Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[DougW]

Counterpoint to that:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...istancing.html

That is not a very balanced art. The interview I saw the Swede was very balanced and said maybe it is the right approach maybe not? He did say that the petition letter had been widely discounted. Did try to find a Swedish art on the issue but did not get to read much as pay wall.
"The uproarious rift between Anders Tegnell and parts of the research world may seem disturbing. But the debate about the public health authority's corona strategy is perfectly normal. Scientists never agree and should not agree.
"In one corner: The Public Health Agency with Anders Tegnell and its own close to 500 experts, often backed by public academics such as Gothenburg professor Agnes Wold.

In the second corner: Leading experts on infectious diseases and viruses, with large international networks, at several of the country's largest educational institutions, such as Björn Olsen in Uppsala and Fredrik Elgh and Joacim Rocklöv in Umeå."

[hutash]

I'm actually thinking the most useful role for remdesivir might be earlier in the infectious course, before lung symptoms develop, which is when they actually used it in the trial. This might end up overtreating a proportion of the affected population, in that more people would get the drug than actually needed it, but I think it's relatively safe, though side effects are still being determined.

And I'm sure Gilead doesn't mind if patients are overtreated.

Along those lines, it's entirely possible that hydroxychloroquine could be used earlier in the course than as tested in the studies available, for better utility, but risks of overtreatment with this agent are more significant and well known in re: QT prolongation and subsequent cardiac arrhythmias.

I think this is how some of these drugs will find some usefullness. Used at the right time at the right dose and they may have some benefit.

There is a time when a sacrifice bunt is useful. No one on base and two outs is not that time.

[Bozo T. Clown]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...-corporations/
The group at Oxford has a vaccine starting phase 3 trials in a month. They feel they can go into production in September IF the vaccine works. (It works in monkeys apparently.)
Not a lot in the article about the details of the trial. The time line seems problematic. Britain is still locked down. Presuming the volunteers observe the restrictions it's quite possible that neither the placebo group nor the vaccinated group will develop any cases by then. Maybe they are using volunteers in essential jobs who are being exposed. Maybe they're using health care workers treating Covid patients--the article doesn't say. Maybe they're sending them to Georgia to get haircuts, manicures, and tattoos.

The nonprofit Oxford group is making arrangements for multiple pharma companies to produce the drug in order to produce as many doses as possible as quickly as possible. Apparently the largest, in India, is starting production now to get a head start, in the hope that it works. Interesting side note--no North American company is willing to participate--they all have a policy of not getting involved in any drug or vaccine unless they are given exclusive worldwide marketing rights. Defense Production Act? Or should the USA be the last country on the planet to be vaccinated--why ruin our perfect record of fucking up?

Emphasis--there is no guarantee the vaccine will work. The Oxford vaccine involves inserting a piece of SARS-CV2 RNA into a coronavirus that causes colds, weakening that virus so it doesn't spread, and injecting that. (Side note--why weaken the cold virus. You could indirectly vaccinate people if they caught a cold from vaccinated people while they were waiting for the real thing.) No working vaccine has ever been produced by this method. There is no guarantee that the body will produce antibodies to the short piece of RNA. There is no guarantee that the antibodies to the RNA will kill the virus--the antibodies may not be able to get through the outer coat of the virus to the RNA. There is no guarantee the antibodies will last. (Why they sometimes do and sometimes don't I don't remember enough immunology to explain.) Reminder--there is still no HIV or Ebola vaccine (there are Ebola vaccines in trials.)

Caveat--my immunology was decades ago. There are people here who can correct my mistakes--please.

The Oxford vaccine is all trendy, genetic engineering. No traditional inactivating the virus.

The viral vector is a recombinant, non-replicating, chimpanzee adenovirus. Adenoviruses are double stranded DNA viruses.

It's been gene spliced to deliver DNA for the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein into host cells. Coronaviruses are single stranded RNA viruses.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenoviridae

https://www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/news/covid-...ne-development
https://www.irbm.com/news/the-jenner...virus-vaccine/
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...796-0/fulltext

"it is necessary for a small number of study participants to develop COVID-19. How quickly we reach the numbers required will depend on the levels of virus transmission in the community. If transmission remains high, we may get enough data in a couple of months to see if the vaccine works, but if transmission levels drop, this could take up to 6 months."
https://www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/news/oxford...an-trial-stage

Takes guts to extrapolate from 6 monkeys in Montana, to 556 humans, to a few billion humans. Will the antibody response be strong enough? The T cell response?

Lots of other people have lots of other ideas:

COVID-19 therapeutics tracker
https://www.raps.org/news-and-articl...eutics-tracker

COVID-19 vaccine tracker
https://www.raps.org/news-and-articl...accine-tracker

Current Count of Treatments and Vaccines
182 treatments in consideration
99 vaccines in development
https://milkeninstitute.org/covid-19-tracker

[Benny Profane]

Holy shit.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-...morative-coins

[Core Shot]

Beach bleaching?

Whatta the fucka is wrong with gubmint workers

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52471208

[skaredshtles]

Holy shit.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-...morative-coins

Dude. The Daily Beast?

