Police behaving goodly

[old_newguy]

Oh, so when the folks called 911 the other day to report a man flipping out in public and violently shaking his 3 month old, the cops who responded and arrested him weren’t preventing a violent crime? Got it.


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According to your sentence no.

Maybe prevented a MORE violent crime.

[bendtheski]

You know cops aren’t going to respond to a home invasion or burglary until after the fact for the most part. They might find the perpetrators but they don’t prevent those crimes.


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Patently false.

There’s a whole home security industry whose entire model is based on police response to in-progress burglaries and home invasions. No, they don’t prevent those crimes, aside from temporarily stopping some criminals, but they are a deterrent factor, as is community involvement.

Probably worth mentioning that there is also a large segment of the population who no longer recognize any civic responsibility, or at least little enough to be completely ineffective. The person who calls 911 to report a crash, but can’t be bothered pulling over to check for injuries, the woman who calls everyday to complain about cars parked within 3 feet of her driveway, the constant complaints about people doing shit they can legally do, and the insistence that cops contact people (violating their civil rights) on their behalf to make sure they’re on the up and up.

The cops I work with walk a constant tightrope of responding appropriately to true emergencies and avoiding conflicts of interest and liability from getting drawn into people’s pettiness and need to retaliate. It’s all fun and games till someone gets butthurt and bitches to the mods.

At least a panic alarm doesn’t have an agenda.


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[Garth Bimble]

Had an incident in my neighborhood yesterday evening, heard gunshots around 6, not unusual around here though, rural area that borders the San Juan NF. I have a little range on the back side of my property. Shortly after a bunch of squad cars come ripping up the road, get a reverse 911 telling us to stay inside, active shooter situation. Gunshots go on for about an hour, maybe 50-60+. Finally gets quiet, turns out a guy initially shot at a neighbor, cops came and he holed up and was apparently shooting at the cops but they eventually negotiated him out. Nobody injured.

Nicely done.

[bendtheski]

According to your sentence no.

Maybe prevented a MORE violent crime.

Are you going to intercede? Many are not.

I’m a big proponent of people figuring things out for themselves, btw, and sometimes that means assuming significant risk. It was a cop who first told me, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

I’m definitely not saying there aren’t bad cops and bad policing, but also recognize that the officer’s involvement is often just a snap-shot in a photo album of malfeasance. Sometimes it’s the perp’s photo album, but unfortunately we see too many examples of its being the cop’s.


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[bendtheski]

Had an incident in my neighborhood yesterday evening, heard gunshots around 6, not unusual around here though, rural area that borders the San Juan NF. I have a little range on the back side of my property. Shortly after a bunch of squad cars come ripping up the road, get a reverse 911 telling us to stay inside, active shooter situation. Gunshots go on for about an hour, maybe 50-60+. Finally gets quiet, turns out a guy initially shot at a neighbor, cops came and he holed up and was apparently shooting at the cops but they eventually negotiated him out. Nobody injured.

Nicely done.

There are so many of these stories no one ever hears about. I know I’m not approaching anyone’s barricaded location in that situation. Who you gonna call?

In thirteen years on console, I’ve lost track of the de-escalations of armed subjects. We’ve also had a few officer involved shootings which negatively impact everyone involved, and create psychological baggage some never recover from. I joke that the greatest risk with my job is a paper-cut, but most of us know we’re all just one bad call away from the end of our careers, which most of us care deeply about.


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[old_newguy]

Are you going to intercede? Many are not.

I’m a big proponent of people figuring things out for themselves, btw, and sometimes that means assuming significant risk. It was a cop who first told me, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

I’m definitely not saying there aren’t bad cops and bad policing, but also recognize that the officer’s involvement is often just a snap-shot in a photo album of malfeasance. Sometimes it’s the perp’s photo album, but unfortunately we see too many examples of its being the cop’s.


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Hey man, don’t get mad at me about the linear nature of time.

Guy shakes kid (commits violent crime), then someone calls police and police respond.

That isn’t a prevented crime. It’s responding to a report of a violent crime having been committed.

It’s possible to simultaneously be able to understand that I will need to call the police to help me in certain circumstances and also understand that THE POLICE have created a perception and trust issue for themselves to the point that many people are now willing to push their local politicians to dramatically rethink how policing is done, to have zero or no tolerance for “bad cops” and those that harbor them and to have lost a lot of faith that the police will turn in bad actors in their own ranks.

My true hope is that the good cops grow a spine and get the bad cops out of their ranks.

