abasin expansion

**grskier** · 11-23-2016, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

^^^ good to know, the other accidents must be between 1982 and 96/97. CAIC only has accident reports going back to 96/97 published online.

Bro, this is TGR, we expect you to go search some old laser fishe to find this out.

**adrenalated** · 11-23-2016, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by grskier

Bro, this is TGR, we expect you to go search some old laser fishe to find this out.

I'll get after that as soon as I finish alphabetizing my 3-1/2" floppy disks.

Besides people didn't ski out of bounds before the internet and social media, we all know that.

**summit** · 11-23-2016, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by grskier

Bro, this is TGR, we expect you to go search some old laser fishe to find this out.

I'll look through my snowy torrents collection when I get back to the states

**Name Redacted** · 11-23-2016, 05:55 PM

CAIC doesn't cover every avalanche accident either. I can think of quite a few that aren't listed on their site from the early 2000's. Very few actual deaths in the Beavers, mostly in the Steep Gullies.

**adrenalated** · 11-23-2016, 07:03 PM

I thought all fatal accidents were listed but I could be wrong?

They definitely don't list all incidents where someone was caught, even when they are reported.

**Name Redacted** · 11-23-2016, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

I thought all fatal accidents were listed but I could be wrong?

They definitely don't list all incidents where someone was caught, even when they are reported.

Actually, they are missing quite a few from what I can tell, even a few that had fatalities. Snowy Torrents doesn't have everything either. Some things just slipped through the cracks I guess.

But still, using accidents in the area to give them an excuse to expand is dumb. AB needs to expand parking, not terrain.

**GPP33** · 11-23-2016, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by The SnowShow

Seriously, that's lame.

It will be interesting to see about the gullies. I'm assuming as much as the East Wall is open?

Probably a lot more than east wall since it's not as exposed to the wind and I don't believe has as many massive boulders to bury. That traverse they have planned to go right across the middle of em should be pretty fkn sweet though. Snow boarder post holes, 200vf of beater traverse lines. Sweet!

**Benny Profane** · 11-23-2016, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

Actually, they are missing quite a few from what I can tell, even a few that had fatalities. Snowy Torrents doesn't have everything either. Some things just slipped through the cracks I guess.

But still, using accidents in the area to give them an excuse to expand is dumb. AB needs to expand parking, not terrain.

Where would they put the cars?

Better to shuttle from somewhere.

**Name Redacted** · 11-25-2016, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by GPP33

Probably a lot more than east wall since it's not as exposed to the wind and I don't believe has as many massive boulders to bury. That traverse they have planned to go right across the middle of em should be pretty fkn sweet though. Snow boarder post holes, 200vf of beater traverse lines. Sweet!

They expect that traverse to appear "organically" from skiers and riders trying to traverse back to pollywog. Skiers have done it (super-polliwog)for years and some gotten busted for it. It's pretty dumb because you only ski the upper third of the runs then traverse forever with a bunch of sidestepping.

I hope they open the terrain that no one skis right now under the alleys. There are some pretty fun cliffs in there. If there is a silver lining to this whole thing, that is it.

**summit** · 11-25-2016, 08:44 AM

I keep on showing up to post but shredgnar keeps saying everything I had to say.

**Name Redacted** · 11-25-2016, 08:52 AM

I would predict a "organic" bootpack to that base of the Beavers lift from the bottom of a traverse skiers left out of the gullies. I think you could even traverse all the way to the top of some of the gullies if you hauled ass along king cornice.

The worst part of this expansion IMHO is that they aren't putting the lift all the way to the bottom of the valley. I asked multiple times why and it was a mix of BS excuses, basically comes down to not wanting to fuck with the wetland mitigation. The said lack of snow down low, too steep/difficult terrain, as their reasons. I guess it'll slow people down from tracking out the Gullies though.

**Name Redacted** · 11-25-2016, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

I keep on showing up to post but shredgnar keeps saying everything I had to say.

You are welcome.

**GPP33** · 11-25-2016, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

They expect that traverse to appear "organically" from skiers and riders trying to traverse back to pollywog. Skiers have done it (super-polliwog)for years and some gotten busted for it. It's pretty dumb because you only ski the upper third of the runs then traverse forever with a bunch of sidestepping.

I hope they open the terrain that no one skis right now under the alleys. There are some pretty fun cliffs in there. If there is a silver lining to this whole thing, that is it.

I noticed that last night when we were checking out the map, looks like the rope at the bottome of Pali will be moved down hill.

**Trace Hardslab** · 11-26-2016, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

I hope they open the terrain that no one skis right now under the alleys. There are some pretty fun cliffs in there.

We used to call that "Janitors Only" or "Lower Atomic", named after the longstanding tradition of the "Atomic Janitors" who lived in the A-Frame and skied every day. I'm guessing that tradition is long gone as the janitors are probably all Mexis these days?

