ON3P SKIS Discussion

[mn_teleswede]

I think the balance of weight/flex of the 98’s strike a nice balance between forgiveness/ stiffness. Mounted at -2 with NTN.
IMHO...If the skis were lighter; I think they would feel stiffer. Me being #210/ 6’3” helps FWIW

[krick]

Is the K108 getting the same tweaks?

Sometime in March.

Naw, we love the new rocker profile. But we did stiffen the forebody and tail a bit.

Tweaked.

[PowTron]

Is the K108 getting the same tweaks?

No. K108 has one minor tweak, but it’s not flex.

“If you always wait for next year’s ski gear, you’ll be one year older when you buy it...”

- ghost of Warren Miller

[auvgeek]

“If you always wait for next year’s ski gear, you’ll be one year older when you buy it...”

- ghost of Warren Miller

Yeah, I kind of take back what I said before. The Kartel and Wren lines are so dialed for what their intended purposes, there's really no need to wait -- I bet the Kartel suits 90% of playful skiers and the Wren suits 90% of directional skiers. If you want a Wren with less tail rocker or a Kartel with less sidecut, then sure, keep holding your breath. But you better like the color blue.

[optics]

No. K108 has one minor tweak, but it’s not flex.

“If you always wait for next year’s ski gear, you’ll be one year older when you buy it...”

- ghost of Warren Miller

And...

"Just buy the dang things now, and then if you want new ones next year, sell them. These sticks hold their value better than most any others".

-Ghost of my experience

[jackattack]

Except for SuperGoats.... never to be sold.

-Ghost of my Future

[Banh Mi]

Oh man. Supergoats are so good. On3p friggen nailed it.


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[carlh]

Will there be another run of supergoats next year? Planning on watching for scraps but it sounds like everyone is loving theirs.

[mtskibum16]

Yeah, I kind of take back what I said before. The Kartel and Wren lines are so dialed for what their intended purposes, there's really no need to wait -- I bet the Kartel suits 90% of playful skiers and the Wren suits 90% of directional skiers. If you want a Wren with less tail rocker or a Kartel with less sidecut, then sure, keep holding your breath. But you better like the color blue.

I get stuck on these terms. I consider myself a playful skier, but I also like to ski fast and pretty much always in the forward direction. Depending on the run, company, conditions, and mood I jump, pop, bounce, slash, and sometimes spin off about everything in my path then point it and blast the chopped up crud as fast as I dare. Driving or centered stance based on situation (no technical or race background....so I don't really know I guess), carve big and small turns, and slarve too all pretty much in one direction. So am I a playful directional skier? What am I supposed to get? I read about funky hardpack elliptical sidecut issues with the Kartel (from some) and don't really need the twin tip or want the near centered mount, but then I'm worried the Wren will be too serious all the time and be angry when I slow it down and mess around. Probably I'm over thinking it and the skier matters more than the ski when it comes to skiing style. I think I want a playful charger. Is that the Kartel or Wren? Or is the Kartel more of a slightly chargy playful ski? It's hard to know which end of the spectrum would be better for me. Maybe I should just get both. I'm bored at work and ready for the weekend.

[theetruscan]

I think I was the person who brought up the elliptical sidecut "issues*". I've owned the Kartel (186 - 106 not newer 108), skied the wren (184, 108). I'm 6'2" 230#, so both of those skis were a bit too small for me. Just barely though.

At my size, both skis were pretty forgiving, but they were different.

Kartel felt like it had a bit more pop, and was a touch quicker side to side. The wren felt a little more predictable in weird snow. My only issues with the kartel were folding up the tips one time going very fast on awful refrozen snow, and having the skis diverge when I (a) drove the tips like I would on my head monsters and (b) was skiing on crust/ice.

Wren was easy enough to ski. I was a little less eager to pop off things, though that could be entirely mental. It was great when I did. I thought it was just a tiny bit more comfortable turning less. It's the ski I will likely buy next (in 189 tho), as I prefer to drive the tips more than stay over the center of the ski.

I think both of them are great for the kind of skiing you describe, just a question of whether you prefer to stay centered or drive the tips of skis. Not an expert at skis or skiing. YMMV.

Also, I just ski my OG billy goats every day anyway.

* Not really issues so much as "not dialed for the way I ski in literally every condition ever known."