EDIT - I want to be clear: I want good cops in my town. That means I want to see a police force that doesn’t have to be under a consent decree to respect people’s civil rights, doesn’t shoot people on a regular basis, hands off mental health issues to the professionals and is respected and welcomed by all people in the community.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Oh, so when the folks called 911 the other day to report a man flipping out in public and violently shaking his 3 month old, the cops who responded and arrested him weren’t preventing a violent crime? Got it.


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Preventing, no. Intervening, yes. Or did they stop him before he shook the baby?

Quoted me twice, and others too, each time talking about police response to a violent crime. They didn’t prevent the crime, they responded. Is English your second language? I covered this in the post you quoted.

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[east or bust]

Preventing, no. Intervening, yes. Or did they stop him before he shook the baby?


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Could one not posit that apprehending a burglar would prevent future burglaries? I think that is the idea. Obviously the police can’t prevent a crime from happening in real time.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Could one not posit that apprehending a burglar would prevent future burglaries? I think that is the idea. Obviously the police can’t prevent a crime from happening in real time.

Oh sure, do you know what recidivism is?


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[old_newguy]

Oh sure, do you know what recidivism is?


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Oh look, another thing our criminal justice system sucks at.

Apparently the US has one of the highest recidivism rates in the developed world. Close to 45%.

[ötzi]

Hey man, don’t get mad at me about the linear nature of time.

Well if you're in charge of that I definitely would like to have a few words with you.

[DeepHelmet]

The police are being pushed by local politics to be assholes to non-criminals about non-crimes in my neighborhood. One older cop was initially a dick to me, but then just kind of lost steam and we talked for a long time…he’s about to retire, can’t believe they expect him to go around harassing people who aren’t causing trouble, is frustrated because people react poorly to harassment and it makes his day suck.

Later, another young cop did the same thing but didn’t relent or break character or explain anything about how they’re being pushed to harass us.

It was the burnt out cop saying “fuck it” that was the one who did the better job. Think about that! Think about what that says about the way that job is structured, they’re in a position where they’re being pushed to make trouble where there was no trouble, and the only ones willing to do the right thing are the ones unwilling to follow orders.

After reading this thread, I wanted to reply but couldn't figure out how to pick the turd up by the clean end. Sounds like the cops in your town suck. That's too bad. Maybe try not to paint with such a broad brush, you speak in all encompassing terms when the reality is very different. They're not all the same. The cops in my department don't have time to harass anyone, they run from call to call trying to keep up. They're also very unlikely to do any proactive policing right now, traffic stops are way down.

As far as drugs being a victimless crime, that's just the opinion of an uninformed pothead that assumes his benign experience with drugs is the same for everyone. I firmly believe we should legalize pot across the country, I don't think I've ever seen anyone high on pot knock off a liquor store for money to buy more pot. As far as other drugs go, until you've served search warrants and found a little girl in a princess costume sleeping on a pile of milk crates in the front room while a bunch of shitbags smoke crack around her, then shut the fuck up, you don't know what you're talking about. I've seen kids living in dog kennels, old ladies stuck to their beds because they haven't gotten up to take a shit in months, rooms covered in so many cockroaches that the walls were moving, houses where children are sleeping in an on their own shit. I could go on much longer than I'd like.
As far as the OP in this thread, I appreciate the sentiment but this thread went exactly where I thought it was going to go. There is truth to what Old Goat says, when cops do the right thing that's their job. We shouldn't really make that big of a deal about it. We also need to stop using the word "hero" so much. A hero is someone who jumps on the grenade and saves his buddies, not someone who goes to work and does what's expected of them. Carry on.

[cantspin]

This thread is long overdue, inspired by 2 local tragedies yesterday. Post up positive incidents here, and save your vitriol for the other thread. The door swings both ways.

Worcester Police Officer Enmanuel Familia dies while trying to save drowning teens

https://www.telegram.com/story/news/...er/7547898002/

‘Ambushed’: Two Police Officers Wounded, K9 And Suspect Killed In Braintree Shooting
https://www.wcvb.com/article/braintr...-shot/36633658

R.I.P. Officer Familia and K9 Kitt

Rest In Peace to any human that dies trying to save another person from drowning. But have you interacted with Worcester cops!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLi go to WPI and Worcester cops fucking blow. Boston cops fucking blow.

Shit I’ve seen with my own eyes:
During blm protests(which were pretty mild in Worcester) Worcester cops removed badges and blacked out badge numbers.

Disproportionately monitor neighborhoods w large minority populations while the college kids me included are selling blow and psychs out of frat houses.

Racist ass police department.
They also do some culty ass ritual training bs hazing fuckshit.

