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by californiagrown

And to this point, i have yet to see an objectively logical reason or a reason not based on jealousy or selfishness, why they should not be allowed, but MTB should be.

**2FUNKY** · 07-23-2018, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by mmmm...pow!

Motor and non-motor is about as fine a line as there can be. Pretty simple. Not based on an arbitrary speed, or if you have some preexisting medical condition, or anything else - motors don't belong on trails designated as non-motorized. If it's an unofficial trail, fair game. Why do people keep trying to argue against this? If ebikers are so butthurt about it, maybe they can band together, build their own trails, and keep mountain bikes off of them?

This is some funny shit. This thread is a PRIME example of the non ebikers having the MASSIVE BUTTHURTZZZZzz. Lmao!

**alias_rice** · 07-23-2018, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by reckless toboggan

I think some fun times could be had on that.

**panchosdad** · 07-23-2018, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mountainman

To everybody that wants the black and white line of motors only on designated motorized trails....How do you feel about dirt bikes on motorized trails that are fun to mountain bike? Are you psyched? or are you still a bit peeved they are on the trail? Do you wish they weren't allowed on those fun bike trails?

Completely depends on context. We have a lot of motorized single track, and most of the time it rides better because of the moto traffic. The large majority of moto riders are awesome to meet and talk with on the trail. Sometimes though they rip the shit out of trails, and that sucks. And a few of them are assholes.

**mtngirl79** · 07-23-2018, 09:09 PM

Depends on how crowded, too. I do not want to listen to motorcycles all day. I will not ride where I would hear them often.

**californiagrown** · 07-23-2018, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by reckless toboggan

Cliff notes please.

**Dantheman** · 07-23-2018, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by alias_rice

I think some fun times could be had on that.

IDK, the suspension looks like it's garbage. They were barely getting off the ground and blowing right through the travel. I laughed out loud when he said it could use a bit more dampening.

**mmmm...pow!** · 07-23-2018, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mountainman

To everybody that wants the black and white line of motors only on designated motorized trails....How do you feel about dirt bikes on motorized trails that are fun to mountain bike? Are you psyched? or are you still a bit peeved they are on the trail? Do you wish they weren't allowed on those fun bike trails?

No issues with dirt bikes on motorized trails. No, not psyched to see them, rather not smell exhaust or ride in a huge cloud of dust, but can't complain if they are riding where they are supposed to. Good chance dirt bikes made those trails, and if I don't want to see them I can go ride the trails that don't allow dirt bikes or ebikes. Seems by your question you are missing the point entirely. Most mountain bikers (judging by the sample size both here and on all the other online sites I've visited) just want trails that are free from motors, much as hikers may hike on bike trails, but can also choose to use a trail with no bikes.

**Bunion 2020** · 07-23-2018, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by mmmm...pow!

No issues with dirt bikes on motorized trails. No, not psyched to see them, rather not smell exhaust or ride in a huge cloud of dust, but can't complain if they are riding where they are supposed to. Good chance dirt bikes made those trails, and if I don't want to see them I can go ride the trails that don't allow dirt bikes or ebikes. Seems by your question you are missing the point entirely. Most mountain bikers (judging by the sample size both here and on all the other online sites I've visited) just want trails that are free from motors, much as hikers may hike on bike trails, but can also choose to use a trail with no bikes.

I do not think the point was being missed at all.

**Buster Highmen** · 07-23-2018, 10:01 PM

They were all over the Sella in the Dolomites. I don't particularly like 2 or 4 stroke noise when I'm out in the mountains, but those things were fine. Man, the Dolomites on the weekend are packed with Euros riding lifts and ripping down singletracks.

One thing about the Euros, Americans could learn a lot about tolerance.

**plugboots** · 07-23-2018, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

They were all over the Sella in the Dolomites. I don't particularly like 2 or 4 stroke noise when I'm out in the mountains, but those things were fine. Man, the Dolomites on the weekend are packed with Euros riding lifts and ripping down singletracks.

One thing about the Euros, Americans could learn a lot about tolerance.

One thing?

**Buster Highmen** · 07-23-2018, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by plugboots

One thing?

Yeah, well despite the better awd station wagons with a stick (dammit), food, wine, weirdo liquers and architecture, tolerance might just top the list.

**wooley12** · 07-23-2018, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by mmmm...pow!

No issues with dirt bikes on motorized trails. No, not psyched to see them, rather not smell exhaust or ride in a huge cloud of dust....................

Burning castor oil smells like pu**y to me. One mans trash is another..........

That said 2 strokes are dead.

Was that a motorized hub on that Bomber? Snurfers were pieces of shit too.

**jono** · 07-24-2018, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by californiagrown

And at one point, there was a very obvious line stating no machines on the trail. But through advocacy, MTB fought for access to trails.

"At one point?" There was never a point in time when bikes were banned from all trails. Prior to the eighties bikes were allowed everywhere. Bikes were ridden across most of the continent by buffalo soldiers. In 1965, fresh off signing the Wilderness Act, President Johnson said in reference to trails: "The forgotten outdoorsmen of today are those who like to walk, hike, ride horseback or bicycle. For them we must have trails as well as highways. Nor should motor vehicles be permitted to tyrannize the more leisurely human traffic."

Obviously there's a difference between electric motors and gas engines. But they were all banned in designated wilderness in 1964, while bikes were only banned by the USFS (not Congress) in 1984--and the fight over that continues with broader implications for designated and non-designated wilderness in large portions of the country. Much of our national trail system (such as it is) included. Jealousy has nothing to do with the risk of losing access.

Done right I can see e-bikes being beneficial in all sorts of ways (they're almost certainly less of a problem than many fear), but there are designations for land (as well as trails) that ban motors and those designations would have to change before e-bikes would be legal there. Does that matter? Do e-bikers want access to those places? IDK. Maybe they need an e-bike coalition. Just do yourselves a favor and don't let an e-IMBA start speaking for you; it won't end well.

**rideit** · 07-24-2018, 09:42 AM

https://www.facebook.com/bike007/vid...036633982/?t=2

**Name Redacted** · 07-24-2018, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by rideit

https://www.facebook.com/bike007/vid...036633982/?t=2

What an asshole. I bet he rode right by a "No Bikes" sign. Going to ruin it for the rest of us.

**alias_rice** · 07-24-2018, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

IDK, the suspension looks like it's garbage. They were barely getting off the ground and blowing right through the travel. I laughed out loud when he said it could use a bit more dampening.

Come on man, I’m not saying I’m gonna drop $8k on one, but if you couldn’t have fun on that for an afternoon you’re doing it wrong.