[Toddball]

I get stuck on these terms. I consider myself a playful skier, but I also like to ski fast and pretty much always in the forward direction. Depending on the run, company, conditions, and mood I jump, pop, bounce, slash, and sometimes spin off about everything in my path then point it and blast the chopped up crud as fast as I dare. Driving or centered stance based on situation (no technical or race background....so I don't really know I guess), carve big and small turns, and slarve too all pretty much in one direction. So am I a playful directional skier? What am I supposed to get? I read about funky hardpack elliptical sidecut issues with the Kartel (from some) and don't really need the twin tip or want the near centered mount, but then I'm worried the Wren will be too serious all the time and be angry when I slow it down and mess around. Probably I'm over thinking it and the skier matters more than the ski when it comes to skiing style. I think I want a playful charger. Is that the Kartel or Wren? Or is the Kartel more of a slightly chargy playful ski? It's hard to know which end of the spectrum would be better for me. Maybe I should just get both. I'm bored at work and ready for the weekend.

I'm in this boat too. Fortunately, I can't justify/afford brand new skis, so I will wait for the Kartels or Wrens or whatever that will inevitably appear in Gear Swap when someone ends up buying a new ski they didn't need.

(If any other bored-at-work people need a ride from Seattle area Stevens Pass within the hour, pm me...nightskiing friend group is super lame today.)

[auvgeek]

don't really need the twin tip or want the near centered mount, but then I'm worried the Wren will be too serious all the time and be angry when I slow it down and mess around.

The biggest difference between the two skis is the mount, so I think you probably want the Wren. But obviously try to demo first.

But this is why I keep saying ON3P should make a ski with the current K108 rocker profile, 110 underfoot, progressively mounted, ~27 m radius with the bi-radius sidecut, minimal taper, and an even flex pattern (like 8-8.5-8 or something). Would be perfect for people like you and me who want to charge but also like to pop and spin off stuff. Aevergreene got his pro model so I'm gonna keep pitching this.

[theetruscan]

The biggest difference between the two skis is the mount, so I think you probably want the Wren. But obviously try to demo first.

But this is why I keep saying ON3P should make a ski with the current K108 rocker profile, 110 underfoot, progressively mounted, ~27 m radius with the bi-radius sidecut, minimal taper, and an even flex pattern (like 8-9-8). Would be perfect for people like you and me who want to charge but also like to pop and spin off stuff.

Couldn't you ... mount the wren forward of the line?

[auvgeek]

Couldn't you ... mount the wren forward of the line?

Mounting the Wren +3 or +4 would be weird because of the sidecut and directional flex pattern. Plus, no twin for landing switch. The closest ski on the market is probably a skinny Praxis RX (but that has a ton of camber; not sure if Keith can make with flat camber). But I just love the feel of ON3P skis.

I currently ski a stiff Jeffrey 110, which is quite close to what I want (except I prefer the new reduced tail rocker on the K108) so I'm personally set until they die. I just really believe in this ski for people who are torn between the K108 and W108.

*steps off soapbox

[adrenalated]

The biggest difference between the two skis is the mount, so I think you probably want the Wren. But obviously try to demo first.

X2

The Wren does fine slowed down and playing around, if you're not skiing switch, thanks to the new tail rocker profile. It can charge, but it's not a full-on comp ski. (anymore)

[steveski]

I get stuck on these terms. I consider myself a playful skier, but I also like to ski fast and pretty much always in the forward direction. Depending on the run, company, conditions, and mood I jump, pop, bounce, slash, and sometimes spin off about everything in my path then point it and blast the chopped up crud as fast as I dare. Driving or centered stance based on situation (no technical or race background....so I don't really know I guess), carve big and small turns, and slarve too all pretty much in one direction. So am I a playful directional skier? What am I supposed to get? I read about funky hardpack elliptical sidecut issues with the Kartel (from some) and don't really need the twin tip or want the near centered mount, but then I'm worried the Wren will be too serious all the time and be angry when I slow it down and mess around. Probably I'm over thinking it and the skier matters more than the ski when it comes to skiing style. I think I want a playful charger. Is that the Kartel or Wren? Or is the Kartel more of a slightly chargy playful ski? It's hard to know which end of the spectrum would be better for me. Maybe I should just get both. I'm bored at work and ready for the weekend.

Kinda why I want to get a Kartel. All my other skis benefit from a traditional skiing style and I think it would be fun to have a jib ski to play around on in the future when I'm skiing with my son, nieces and nephews.

[optics]

But this is why I keep saying ON3P should make a ski with the current K108 rocker profile, 110 underfoot, progressively mounted, ~27 m radius with the bi-radius sidecut, minimal taper, and an even flex pattern (like 8-8.5-8 or something). Would be perfect for people like you and me who want to charge but also like to pop and spin

I’m in for a pair, too.

What’s the critical mass where it works? 10 pairs?

[wwwllw]

I’m in for a pair, too.

What’s the critical mass where it works? 10 pairs?

^^^Hell, I might be interested in a pair. I’ve been trying to decide what to get next year. I couldn’t make up my mind and figured I’d just get both or more likely the 98 version of one and 108 the other.