ACAB. Maybe a great dude wrong fucking profession


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

After reading this thread, I wanted to reply but couldn't figure out how to pick the turd up by the clean end. Sounds like the cops in your town suck. That's too bad. Maybe try not to paint with such a broad brush, you speak in all encompassing terms when the reality is very different. They're not all the same. The cops in my department don't have time to harass anyone, they run from call to call trying to keep up. They're also very unlikely to do any proactive policing right now, traffic stops are way down.

As far as drugs being a victimless crime, that's just the opinion of an uninformed pothead that assumes his benign experience with drugs is the same for everyone. I firmly believe we should legalize pot across the country, I don't think I've ever seen anyone high on pot knock off a liquor store for money to buy more pot. As far as other drugs go, until you've served search warrants and found a little girl in a princess costume sleeping on a pile of milk crates in the front room while a bunch of shitbags smoke crack around her, then shut the fuck up, you don't know what you're talking about. I've seen kids living in dog kennels, old ladies stuck to their beds because they haven't gotten up to take a shit in months, rooms covered in so many cockroaches that the walls were moving, houses where children are sleeping in an on their own shit. I could go on much longer than I'd like.
As far as the OP in this thread, I appreciate the sentiment but this thread went exactly where I thought it was going to go. There is truth to what Old Goat says, when cops do the right thing that's their job. We shouldn't really make that big of a deal about it. We also need to stop using the word "hero" so much. A hero is someone who jumps on the grenade and saves his buddies, not someone who goes to work and does what's expected of them. Carry on.

After reading this, I can safely say that the police preventing violent and drug crimes isn’t working. Sounds like our criminal drug laws are making things worse. Do you have the self awareness to stop and listen to yourself? Everything you listed has happened because of the “war on drugs”. It’s terrible but you’re barking up the wrong tree.


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[DeepHelmet]

After reading this, I can safely say that the police preventing violent and drug crimes isn’t working. Sounds like our criminal drug laws are making things worse. Do you have the self awareness to stop and listen to yourself? Everything you listed has happened because of the “war on drugs”. It’s terrible but you’re barking up the wrong tree.


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The war on drugs isn't working. It's kind of keeping a lid on things, but definitely needs fixing. I'm waiting for someone with a better idea to step up, if I had the answer I'd surely share it. Legalizing things like crack, dab, shatter, spice, and heroin is probably not the answer. Unless you're a fan of seeing a ton of people die.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The war on drugs isn't working. It's kind of keeping a lid on things, but definitely needs fixing. I'm waiting for someone with a better idea to step up, if I had the answer I'd surely share it. Legalizing things like crack, dab, shatter, spice, and heroin is probably not the answer. Unless you're a fan of seeing a ton of people die.

The war on drugs is the pressure cooker you describe. Do some research, read. The problem with illegal drugs is that they are illegal. All the violence, neglect and poverty is caused by the war on drugs, it’s a system that is doing what it was designed to do, keep poor people oppressed and/or incarcerated.


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[abraham]

There is truth to what Old Goat says, when cops do the right thing that's their job. We shouldn't really make that big of a deal about it. We also need to stop using the word "hero" so much. A hero is someone who jumps on the grenade and saves his buddies, not someone who goes to work and does what's expected of them. Carry on.

I think there's a lot of fetishizing authority involved. Yeah there are plenty of things cops deal with things and situations I'm glad I don't have to. But I don't see people going around with shirts or stickers that say back the Honey Bucket cleaning dudes or anything.

Also, do or did you ride a huge snowboard? Like a 190-200cm board?

[Core Shot]

As far as drugs being a victimless crime, that's just the opinion of an uninformed pothead that assumes his benign experience with drugs is the same for everyone. I firmly believe we should legalize pot across the country, I don't think I've ever seen anyone high on pot knock off a liquor store for money to buy more pot. As far as other drugs go, until you've served search warrants and found a little girl in a princess costume sleeping on a pile of milk crates in the front room while a bunch of shitbags smoke crack around her, then shut the fuck up, you don't know what you're talking about. I've seen kids living in dog kennels, old ladies stuck to their beds because they haven't gotten up to take a shit in months, rooms covered in so many cockroaches that the walls were moving, houses where children are sleeping in an on their own shit. I could go on much longer than I'd like.
As far as the OP in this thread, I appreciate the sentiment but this thread went exactly where I thought it was going to go. There is truth to what Old Goat says, when cops do the right thing that's their job. We shouldn't really make that big of a deal about it. We also need to stop using the word "hero" so much. A hero is someone who jumps on the grenade and saves his buddies, not someone who goes to work and does what's expected of them. Carry on.

