Tyrolia Attack vs Look Pivot vs Salomon STH2 Bindings

[S.B.]

Having skied all three, I will say that I can't notice any difference once I am in the bindings. For me, it comes down to what I can get cheapest that works with the skis I am trying to mount.

[Flexon Phil]

One draw-back on the Attack. The new Attack 13 demo heel-piece is a six-screw setup...

No it doesn't. The new 2018 Attack demo has the same 4 hole pattern as the current one.

[Muggydude]

No it doesn't. The new 2018 Attack demo has the same 4 hole pattern as the current one.

Well this makes it possible for me to do what I said earlier. Have a pair of demos, and a pair of regular attacks.

Drill for regular attacks with the midsole mark where you think the ski will perform best. Install demos, confirm if the presumed best point is where you want to ski them. If it is, just take the demos off and install the normal version.

If you find you like a different mount point, just redrill the toes (heel track should have enough travel to accommodate without remount).

[Flexon Phil]

Well this makes it possible for me to do what I said earlier. Have a pair of demos, and a pair of regular attacks.

Drill for regular attacks with the midsole mark where you think the ski will perform best. Install demos, confirm if the presumed best point is where you want to ski them. If it is, just take the demos off and install the normal version.

If you find you like a different mount point, just redrill the toes (heel track should have enough travel to accommodate without remount).

At that point, I'd just leave the Attack on the ski. I have skied the same ski back to back with the Attack Demo and the retail version and could not discern a difference. The Attack Demo is a damn good binding.

[Climber Joe]

I personally hate the tyrolia heel. I feel like I have to crank my heel din 3 higher than any other binding to get the same retention. I tore something in my shoulder this winter walking out of an attack 13 mid carve.

I'll keep my px14/15s. They are the only bindings I ski anymore. That and tech bindings.

[Vitamin I]

I would bet damn good money you wouldn't be able to tell the the difference in a blind test. Between any of them.

I would take that bet.

I have never skied the STH2, but the manufacturer claims STH2 has rubber damping pads, and I know FOR SURE I can feel a big difference between Salomon 916 heel's rubber damping and FKS heel's lack of any damping. I dislike the FKS heel's "better on-snow feel", because when boot is in proper position (i.e. not lifting up into the elastic travel range), the FKS heel platform transmits nasty high frequency shock impulses into my feet when I ski hard on firm nasty snow (e.g. high speeds on teeth-chattering refrozen tracks, or straight-lining refrozen avy debris fields, haha, etc.). The 916 heel dampens out a lot of those nasty shock impulses, so maybe STH2 does too? (BTW, I can also feel that ZZLab 916 heels have no damping.)

Also, I know FOR SURE I can feel a big difference in FKS heel's elastic travel compared to 916 heels, so I'd bet there's likely a similar detectable difference for STH2. The FKS heel releases when 1) boot is at end of the elastic travel range (at the 28th millimeter above the deck) and 2) boot exerts the release value force while in that position, but I can feel the FKS heel moving around "a lot" within the elastic range when the boot exerts lower forces (feels lower than the release value to me) while boot is at or near the proper position (starting right on the deck, at the 0th millimeter of the elastic travel range). The result is FKS heel delivers undesirable low transmission for some pilot-intended controlling forces, while also delivering high transmission of the nasty shock impulses described above. Large range of elastic travel is not necessarily better if there's a big difference in spring force between the 2 endpoints of the range, and personally I dislike the FKS heel for that reason as well. Sure, I could crank up the release value to get higher transmission on the FKS heel, but then it wouldn't release when I want it to. Salomon metal heels deliver the transmission and damping that I like---my boot feels like it's either in or it's out, instead of being in limbo without transmission.

Also, maybe I could win the bet by landing switch while leaning to lift my heel up, and if brake arms rip off without the heel releasing, then it's probably the FKS heel with it's large elastic travel and brakes that engage near the upper end of the elastic travel range even without releasing.

Or to win the bet while blindfolded, I could just listen and pay attention to the feel while clicking in.

Yep, I am way biased in favor of skimaxpower's post:

[roQer]

As some of you guys confirmed, Pivot/FKS and STH do have some vertical release component at the toe. Pivots/FKS 14 have true vertical release, alright so far.
Do you really think, that this vertical component doesn't play a role in certain kind of rotational/rearward falls which might imply that bindings like Jester and Attack with pure lateral release at the toe have the same safety level? I like the Attacks as well but I'm at the same time a little bit concerned about it's potential inferiority in terms of safety.