My copies of the Snowy Torrents are in storage because I live in a van down by the river, so Summit might wanna fact check me when he gets back stateside, but the "6 fatalities in Gullies/Beavers" goes roughly as follows:

2 fatalities in the 2nd Steep Gully in the 80s and another in the 2nd in '96. A fatality in the 4th Steep Gully in 2000 (?) and the one several years ago in the 1st. The other was in the Snakepit in '93.

**fastfred** · 11-26-2016, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab

2 fatalities in the 2nd Steep Gully in the 80s and another in the 2nd in '96. A fatality in the 4th Steep Gully in 2000 (?) and the one several years ago in the 1st. The other was in the Snakepit in '93.

that brings back some memories place I worked had lots of chicken scratch all over the walls, powder days were listed out by winners and amounts, it was a friend of someones so they wrote "one dead beavers" for 96

**Name Redacted** · 11-27-2016, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab

We used to call that "Janitors Only" or "Lower Atomic", named after the longstanding tradition of the "Atomic Janitors" who lived in the A-Frame and skied every day. I'm guessing that tradition is long gone as the janitors are probably all Mexis these days?

My copies of the Snowy Torrents are in storage because I live in a van down by the river, so Summit might wanna fact check me when he gets back stateside, but the "6 fatalities in Gullies/Beavers" goes roughly as follows:

2 fatalities in the 2nd Steep Gully in the 80s and another in the 2nd in '96. A fatality in the 4th Steep Gully in 2000 (?) and the one several years ago in the 1st. The other was in the Snakepit in '93.

Plus another in 2010 in in #1 https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/a...=118&accfm=inv

Another just a little further down the ridge in '03 or '04 and a full burial the same year that survived in #4. Can't find either on CAIC, CAIC and Snowy Torrents are a good resource, but neither includes every accident or even every death.

For the record, I believe that there have been more people involved in inbounds avalanches at AB than out of bounds in the Gullies or Beavers. If you count the 15 involved in a slide in Zuma and the guy in the first alley. To think that AB will protect us from slides by bringing this area inbounds is a little nieve. More traffic=more problems, and they know that, so they'll be extra cautious in opening.

I've even been told by some that there might be a season (this season or next) where the area (Gullies and Beavers)will be closed to the public while work is being done on avy mitigation and building the lift.

**The SnowShow** · 11-27-2016, 08:57 AM

It would be great if they started a volunteer early season bootpacking program like at Highlands or Copper.

**Trace Hardslab** · 11-27-2016, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

Plus another in 2010 in in #1 https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/a...=118&accfm=inv

Yeah, that's the same one I was talking about from "several years ago".

In addition to the inbounds disasters shredgnar mentions above, I think there's been a couple other inbounds fatal slides at the Basin. A patroller was killed in a slide in the lower lenawee parks area in the 60s. Don't know if it's on the trail map but the slope bears his name, Gentry (sp?). Another patroller(?) was killed on the Pali in the 70s.

The avalanche history of the region is long and bloody. Every slope has a story. Some have horror stories.

**Name Redacted** · 11-27-2016, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab

Yeah, that's the same one I was talking about from "several years ago".

In addition to the inbounds disasters shredgnar mentions above, I think there's been a couple other inbounds fatal slides at the Basin. A patroller was killed in a slide in the lower lenawee parks area in the 60s. Don't know if it's on the trail map but the slope bears his name, Gentry (sp?). Another patroller(?) was killed on the Pali in the 70s.

The avalanche history of the region is long and bloody. Every slope has a story. Some have horror stories.

I forget how the Turbo story goes, but was that inbounds?

**Trace Hardslab** · 11-27-2016, 07:22 PM

Turbo was killed on Kelso Mtn in October of '84.

His partner from that fateful day still lives in Montezuma and skis the Basin & surrounding backcountry all the time.

**smitchell333** · 11-27-2016, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab

Turbo was killed on Kelso Mtn in October of '84.

His partner from that fateful day still lives in Montezuma and skis the Basin & surrounding backcountry all the time.

Which aspect on Kelso was that on?

**Trace Hardslab** · 11-27-2016, 08:24 PM

The north side, the big slope visible from the highway.

**Name Redacted** · 11-27-2016, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab

Turbo was killed on Kelso Mtn in October of '84.

His partner from that fateful day still lives in Montezuma and skis the Basin & surrounding backcountry all the time.

Couldn't remember, jumped off the rock, but never stopped to read the plaque. RIP

**smitchell333** · 11-27-2016, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Trace Hardslab

The north side, the big slope visible from the highway.

Good to know. Thanks

It's nice to have the CAIC Online DB but incidents prior to 96 or so aren't in there. I was listing off a few late 80s/ early 90s fatalities to a friend last year and he was surprised that he'd never heard of them. Same with this Kelso incident for me, just before my time.

**Hacksaw** · 11-28-2016, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by smitchell333

It's nice to have the CAIC Online DB but incidents prior to 96 or so aren't in there. .

There is also the Avalanche.org DB. That goes back to 98.

AAA/CAIC are working on getting the older accidents on to the avy.org site. Its a slow process that requires $$$.

Meanwhile, I know I have been on 2 recoveries in the AB steep gullies area over the years. I think they were in the late 90's.