I hate Utah law enforcement!

[Buzzworthy]

Originally posted by Mountain Junkie
While we're on topic, does anyone know what the bootlegging law limits are in Utah?

5 gallons across state lines INTO Utah for personal consumption. Now that is all I know for one person in the car and that equates to about 2.5 cases (based on homebrewing). I live 2 miles from Idaho and this is what I was TOLD, so I too am not totally sure.

Time to Google.

[teledave]

Originally posted by flykdog
i thought you had to fail a roadside sobriety test before they could force you blow or piss.

"force" is an interesting term. TN has an implied consent law, (loosely) meaning that by driving on its roadways you have given you're implied consent for them to ask you for a sobriety test. You may refuse to do so but then you are also giving up your driving priveleges in the state (i.e. your license is suspended for at least a year). In most cases you will not be asked to blow for a BAC test without failing a field sobriety test because it makes the prosecutions case more difficult. As far as a piss drug test I really have no idea how that applies.

Several states now have statutes on the books that allow "forced" testing under certain circumstances (usually vehicular homicide), and by "forced" I mean as many state troopers as it takes to hold you down while a tech draws your blood forced. This is being talked about as being the next federally mandated state law or else they jack your state's highway funds.

[powder11]

a buddy of mine was busted with a keg coming back from evanston. he got a "bootlegging" ticket. cop was waiting on the border for people with fireworks and/or kegs.

[Buzzworthy]

Originally posted by BobMc
What pisses me off is the fact I'm being charged with a DUI on the basis of a pee test.

Marijuana can stay in your system and show up in a test for quite some time. I hadn't smoked in at least three hours. I wasn't swerving, I wasn't speeding. I was driving down the road minding my own business.

On the basis of this law you could have smoked pot weeks ago, get pulled over and tested. Once tested positive you are deemed to be under the influence.

I'm not sure if you have smoked pot before, but I'm quite sure you must agree the effects wear off far before it chemically leaves your system.

BobMc

Exactly, and that is why they find you gulity. I had an old friend about 5 years ago get tagged for possesion, possesion of a pipe, and suspected DUI.
The pipe had some in it and apparently he only had a bowls worth in another spot not accesible from the drivers seat, thus no eating it. He was pulled over for, ironically, expired plates. The kid had tinting on his windows and the cop had to test that (reason to come close and smell inside). The cop said he detected the odor of smoked Mary Jane and asked him if he had anything illegal in the car. Since he said he was working all day with a bowl of resin in the car, it reeked and so the kid said yes. Dumb. I doubt he would make that mistake again.

Well, he pleaded and got just possesion and Reckless Driving, Alcohol related. I don't the alcohol part as he had not had a drop to drink.

He got a blood test at the station, not a piss test. The cop said if it is positive, its a DUI, regardless of how long it has been in your system. Well, he did not smoke that day, but did the night before. Obviously it came up positive.

Bottom Line:

$550 for the bowl with resin
$550 for Reckless Driving
10 days in Jail or 80 Hours Community Service
Lost License for 1 year
Towed car and Impound: $200

Lawyer and court fees: $1000
Insurance did not go to the High Risk though, just a bit more.

I am not going to get into the symantecs of what is right and wrong. Legal is legal, illegal is illegal. It is simply taken to such an extreme in Utah it is unreal.

Nothern Utah, Southern Utah, its all the same.

Edit: Sentenced to drug counsel and pee tests for 6 months, probation for 6 months. Nother $500 easy.
Stays on record for 10 years, then can be expunged in Utah as long as you have nothing for that ten years as far as violations.
Another DUI turns the previous Reckess charge back into the first DUI so now you get two.

Just wanted to share a story of how it can be in Utah.

[altagirl]

Originally posted by teledave

Several states now have statutes on the books that allow "forced" testing under certain circumstances (usually vehicular homicide), and by "forced" I mean as many state troopers as it takes to hold you down while a tech draws your blood forced. This is being talked about as being the next federally mandated state law or else they jack your state's highway funds.

That's how they do it in Germany for any suspected DUI (or at least that's what I was told during the 4 years I lived there). Except that it was explained to me in drivers orientation that if you refuse, you're going to get dragged out of your car, probably get your ass beat in the process, and then they'll hold you down while they take the blood sample anyway. Never ran into anyone who experienced it personally, but I wouldn't have been inspired to refuse a test, either.

[iceman]

A few years a go a Masshole friend of mine was driving back from Boston, decided he was too drunk to drive, pulled over and went to sleep. Woke up to a Statie shining a flashliht through the window. Keys in the ignition is good enough for drunk driving in Mass., I dunno about anywhere else. And his keys were in hte ignition.

Statie administers field sobriety and he passes with flying colors (he'd been asleep for hours). Has him do a blow test, he passes that too, although not by much.

Cop wants to search the car, Mike (my friend) lets him (not that he had too much choice at that point). Statie finds a bong, a one hitter, two pipes and like five packs of papers. Lines it all up on hte car roof.