[ScrewYou]

Whats up with the Jester Pros? Does the different toe make a big difference from the regular jester?

[straightlineorbust]

Whats up with the Jester Pros? Does the different toe make a big difference from the regular jester?

Don't have them, but was chatting with someone who rips and skis with them, said no. He was not a particular fan of the binding either, the toe piece was clearly all kinds of fucked up.

[ScrewYou]

Don't have them, but was chatting with someone who rips and skis with them, said no. He was not a particular fan of the binding either, the toe piece was clearly all kinds of fucked up.

Nice, thanks.

It seems people either love or hate the jesters. Im going to try out a pair of the pros, and compare them to Pivot 18s. I found them new for cheap, and was going to buy another pair, but may get Pivots instead.

[Muggydude]

This thread hardly helps my indecision over pivot 18 vs attack 16 for my Quixotes

[ScrewYou]

If you can afford pivots, definitely get them for Qs. There is a reason so many people swear by them. I only scooped the jester pros because they were cheaper, and for research purposes.

[galibier_numero_un]

This thread hardly helps my indecision over pivot 18 vs attack 16 for my Quixotes

Your idea of running an Attack demo to establish mounting position (and switching to Attacks after that) is provocative, and if I had any ISO 5355 boots, I'd be very tempted.

Running WTR boots for my inbounds rig, the Pivot remains at the top of my list - primarily because it allows for the option of getting a CAST setup (without drilling extra holes).

Does anyone know how wide the 115 brake is? Bending some of these mothers can be quite difficult, but I'm also thinking about flexibility if I decide to move these to another ski (initially, they're slated for Quixotes). I seem to recall that swapping breaks is doable, but that it's a bear.

... Thom

[auvgeek]

Does anyone know how wide the 115 brake is?

On the P18? I've fit the 115 brake on Rens @ 122 underfoot with slightly splaying. I would definitely run them on anything under 120 underfoot.

[mr_pretzel]

On the P18? I've fit the 115 brake on Rens @ 122 underfoot with slightly splaying. I would definitely run them on anything under 120 underfoot.

I have done exactly this, it requires just a little extra spreading when mounting and they fit no problem.

I have also fit the 95mm on viciks(108mm?) This is tighter than the above, but still works perfectly.

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks guys!

Edit:

Someone posted on Gear Swap about a shop named Corbetts (how appropriate) having Pivot 14's for $149.00. They're out of stock.

A search through Activejunky.com turned up a shop named Bob Wards selling them for 212.50. http://https://www.bobwards.com/. The rebate through Active Junky is 5% & shipping is free.

Note that through the activejunky search, "Marty's" comes up, but when you link there, it shows only B130's and they're out of stock.

... Thom

[XavierD]

The look single pivot toe piece (15 and 18 models) does not have vertical release. It has elastic upward travel but not enough to release. The full drive toe (14 and below) does have vertical release.

[Abol98]

Meanwhile you can get 2017my Tyrolias in Yrup at crazy prices. Ellis Brigham in the UK had it at ~$70 ex VAT last time I checked.

High fives and spirit fingers for tipdive - Ordered AAAtack 13s and 14s from Ellis Brigham on 4/21, they showed up yesterday as advertised. Wicked good steal.

My quest for a new travel ski now goes to a quest for two travel skis. So thanks... I think.

[Muggydude]

Still conflicted on bindings for my Qs. Can get attack 16s for $100, pivot 18s for $225. Trying to decide if the slightly better performance/feel/release is worth the extra weight and cost

[ScrewYou]

I bought a pair of both of those, at the same price, because I couldnt decide what to put on my Qs..

[Flexon Phil]

I bought a pair of both of those, at the same price, because I couldnt decide what to put on my Qs..

Having extra bindings around, is never a bad thing.

[ScrewYou]

I need more. I wish I was more like you in that regard.

I think I'm actually going to put Jester Pros on both my Rx and Quixote. That whammy bar will make me look more core in the lift line

Pivots going on Billy Goats, Attacks on my park skis (shreditors)

[jdadour]

Can anyone confirm the ramp delta of the STH2? I have searched extensively, and cannot get a conclusive answer.

[1000-oaks]

Pretty sure STH2 toe height is 18.4mm, heel is 24mm. About 5mm higher stack than STH basically.

[Not Neil_Armstrong]

Attachment 204581

I second this bad boy. I've had zero issue with the older style 13+ years ago still use them and the newest model today. But also own the Attacks and pivots. Pivots and Solly sure do have a apparent "snap" assurance that you're locked in.