2008-2009 Colorado Snowpack Observations

**FrankZappa** · 12-07-2007, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Hacksaw

Does he mean "one body weight," being just stepping on to the block or one jump on the block????

In eaither case NOT a good Rutschblock score....

It was a one jump

**lemon boy** · 12-07-2007, 04:35 PM

looks like the temps are finally headed toward midwinter. I hate it when it gets all cold and light and falls on top of somewhat denser snow from previous days....

**Hacksaw** · 12-07-2007, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by FrankZappa

It was a one jump

D'ohhhhh!!!!!!

Just got a call, they cancelled the S&R Avalanche School this weekend, since traffic maybe a mess. And since lots of self-propelled mobile avalanche triggers will be headed out into the backcountry this weekend......

**~mikey b** · 12-07-2007, 08:20 PM

come up to Vail Pass anyway - my boys would love to spend some time in the field with you - small group

**Hacksaw** · 12-07-2007, 10:21 PM

On a "powder weekend?" And with I-70 totally screwed up? maybe on a weekday.....

**Foggy_Goggles** · 12-08-2007, 07:40 AM

Shovel compression scores

1-5 "from the wrist"

full failure to the facets

NW aspect at and BTL

be safe

don't die

**Below Zero** · 12-08-2007, 02:26 PM

Northwest facing slope - Berthoud Pass - Hell's Half Acre Trees

105 cm deep snowpack. 75 cm new snow on facets.

25 degree slope - shovel compression test - failed at fourth hit from elbow, all the way down to the facets.

**Rontele** · 12-08-2007, 04:31 PM

BZ,

We were up at the pass today too. Observations. Roughly 30 inches of snow out of this last cycle. Sitting on top of about 10 inches of facets. Interestingly, there are some spots (Floral Park, 90s) where the facets are present, but not doing much in terms of settling, cracking, or whoomphing.

However, between the 80s and 90s, due north facing is a snowpack nightmare. Below the new snow is a completely unsupportable facet layer. There was tremendous whoomphing, and settling. We sympathetically set off a slide (will get picture up later)

3.5 foot crown, 100 yards wide, ran roughly 200 yards, ran to the ground. At the time we were skiing in an area that had slid probably yesterday and the slide broke roughly 100 yards from us on another slope. THankfully, nobody was injured, but goes to show that there are some serious problems lurking below the snowpack.

Other than that, the skiing was mint.

**montanaskier** · 12-09-2007, 07:34 PM

wow...what a storm! That is why we moved, not so much for the snow, but because I was able to ski for a couple hours on Friday, all day Sat, and Sunday until our legs stopped working.

Super excited about our hut trip this weekend. Looks like a continued stormy pattern. Don't know how much skiing we will get in this weekend, the weekend is more about Avy training than skiing. Rontele, anything major lurking?

**~mikey b** · 12-09-2007, 08:03 PM

why don't you go over and ask him in the amatuer-weather-man-circle-jerk thread?

or check the NWS

I'm just saying.............

**Rontele** · 12-09-2007, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by telemike

why don't you go over and ask him in the amatuer-weather-man-circle-jerk thread?

or check the NWS

I'm just saying.............

montanaskier, there is a discussion thread over in the Snow and Weather forum. Now that the snow has fallen, lets keep this thread clean with snow conditions and reports.

**~mikey b** · 12-10-2007, 07:18 AM

oh yeah - snow and avalanche obs....

whoomphing, collapsing and cracking on all aspects and elevations at Vail Pass yesterday - avalanche activity observed at Black Lakes - things were fracturing mid-slope in the trees, wrapping around corners and terrain features - very reactive snow stablity tests kept a party on low-angle terrain on Uneva Peak - some BOLD highmarking on Shrine Bowl w/o results (volunteer slope stability testers)

**freejustin** · 12-10-2007, 08:55 AM

12-8-07, Jones Pass

Below treeline, some cracking and several very large whoomphs. On our short tour, however, short and steep test slopes on E faces (remember this is pretty low elevation) were generally showing minimal signs of instability. Quick hand pits revealed zero-trace amounts of old snow and facets under the new storm snow.

I think it's good to remember that even during a cycle like we're experiencing now, it's possible to find pockets of stability. That good ol' spatial variability thing. Look at it objectively, take it for what it's worth, and don't get trapped into thinking other slopes have similar conditions.

Good thread... keep it up!

**~mikey b** · 12-10-2007, 04:37 PM

good advice - not worth scaring folks out of the backcountry

you can always find safe snow

to me, managing terrain is the most important part of safe skiing in the backcountry

avalanche triangle = terrain + weather + snowpack

YOU are the human factor. YOU are the potential trigger. YOU are the potential victim or rescuer.

I'm not a meteorologist or a snow scientist. I focus on where I go, and where the people I am with go. If we make good decisions about where and how we climb and ski, we can reduce our chances of becoming involved in an avalanche.

Listen to the snow scientists and listen to the meteorologists and try to make good decisions about where and how you want to ski.

watch the movie "A Dozen More Turns" if you haven't already

http://www.lifeonterra.com/episode.php?id=77
http://www.lifeonterra.com/episode.php?id=78
http://www.lifeonterra.com/episode.php?id=79

**~mikey b** · 12-10-2007, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rontele

montanaskier, there is a discussion thread over in the Snow and Weather forum. Now that the snow has fallen, lets keep this thread clean with snow conditions and reports.

by the way - I'm not runnin' this thread - Rontele is - he has the right to tell me to fuck off any time - weather is certainly pertinent to snowpack and weather obs, and I don't want to diss Dave for spending time analysing the weather, but it seemed like this was becoming the "read me The Weather Channel" thread at a certain point

**freejustin** · 12-10-2007, 04:56 PM

Can someone link me to this "Snow and Weather Forum"??? Is this a separate thread?