[mtskibum16]

The biggest difference between the two skis is the mount, so I think you probably want the Wren. But obviously try to demo first.

But this is why I keep saying ON3P should make a ski with the current K108 rocker profile, 110 underfoot, progressively mounted, ~27 m radius with the bi-radius sidecut, minimal taper, and an even flex pattern (like 8-8.5-8 or something). Would be perfect for people like you and me who want to charge but also like to pop and spin off stuff. Aevergreene got his pro model so I'm gonna keep pitching this.

Yeah, my perfect daily driver might be somewhere between the two. Maybe a slightly stiffened up K108 is pretty close. What is the W108 mount point from center? IIRC the K108 is like minus 4 from center. Seems like minus 6 to 8 might be my sweet spot on a 184/186 type ski. My guess is I'd be happy on either.

The Auvgeek pro model sounds pretty good too. I do like the idea of the bi-radius sidecut on said ski. 108, 110 meh, either one. I'm not sure on turning radius. My shortest ever is the 20.5 on my QLab, but it really doesn't feel that short. The Bibby at 24.5 feels a bit shorter for some reason. The 28.5 on my old Cochise....well that felt a bit boring on groomers at anything less than really fast, but that might have been more than just the turning radius. Mid 20 might be my ideal on this type of ski, but I don't feel too strongly about that.

I'm also planning on a BG, so there's a case to be made for sticking to the same style for both skis, but also a case for doing one directional (powder) charger and one playful all mountain ski. I had (have) the same dilemma with powder skis, but I already have a Bibby and am assuming it's closer to the K116 than the BG, so I'll add the BG and see what all the fuss is about.

[uglymoney]

Holy shit just took a run on my friends veneer Wren 88. What a fun ride! So intuitive. Blown away. Brahma killer. This ski likes to turn and on the chop we had today it was slicing and dicing. It is no Wren 98 in the chop but in a pinch it would do...and probably (certainly, for sure, definitely) a higher smile factor than the industry benchmark Blizzard for this class of ski.

I have a base edge beveler coming this week. Going to make sure my 98's are at 1. If they are they are going to 1.5. I am making them work but they still seem a little off. Edges are right there. I need a little more room to slarve the ski around. The 88's on the other hand seemed perfect with the factory tune.

The picture Wren 98, Wren 88, Wren 102. Groupies for sure.

Also 3 consecutive powder days here at Chestnut. So rare.



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So using a one degree SVST Final cut beveler tonight on the bases of my 98 custom Wrens. Marked the bottom of the edge with a magic marker. Taking off a ton of edge outside in. I think I found my problem especially after I skied my friends 88 Wrens and they felt so fucking perfect I couldn't stop smiling. Figured that is what the problem was.

[iggyskier]

Will there be another run of supergoats next year? Planning on watching for scraps but it sounds like everyone is loving theirs.

I lost patience trying to heard cats on organizing another run so we just built 12 more pairs with some of our favorite tops. Will post them up for sale soon.

Couldn't you ... mount the wren forward of the line?

You could....but you shouldn't.

I’m in for a pair, too.

What’s the critical mass where it works? 10 pairs?

A bit more than that, especially since we would have to go through a prototyping round or two with them. We had already gone through the design/testing phase with the SuperGoats, so a lot of the work to bring them to production was already done. I'm aware of the interest here. We'll see what happens.

So using a one degree SVST Final cut beveler tonight on the bases of my 98 custom Wrens. Marked the bottom of the edge with a magic marker. Taking off a ton of edge outside in. I think I found my problem especially after I skied my friends 88 Wrens and they felt so fucking perfect I couldn't stop smiling. Figured that is what the problem was.

Let us know if that solves it. Obviously our apologies if the base bevel wasn't enough. Skis go through multiple base bevel passes on a belt & then through a dual ceramic edge grinder (DTS-U Pro)....so for something to slip through with no base bevel would be difficult. Hope the bevel solves the issues and helps make the skis easier going for you. If not, let me know.

Also flex wise - as there was uncertainty in the comments above - there haven't been any significantly flex changes on the Wren line in the past couple years.

[uglymoney]

Let us know if that solves it. Obviously our apologies if the base bevel wasn't enough. Skis go through multiple base bevel passes on a belt & then through a dual ceramic edge grinder (DTS-U Pro)....so for something to slip through with no base bevel would be difficult. Hope the bevel solves the issues and helps make the skis easier going for you. If not, let me know.

Thanks iggy. They are beautiful skis. I'm pretty sure this is going to get them dialed in for me.

[thebrucemac]

Fence sitting be damned, just picked up a pair of W108's, can't wait....thanks Scott!

Black or yellow pivots with these? Probably black, eh?

[prsboogie]

Yellow

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[Supermoon]

White