Statie says, "Michael, I am going to search your car very thoroughly now. It would be very much in your interest to tell me if there is any dope in this car." But Mike had been dry for weeks, he knew there wasn't a flake in there. "Go ahead officer."

So the cop searches and searches and comes up empty. Not even a seed. When he was done searching he looks at Mike and says (My favorite cop line ever): "Michael, put your portable head shop back in your car, and get out of my sight."

I always thought that was pretty cool of the guy.

[powder11]

Originally posted by iceman
(My favorite cop line ever): "Michael, put your portable head shop back in your car, and get out of my sight."

I always thought that was pretty cool of the guy.

thats the one thing i do like about living in boston, you have to fuck up really bad to get arrested.

[mildbill.]

Originally posted by iceman
Keys in the ignition is good enough for drunk driving in Mass.,

pops always advises me that if you're passed out and there aer keys ANYWHERE in the car that's good enough for DUI.

[Woodsy]

Originally posted by iceman


Cop wants to search the car, Mike (my friend) lets him (not that he had too much choice at that point). .

he did have a choice, seriously.

cop asks, say no. I have done it it works.

"no, dont really have time, sorry."

the answer to can i search your_____________
is always NO!

even if you think you are clean god knows what may have fallen out of your friends pocket or been stashed by someone.

there is NO REASON to let anyone search your car sans warrant.

[The Reverend Floater]

My favorite cop line, said to me one late night in highschool at a neighborhood park:

As I tried to walk away with a brand new Graphix tucked in my pants and under my shirt....

Hey BONGMAN! Where do you think you're going with that guy? I'll tell you....no where until it's broken in this trashcan!

...Cop smiles and taps steel can with nightstick.

Pretty cool cop, actually.

[Mountainman]

Originally posted by Woodsy
he did have a choice, seriously.

cop asks, say no. I have done it it works.

"no, dont really have time, sorry."

the answer to can i search your_____________
is always NO!

even if you think you are clean god knows what may have fallen out of your friends pocket or been stashed by someone.

there is NO REASON to let anyone search your car sans warrant.

While being pulled over for drinking this weekend we were sitting there and the cop asked if he could search the vehicle. We asked what would happen if we said no and he said that he would right us up for obstruction because he could not complete his investigation.

[BobMc]

Originally posted by Woodsy
he did have a choice, seriously.

cop asks, say no. I have done it it works.

"no, dont really have time, sorry."

the answer to can i search your_____________
is always NO!

even if you think you are clean god knows what may have fallen out of your friends pocket or been stashed by someone.

there is NO REASON to let anyone search your car sans warrant.

I wasn't given a choice, I wasn't asked. My wife was ordered out of the vehicle, the officer then began rummaging through my truck.

BobMc

[KQ]

Here'a a link I found that has some interesting explinations on it. It even mentions a "Terry Stop."


Free Advice

[lemon boy]

Bob-

I get the feeling there's more to it but...

Proper response:

Sir, you do not have my permission to search the car.
Sir, please do not search my car.
Sir, please stop searching my car.

Once the have PC then you're pretty well fukked. At that point telling them they can't search your car is a mere formality. Once they've decided they have PC then you are SCREWED search wise. Doing things "right" makes that MUCH more difficult for them to prove.

Also, if you are not free to go as you please then you are UNDER ARREST. Make them arrest you before any search if it comes to that. You've screwed up if they search anything and find something they can arrest you for. Also, know the number of a lawyer (in your cell) and start calling them SOONER rather than later.

[Woodsy]

Originally posted by BobMc
I wasn't given a choice, I wasn't asked. My wife was ordered out of the vehicle, the officer then began rummaging through my truck.

BobMc

tell scott that


seriously i got popped speeding in western CO,
yadda yadda ticket, etc.
"can I search your car

no sir

you hiding something?

no

I can gt a warrant.

sir I doubt either one of us has time for that, Ive got nothing to hide but really want to get home to my folks.

alright just keep it under the limit."

my roomie in Basalt & 2 friends are driving to Denver for a show
my roomie pulls a stupid maneuver & gets popped.

cop walks up asks for licence & reg,

D says alright but FYI "when I open this glovebox you are going to see my gun"
sure enough gun falls out cop wigs, calls back up.

so the dude in the back of the car is a dealer, serious dealer, prolly got 4 different drugs on him bagged for sale plus his personal ( bet rad & KM could say his name just by reading this), he s sweatin
so ticket is written gun registry is checked,
can I search your car.

sorry officer we are late to Denver already"

go on then drive safe."


you have rights if they are violated the cop is ruining their bust.

WHY DO YOU THINK THEY ASK!?!?!?

if they did not have to they wouldn't!!!

[BobMc]

As I've said, I know marijuana is illegal, I'm ok with the possession charge.

The DUI is another matter. To make matters worse the officer told my wife (who was also charged with possession) that she couldn't drive my truck off, but... He wouldn't be watching it to see who drives it off.

So, I was charged with a DUI, she was charged with possession. He wink/winked her letting her drive, knowing full well she had been in possession as well.

