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  1. #326
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by lucknau View Post
    Yeah, the plate is part of the brake assembly, it looks like, right?
    Yes, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by caulfield View Post
    Well you can, but the brakes go with it. It's the same heel on top of either plastic option. Leash time!
    Not quite there yet, will give em a few more days before deciding

  2. #327
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    713
    Quote Originally Posted by timmaio View Post
    They are very similar. The RT has three differences

    Magnetic heel flappers and uhv on toe, and toe has more material removed to make it lighter

    U.H.V. System (Up-hill Hardness Variator): system that allows to change the up-hill locking hardness of the toe part. It compensates the boot toe insert wear and tear during the years, provides a proper locking strenght for each user and reduces the pressures on the locking mechanism.
    Ok, thanks. Any idea about ramp?

  3. #328
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Breckenridge
    Posts
    664
    Quote Originally Posted by sf View Post
    Ok, thanks. Any idea about ramp?
    It should be exactly the same, but may have some slight discrepancy without checking both to be sure

  4. #329
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    713
    Quote Originally Posted by timmaio View Post
    It should be exactly the same, but may have some slight discrepancy without checking both to be sure
    Ok, but I was thinking about RT10/Crest vs RT2.0 and the Freeraiders.

  5. #330
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    2,119

    The 300g Touring Binding Thread

    ATK has to be one of the most confusing ranges out there. Coupled with the US import Hagen and BD debacle.

  6. #331
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    7,345
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    ATK has to be one of the most confusing ranges out there. Coupled with the US import Hagen and BD debacle.
    They first came to the US a while back branded as La Sportiva then quickly disappeared because of an epidemic of broken toe wings.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using TGR Forums mobile app

  7. #332
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    200
    Continuing with the ATK confusion, it looks like they have a more "normal" version of the Raider now they are calling the R12. That is a binding I want to buy.

    https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...tblue-2019-en/

  8. #333
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    9,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtlange View Post
    Continuing with the ATK confusion, it looks like they have a more "normal" version of the Raider now they are calling the R12. That is a binding I want to buy.

    https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...tblue-2019-en/
    I recently sort of suggested that one to a friend who might be scared of the front binding brake of the Raider 2.0. I say sort of suggested, because you NEVER buy an AT binding the first year it's sold to the public.
    So to help with the "confusion", just got to the ATK site when interested, and then see if the same thing is carried by Hagen or BD, then if you like it, buy it from Telemark-Pyrenees, or wherever, and then source parts from the US brands, (not that you'll ever need parts).
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  9. #334
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    I recently sort of suggested that one to a friend who might be scared of the front binding brake of the Raider 2.0. I say sort of suggested, because you NEVER buy an AT binding the first year it's sold to the public.
    So to help with the "confusion", just got to the ATK site when interested, and then see if the same thing is carried by Hagen or BD, then if you like it, buy it from Telemark-Pyrenees, or wherever, and then source parts from the US brands, (not that you'll ever need parts).
    Totally with you on that. Im not scared of the front brake per say, I just like the look of that toe a little more. Also, neither Hagan or BD have that binding on their site. I just sent an email to Hagan asking if they were going to get that in this year, which I doubt they will. Also, I wonder if the brake eliminates the need for the freeride spacer. Im very curious.

  10. #335
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    9,023
    From the site, it's optional:
    New FREERIDE SPACER ( optional ): with this new accessory, we covered and exceeded the gap in between tech and apline bindings providing an astonishing downhill performance.
    So I think it's implied that the brake does not replace the spacer.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  11. #336
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    200
    Wait, sorry, I think the link I posted earlier was the original Raider binding? Is that correct?

  12. #337
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
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    9,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtlange View Post
    Wait, sorry, I think the link I posted earlier was the original Raider binding? Is that correct?
    Dude. That binding, the RT12 is new for this season. Read the description:
    Developing the new RAIDER family has been the hardest challenge in the whole ATKģ company life. How to improve our R12 2.0 collection?

    The new “R12” family shows 4 different productive Technologies and 6 ATKģ Patents, among which the new Snow Pack Proof Systemģ which avoids the snow, ice or debris entrance under the toe piece locking mechanism.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  13. #338
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    Dude. That binding, the RT12 is new for this season. Read the description:
    Yep, youre right. Reading comprehension is poor today. Thanks,

  14. #339
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
    Posts
    2,880
    Bumping this. The new ATK line really LOOKS great.

    R12 or FR14 or even the crest 10.
    https://www.atkbindings.com/en/produ...ee-touring-en/

    Only the crest 10 has a hagen counterpart - the pure 10.
    https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...ure-10-binding

    https://www.atkbindings.com/wp-conte.../r12_rev04.pdf

    Things I want to know:
    -what is the delta between pin heights? I care more about this

    Things I know:
    -330-360g with brakes.
    -3 riser heights
    -seemingly simple system/mechanism for brake retraction while touring

    Things I think I know, but I want one of the engineers to agree or disagree.
    -minimal elasticity, probably a typically harsh tech binding ride
    -more likely to cause a tib/fib than an ACL injury. No lateral toe release like a vipec/tecton.



    Trying to choose a binding in this class is proving difficult. I want brakes, a flat-ish ramp, 300g class weight, and good ease of use.