[KQ]

I read something that was claiming the covid came from china but via yurp and into newyork ?

She's been falsely accused of starting the pandemic. Her life has been turned upside down

[hutash]

Had to look up Lord Amherst. Smallpox blankets to the Indians. Which should strike a note of caution--be careful who you take the gift of a face mask from.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes"

..."We can build a very large badger".

[bennymac]

Holy shit.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-...morative-coins

please tell me this is fake - like someone hacked the gift shop

https://globalnews.ca/news/6883905/c...-donald-trump/

https://www.tmz.com/2020/04/29/white...ovid-19-trump/

[riser4]

I think whenever they quote these numbers they should also include that the death numbers are fantastically high despite having taken extraordinary measures to help reduce the spread of the virus. That should never been forgotten. We'd most likely already be north of 1967 and 1957 if no distancing efforts were taken.

I don't call the efforts taken to prevent spread in the US extraordinary, not by a long shot. Too little, too late is what I call it. Slamming the barn door shut after the neighbor's stallion broke in and done fucked all the mares bigly is what I call it.

[gravitylover]

Fauci likes remdesivir. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/29/u...#link-3046ea96
Other scientists are skeptical.

"The trial enrolled 1,063 patients who were given remdesivir or a placebo, according to N.I.A.I.D. The time to recovery averaged 11 days among those who received the drug, compared with 15 days for those who received the placebo." Not game changing numbers. Let's see what the rest of the numbers are.

Ooh boy it'll save 4 days of being sick. Big fkn deal.

I think most people around here have given up. Its gotta be about 75% either not wearing masks or it's just covering their chin. Traffic is building every day and gas prices are creeping back up and random businesses that shouldn't be open are. I'm also seeing restaurants giving up and today saw 3 businesses moving stuff out and emptying their storefront. End of the month is here and biz's are throwing in the towel. Uggh...

[Ted Striker]

^^^ same here. It's not everybody, but there has been an uptick for sure. Especially the random businesses that shouldn't be open.

Only a few permanent small biz closures, but more are likely for sure.

[Ted Striker]

It appears to be real: https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/p...vid-heroes.htm

[KQ]

It appears to be real: https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/p...vid-heroes.htm

No, the White House gift shop is not selling coronavirus-themed commemorative coins for $100

[Benny Profane]

Ooh boy it'll save 4 days of being sick. Big fkn deal.

I think most people around here have given up. Its gotta be about 75% either not wearing masks or it's just covering their chin. Traffic is building every day and gas prices are creeping back up and random businesses that shouldn't be open are. I'm also seeing restaurants giving up and today saw 3 businesses moving stuff out and emptying their storefront. End of the month is here and biz's are throwing in the towel. Uggh...

Lots of traffic on road rides. Seriously , I'm convinced it's just a lot of people driving around.

[jono]

I read something that was claiming the covid came from china but via yurp and into newyork ?

We sure would have wanted to switch that up by mid-February, but starting with China and moving on to Italy and Spain before applying it to everyone would have been hudge. Would have been.

[Benny Profane]

No, the White House gift shop is not selling coronavirus-themed commemorative coins for $100

Phew. Thanks for clearing that up. My dreams won't be so weird tonight. Just more War of the Worlds stuff.

[mcski]

It appears to be real: https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/p...vid-heroes.htm

I just looked it up on the site too. Hole lee fuk


GROUP BUY!!!

[Buster Highmen]

Only laughter is a more universal sound than toast popping.

[riser4]

Ooh boy it'll save 4 days of being sick. Big fkn deal.

I think most people around here have given up. Its gotta be about 75% either not wearing masks or it's just covering their chin. Traffic is building every day and gas prices are creeping back up and random businesses that shouldn't be open are. I'm also seeing restaurants giving up and today saw 3 businesses moving stuff out and emptying their storefront. End of the month is here and biz's are throwing in the towel. Uggh...

4 days could be life or death for some, reduced long term effects for others.

[iceman]

They couldn't even spell Mnuchin. https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/p...vid-heroes.htm

[bennymac]

Thanks KQ

turns out YES - the "White House Gift Shop" is selling these coins for real

but NO - the gift shop is not actually affiliated with the current administration or the White House

[bennymac]

I may have missed this article being posted:

https://unherd.com/2020/04/which-epi...x98jb9mY6wmqzI

Which epidemiologist do you believe? - the debate about lockdown is not a contest between good and evil

Are you more Giesecke or Ferguson? The expert that most resonates is unlikely to be entirely down to your assessment of the science — more likely a complex combination of your politics, your own life experience, your attitude to risk and mortality and your relationship to authority. Perhaps each of us have elements of both instinct within us — but what do they really represent?

[mcski]

Thanks KQ

turns out YES - the "White House Gift Shop" is selling these coins for real

but NO - the gift shop is not actually affiliated with the current administration or the White House

So is the group buy still on?

[Ted Striker]

No, the White House gift shop is not selling coronavirus-themed commemorative coins for $100

Yet they are.