Agree

Once upon a time
My teachers and media convinced me that junkies need cheap heroin so they can be poets and artists. They only steal your shit and sleep in flophouses because it’s “illegal”

Fuck that
I’m woke
Some drugs are pure evil life wreckers.

Yes. Illegal drugs give rise to gangs and violence.
Legalize stupid drugs and you get homeless tents on city streets. Oh wait. We already have that.

[DeepHelmet]

The war on drugs is the pressure cooker you describe. Do some research, read. The problem with illegal drugs is that they are illegal. All the violence, neglect and poverty is caused by the war on drugs, it’s a system that is doing what it was designed to do, keep poor people oppressed and/or incarcerated.


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Ahhh, got it. So if we end the "War on Drugs" all these pieces of shit will stop keeping their kids in milk crates and dog kennels and go get a fucking job? Damn, wish I woulda thought of that. I did plenty of research, even a little bit of reading. Got a degree in it. Your part about a CJ system being designed to keep the poor people oppressed and incarcerated is true, albeit less so than 100 years ago. My question is why is everyone always attacking the police, the lowest cog in the system, but not going after what would actually make a difference, the politicians at the top?

There's plenty of totally functional alcoholics, pot smokers, and cocaine users out there. You will never in a million years convince me that people will be productive members of society while using meth, heroin, spice, shatter, and any of the other shit that's out there. Yes I read about the professor who was microdosing heroin. He's literally one in a million to be an extraordinary enough person to control that.

And abraham, no, I've never snowboarded.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Ahhh, got it. So if we end the "War on Drugs" all these pieces of shit will stop keeping their kids in milk crates and dog kennels and go get a fucking job? Damn, wish I woulda thought of that. I did plenty of research, even a little bit of reading. Got a degree in it. Your part about a CJ system being designed to keep the poor people oppressed and incarcerated is true, albeit less so than 100 years ago. My question is why is everyone always attacking the police, the lowest cog in the system, but not going after what would actually make a difference, the politicians at the top?

There's plenty of totally functional alcoholics, pot smokers, and cocaine users out there. You will never in a million years convince me that people will be productive members of society while using meth, heroin, spice, shatter, and any of the other shit that's out there. Yes I read about the professor who was microdosing heroin. He's literally one in a million to be an extraordinary enough person to control that.

And abraham, no, I've never snowboarded.

Well, people are talking about the police because this is a thread about police. There are lots of people who dabble in meth and heroin. Yes, I’ve known them personally. Yes addiction is terrible, that’s what should be a priority not throwing people in jail. There’re exponentially more people affected and ruined by alcohol than heroin and meth. Why do you think the meth and heroin “epidemic” is so visible? It’s because it’s illegal.

As far as the criminal justice system not being as bad as 100 years ago, are you kidding? The war on drugs didn’t really take off until the’70s.


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[east or bust]

Well, people are talking about the police because this is a thread about police. There are lots of people who dabble in meth and heroin. Yes, I’ve known them personally. Yes addiction is terrible, that’s what should be a priority not throwing people in jail. There’re exponentially more people affected and ruined by alcohol than heroin and meth. Why do you think the meth and heroin “epidemic” is so visible? It’s because it’s illegal.

Holy fucking shit dude, QFP... This thread is about the police, then go on to spew about a subject that doesn’t involve the police whatsoever.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Holy fucking shit dude, QFP... This thread is about the police, then go on to spew about a subject that doesn’t involve the police whatsoever.

Oh, you’re the thread drift police? It’s an ongoing conversation. Have you read this thread? My posts are in response to people claiming that the police prevent crime. It devolved into a conversation about why drugs are bad. You can fuck off.


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[Buster Highmen]

My question is why is everyone always attacking the police, the lowest cog in the system, but not going after what would actually make a difference, the politicians at the top?

You don't really mean to infer that we're easy on politicians, do you? Politicians, Nixon exceptionally, are completely responsible for the war on drugs.

And while cops do get swept into piles when some of them are decent yet trapped by such a system, there is a problem with authoritarianism and prejudice with cops. After all, they're just like everybody else.

There's plenty of totally functional alcoholics, pot smokers, and cocaine users out there. You will never in a million years convince me that people will be productive members of society while using meth, heroin, spice, shatter, and any of the other shit that's out there. Yes I read about the professor who was microdosing heroin. He's literally one in a million to be an extraordinary enough person to control that.

And abraham, no, I've never snowboarded.

Portugal.

[DeepHelmet]

I've touched the "clean end" of this turd long enough. We'll never change each other's minds. Once again, thanks for the sentiment OP. Time for gin and tonics and to fire up the smoker. I hope you guys all have a great weekend.

[cantspin]

And on that final note

ACAB


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