    I am sensitive to ramp angle, so the xenic is out.
    I am sensitive to bindings breaking for no good reason, so I'm leery of the Zed.
    I am sensitive to being markered, but the alpinist reviews seem very good. Flat ramp is nice.
    And then there's the ATK family. Which I don't know enough about yet.

    Alpinist also is very easily obtained here in the states and cheaper than the others. But then it's...marker...

    What would the mags do?
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  15. #340
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    546
    Ive spent a few hundred days on the Freeraider 14 2.0 over the last couple years, and love them. I trust their release and durability more than any touring binding out there.
    I havenít skied the new FR series, but have played with them in person, and generally approve of the changes.
    I have no idea (nor do I care) about ramp angle, but Iíve found their customer service to be excellent, so I recommend emailing them. Itís a small company, so youíll probably be connected with their engineer / designer, who can answer anything.

  16. #341
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    713
    I don't know about the delta on the new ones, but I have a hard time imagening that it's less than on the old ones. The brake pads get on the way of that, is my guess.

    The old 12 could be shimmed with atks own toe adjustment paf, bringing it down to 6mm-ish.
    Last edited by sf; 11-16-2019 at 01:51 AM.

  17. #342
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    FR&CH
    Posts
    277
    Pretty sure the shim for the old 12 would work on the crest, but not the new 12

  18. #343
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Oberstdorf
    Posts
    192
    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    From the site, it's optional:

    So I think it's implied that the brake does not replace the spacer.
    Brake pedestal does not replace Freeride spacer on either r12 or r14. That is why the r14 comes with those extra spacers, which when mounted have a sliding afds and are independent of the brake pedestal. The height adjument is then hidden by the sliding afds. Lots of moving parts...... Optionally you can run the spacer AL09.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #344
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Bumping this. The new ATK line really LOOKS great.

    R12 or FR14 or even the crest 10.
    https://www.atkbindings.com/en/produ...ee-touring-en/

    Only the crest 10 has a hagen counterpart - the pure 10.
    https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...ure-10-binding

    https://www.atkbindings.com/wp-conte.../r12_rev04.pdf

    Things I want to know:
    -what is the delta between pin heights? I care more about this

    Things I know:
    -330-360g with brakes.
    -3 riser heights
    -seemingly simple system/mechanism for brake retraction while touring

    Things I think I know, but I want one of the engineers to agree or disagree.
    -minimal elasticity, probably a typically harsh tech binding ride
    -more likely to cause a tib/fib than an ACL injury. No lateral toe release like a vipec/tecton.



    Trying to choose a binding in this class is proving difficult. I want brakes, a flat-ish ramp, 300g class weight, and good ease of use.

    I am sensitive to ramp angle, so the xenic is out.
    I am sensitive to bindings breaking for no good reason, so I'm leery of the Zed.
    I am sensitive to being markered, but the alpinist reviews seem very good. Flat ramp is nice.
    And then there's the ATK family. Which I don't know enough about yet.

    Alpinist also is very easily obtained here in the states and cheaper than the others. But then it's...marker...

    What would the mags do?
    MTN lab not being considered? Guess a bit heavier than you're looking. Mine are 400g screws, brakes all in

  20. #345
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    4,336
    Quote Originally Posted by oetk2 View Post
    MTN lab not being considered? Guess a bit heavier than you're looking. Mine are 400g screws, brakes all in
    Just guessing, but with his stated concern about tib/fib, maybe it's about not having a fine adjust for lateral release?

    I know they'd be on my sort list if it weren't for that.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  21. #346
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
    Posts
    2,880
    Itís the ramp. Thatís what I donít like about the mtn. The heels are 9mm taller than the toe. No thanks.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  22. #347
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    4,336
    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Itís the ramp. Thatís what I donít like about the mtn. The heels are 9mm taller than the toe. No thanks.
    Shimming is easy.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  23. #348
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    321
    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Itís the ramp. Thatís what I donít like about the mtn. The heels are 9mm taller than the toe. No thanks.
    Could you do without brakes? Itís flatter with heel piece mounted directly to ski


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  24. #349
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
    Posts
    2,880

    The 300g Touring Binding Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by caulfield View Post
    Could you do without brakes? Itís flatter with heel piece mounted directly to ski


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Could I? Yes.

    Even been touring with someone you swear was dumb enough to lose a ski?

    That might be me. I might be a brakes and leashes cat.

    But mostly, I just hate looking like a complete idiot trying to transition to ski mode and being unable to get into the damn binding. Brakes seem to help.

    And yes.
    I can shim. I shimmed my vipecs and tectons. Would rather not have to add weight to a 300g clamp.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  25. #350
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    4,336
    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    ... That might be me. I might be a brakes and leashes cat.
    I've been thinking of carrying a light set of leashes (for sketchy transitions) with skis that I normally run with brakes.

    Tired an fumbly at the top, with a transition where brakes don't do much good, and the weather is crappy - a combination that sets me up for a stupid moment.

    The sketchy nature of clicking into my Vipec Blacks got me to thinking about this last year.

    Maybe it's just simpler to ditch the brakes on these skis and go with leashes on all of my skis ... or, as you said, go with the belts and braces approach.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

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