Obviously the DUI is a great revenue stream.

BobMc

[lemon boy]

That's the part that gets people every time.

You are conditioned to OBEY authority figures.

When a cop "asks" you if they can search, 99.9999% of people think they are being ORDERED to submit to the search. Nope, they're asking if they can do it because they have a "hunch" (less than PC). The implicit threat is that if you don't submit then they'll dick with you until a K9 unit can arrive or they get a warrant.

That also is bullshit, once you're not free to go (waiting on a dog or warrant) then you are under ARREST, make em either arrest you or you can flat leave (if they're really gonna get a warrant or a dog they'll just pull you over later).

It is all a big BLUFF.

[The Clash]
Know your rights
[/The Clash]

[Crinkle]

Originally posted by BobMc
As I've said, I know marijuana is illegal, I'm ok with the possession charge.

The DUI is another matter. To make matters worse the officer told my wife (who was also charged with possession) that she couldn't drive my truck off, but... He wouldn't be watching it to see who drives it off.

So, I was charged with a DUI, she was charged with possession. He wink/winked her letting her drive, knowing full well she had been in possession as well.

Obviously the DUI is a great revenue stream.

BobMc

so they pulled you over for expired tags and ordered you out of the car and then started searching it? Then they found stuff and ordered you to take wiz quiz?

Not trying to shoot holes in your story. But if that is how it happened, that sux donkey balls. And you have a serious case against them. I don't think expired tags give probable cause.

once agian my condolences for your untimely run in with the law. As many of us here can/could relate at one time or another.

[Pinner]

It's unbleivable how stupid people can be.

When a cop asks, "Do you know why I pulled you over, sir?" it's because half the time people will say things like, "It's cuzza the unlicensed handgun under mah seat, raight?"

How about the guy who consents to a search knowing full well there's a 40lb bale of sativa in there???

I feel for ya Mc Bob. I have friends who will never, EVER set foot in UT again after being hassled by cops as college kids. These are grownups with substantial incomes who take their families everywhere BUT Utah for vacations.

Just yesterday we were talking about "Under the Banner of Heaven" and this discussion just adds to my general contempt of the dominant paradigm in UT.

[BobMc]

He claimed he smelled marijuana. Ordered my wife out of the car, (he was at her window) and began searching.

Like I keep saying, I'm not whining about the possession charge. I'm guilty plain and simple.

BobMc

[KQ]

Originally posted by lemon boy
That's the part that gets people every time.

You are conditioned to OBEY authority figures.

When a cop "asks" you if they can search, 99.9999% of people think they are being ORDERED to submit to the search. Nope, they're asking if they can do it because they have a "hunch" (less than PC). The implicit threat is that if you don't submit then they'll dick with you until a K9 unit can arrive or they get a warrant.

That also is bullshit, once you're not free to go (waiting on a dog or warrant) then you are under ARREST, make em either arrest you or you can flat leave (if they're really gonna get a warrant or a dog they'll just pull you over later).

It is all a big BLUFF.

[The Clash]

Know your rights
[/The Clash]

LOL!!! Reminds me of a time....when I was younger (so many moons ago).....a bunch of us girls were riding our horses in a public park within the Seattle city limits (on the soccer field) when a cop came after us with his siren on and lights flashing.

He drove his up on the grass in front of us to try and block our path. Then he threatened to impound our horses. You can imagine how scared a group of 12 yo girls would be at the thought of their horses being taken away. Well one of the girls just looked at him and said "don't give me that bullshit, you're not going to bring a trailer out here to get our horses" and rode off. We all followed and because we were cutting through the woods back to our stable he couldn't chase us.

Sometimes you've got to just say "no."

[13]

Woodsy is absolutely correct.

It's simple ... always say no when a cop asks to search you/your car/your home without a warrant. ALWAYS.

I dunno why it's such a hard concept for some people to grasp, but it is.

[lemon boy]

Bob- I feel for you, unfortunately him smelling pot = probable cause = out the car and on the street.

I do also recognize that you're whining ( )about the dewwy not the possession charge and I do agree 100% that it is a BS law (because of their regular contact with drugs cops are in violation all the time given how the UT law is written).

http://www.livepublish.le.state.ut.u...-frame.htm&2.0

[1080Rider]

I promise I know what I'm talking about. Read my posts. All the answers are there.

[Samwich]

Originally posted by Dantheman
Fine, but being established still doesn't make them just. At least admit that this was a waste of resources that should have been used to fight the myriad of much more serious crimes going on that day.

seriously! I understand that it is illegal to possess marijuana. Just because it's a law, though, doesn't mean that it is reasonable.

There have been some seriously fucked up laws since the conception of this country. Ever heard of the 3/5ths compromise? Yeah, that particular law declared that black people were not full people. One black man was legally declared to be 3/5ths of a white man.

Of course, the 3/5ths compromise is a lot more fucked up than pot being illegal, but they bear comparison because they are both laws that make no sense, and should not be laws in the first place.