EDIT: Nevermind. Just found it. Didn't realize there was a separate category in the forum!

**pechelman** · 12-10-2007, 05:00 PM

i like the weather in this thread
its all part of the puzzle

id also like to point out that since its started to snow, there have been a lot more snowpack observations from everyone.

theres not much to talk about in the snowpack equation besides weather when its not snowing. (ie november)

**Rontele** · 12-11-2007, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by telemike

by the way - I'm not runnin' this thread - Rontele is - he has the right to tell me to fuck off any time - weather is certainly pertinent to snowpack and weather obs, and I don't want to diss Dave for spending time analysing the weather, but it seemed like this was becoming the "read me The Weather Channel" thread at a certain point

Nah. We'll keep the techy, geeky stuff in the Snow Conditions forum and post pertinent information regarding weather/snowpack here.

For example, we have been fortunate that this last storm fell with little or no wind. However, there appears to be a fairly good shortwave that should kick through Thursday night into Friday. As it strengthens across the forecast area, winds should increase. There is a lot of new snow to transport, so folks will have to be extra leery come this weekend as starting zones will have an extra load.

is that okay?

And mike, I totally agree with your approach to backcountry skiing and safety. I think it is the safest way to approach it without being overwhelmed by the science...

**~mikey b** · 12-11-2007, 09:06 AM

the annoying part to me is the constant handwringing

sorry montanaskier, but the 3 overnight posts whining about the lack of overnight snow is annoying

weather is pertinent to snowpack, but we don't need a snow report from your deck every time you get up to pee

**Rontele** · 12-11-2007, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by telemike

the annoying part to me is the constant handwringing

sorry montanaskier, but the 3 overnight posts whining about the lack of overnight snow is annoying

weather is pertinent to snowpack, but we don't need a snow report from your deck every time you get up to pee

I have yet to see ANYONE get more butt hurt over weather than montanaskier.

montanaskier = Pwn3d.

**Harv** · 12-11-2007, 11:09 AM

I will post more details regarding Monarch Pass after tomorrow morning's tour but the word around town from two of my main ski partners and the head of patrol is the stability around here is unprecedented. No one can get anything to move in the Cat skiing area and one friend skied about the steepest thing we ski around here in the BC yesterday with no sloughing or any sort of cracking, fracturing, anything.

Basically we had no snow, then we got a shit pile of very wet snow and the wind has yet to blow. Now all of this could be changing right now with upslope and new snow, but my guess is that we will continue to experience stability in the first 4 feet of the pack for a little while around here.

We just don't have that normal, hollow, shallow, cold snowpack around here right now.

All that being said this is so uncharacteristic I am still going to move carefully tomorrow until I see it for myself. I would say I am cautiously optimistic right now about being able to ski some exposed lines in this locale at least until things change significantly.

**montanaskier** · 12-11-2007, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by telemike

the annoying part to me is the constant handwringing

sorry montanaskier, but the 3 overnight posts whining about the lack of overnight snow is annoying

weather is pertinent to snowpack, but we don't need a snow report from your deck every time you get up to pee

Noted.......everyone has a vice, freaking about weather is mine for sure. No more posts about the weather or lack thereof.

**Harv** · 12-12-2007, 02:23 PM

Monarch this morning was arguably the best backcountry conditions I have skied around here in 10 years. We dug a pit to the ground and found essentially three layers:

Top-6" of new, light snow

Mid Pack- 40" of super consolidated snow from the big system

Base- 12" of snow from the first system maybe 10 days ago.

No tg to speak of at all.

Shovel shear produced nothing, at any level and this stratification was pretty subtle. Basically the most bomber pack I have ever seen on Monarch.

So the disclaimer is the wind was blowing like a mother fucker this morning up there and with more snow on the way things will undoubtedly change. And this is for one east-northeast facing aspect approx 11,500' so don't quote me on it if you go out this weekend and get yourself buried and you are a Western State student with a brand new beacon and 8 hours of training.

**smitchell333** · 12-12-2007, 06:16 PM

^^^^
Good to hear .and thanks for the info. I suspect places where no snow existed will be less unstable than others ones - as evidenced by the CAIC avy rose up north - south facing slopes have a low danger.

My $.02 - the arguing about whether we should have weather forecasting in this thread is the only thing more annoying than the actual weather forecasting.

Here is my Obs;

Loveland Pass 12/11

Inverted below treeline, mixed bag above treeline. The skiing is great but the danger is high on anything steep and untouched as whumphing, cracking, etc are all still there. Soon we'll be talking about "bridging" over the instabilities - basically when you are less likely to penetrate down into the pack to where the weak layers are, then you'll be less likely to trigger a slide. Problem with this is when/if you do penetrate and/or otherwise trigger a slide its the whole enchilada, but thats typical for us.

**~mikey b** · 12-14-2007, 08:55 PM

got out for a quick tour this morning at VP - skied to the cell tower and out the ridge - snow is quieter and less reactive than last week, but still observed whoomphing, collapsing, and cracking - quick pit and stability tests at 12k on 32 degree, NE slope - 103cm total snow, new snow on top of snow of increasing density as you head to the ground UNTIL the well formed depth hoar at 35cm to the ground - CTE and STV both failed on the facets above the ground

forgot the pics at work......