The Vinyl Thread

[MOHSHSIHd]

Sheik Yerbouti = $$$$


Can anyone who reads this thread keep their eyes peeled for this at their local stores? If its less than $20 or so pick it up and I can paypal you. I have it on digital, but its too good not to have on vinyl, and the cover just cracks me up.

[upallnight]

Sheik Yerbouti = $$$$


Can anyone who reads this thread keep their eyes peeled for this at their local stores? If its less than $20 or so pick it up and I can paypal you. I have it on digital, but its too good not to have on vinyl, and the cover just cracks me up.

ebay is your friend. $3.99 for a NM copy.

[MOHSHSIHd]

thanks, just ordered

[Rontele]

ebay is your friend.

eBay is great for vinyl, though it has certainly leveled the playing field for the average joes to find rare groove tracks. I think some of the old time crate diggers scorn the ease of eBay because it circumvents having to dig through old, dusty crates in search of a hidden gem.

Josh Davis (DJ Shadow) arguably one of the most prolific record collectors in the world had a very interesting article about this a few years ago.

[upallnight]

eBay is great for vinyl, though it has certainly leveled the playing field for the average joes to find rare groove tracks. I think some of the old time crate diggers scorn the ease of eBay because it circumvents having to dig through old, dusty crates in search of a hidden gem.

Josh Davis (DJ Shadow) arguably one of the most prolific record collectors in the world had a very interesting article about this a few years ago.

i think i recall that article. most "old crate diggers" (myself included) wind up using ebay to their advantage. the thing is, there are sooo many ways to get screwed on ebay re: vinyl. having deep pockets helps, but there is no way other than time to learn what you need to look for as far as labels, pressings, etc.

also, just as ebay increased the ability of "the average joe" to find relatively rare albums, it's also meant that the album you might NEVER see in your lifetime now comes up as ebay is a national market.

then again, i may be biased as i never thought dj shadow's "favorite shop" was all that.

[Squatch]

if anyone can find that album i'd love to read it.

[Greydon Clark]

Yesterday’s vinyl purchases:
The Original Motion Picture Soundtrack to Beverly Hills Cop
Willy Nelson, City of New Orleans
Neil Diamond, Early Hits
David Lee Roth, Eat ’em and Smile
Aretha Frankly, Greatest Hits
The Supremes, Greatest Hits (double LP)

Total cost, $15.12. I almost picked-up a 12” 45 of Too Drunk to Fuck by the Dead Kennedys, but it would have doubled the price of the outing, so I passed.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

i still have a lot of vinyl from my hardcore/punk days (Cap'N Jazz's only full-length on LP yo! ), but last year, while visiting home and helping to clean out my grandparents attic, we stumbled across a stash of some choice albums. Brought a bunch back with me including...

The first 3 Zepps
A bunch of Kiss
Mitch Ryder & the Detroit Wheels (this one is for you Greydon)
Chuck Berry
LOTS of Stones
Bill Cosby - To My Brother, Whom I slept with (hilarious)
Doobie Brothers
LOTS of Hendrix
Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass (oh yeah!)
a bunch of Beatles
4 or 5 Johnny Cash's....

[tuffy109]

here's a photo of my current vinyl rig:

here's mine



the kid's using some 70's light and sound machine record player with christmas lights that pulse to beats. she's big on listening to slowdive and codeine when it's time to go night night.

[Greydon Clark]

Even easier than scouring eBay, just buy everything Four Men with Beards re-releases: http://www.forcedexposure.com/labels...th.beards.html. From Aretha to Wire, they have you covered.

[skier666]

Usually you will pay more on Ebay...the best deals come from crate digging at places like Amoeba in SF. Used prices on Ebay are inflated. Also check gemm.com, its an online database of record stores from around the world.

My god, this is one of the best pics I've seen on TGR:

Latest purchases:

High Contrast - Tough Guys Don't Dance LP
Spirit - Salamander/Holding Back 12"
Outrage - Creeper/The End is our Beginning 12"
Dom & Klute - Maximus / Sanity
Lynx Feat. Kemo - Global Enemies / Break The Mould
Break - Mr. Crystal / Come & Get It

[dookeyXXX]

i have an entire storage unit filled with vinyl. mostly classic new school rap from the late '80s/early '90s (the fallout of being a DJ on a college radio station and enjoying the fruits of such labor).

[tuffy109]

Even easier than scouring eBay, just buy everything Four Men with Beards re-releases: http://www.forcedexposure.com/labels...th.beards.html. From Aretha to Wire, they have you covered.

took me so long to find wire's 154.

[Rontele]

Sadly, my 2 1200s and all of my vinyl are packed away in my storage unit.

[slim]

Total cost, $15.12. I almost picked-up a 12” 45 of Too Drunk to Fuck by the Dead Kennedys, but it would have doubled the price of the outing, so I passed.

You always were a fucking quiter.

[pappag]

Interesting article --> http://www.wired.com/entertainment/m...eningpost_1029


Vinyl May Be Final Nail in CD's Coffin
By Eliot Van Buskirk Email 10.29.07 | 12:00 AM

As counterintuitive as it may seem in this age of iPods and digital downloads, vinyl -- the favorite physical format of indie music collectors and audiophiles -- is poised to re-enter the mainstream, or at least become a major tributary.

Talk to almost anyone in the music business' vital indie and DJ scenes and you'll encounter a uniformly optimistic picture of the vinyl market.

"I'm hearing from labels and distributors that vinyl is way up," said Ian Connelly, client relations manager of independent distributor alliance IODA, in an e-mail interview. "And not just the boutique, limited-edition colored vinyl that Jesu/Isis-style fans are hot for right now."

Pressing plants are ramping up production, but where is the demand coming from? Why do so many people still love vinyl, even though its bulky, analog nature is anathema to everything music is supposed to be these days? Records, the vinyl evangelists will tell you, provide more of a connection between fans and artists. And many of today's music fans buy 180-gram vinyl LPs for home listening and MP3s for their portable devices.

"For many of us, and certainly for many of our artists, the vinyl is the true version of the release," said Matador's Patrick Amory. "The size and presence of the artwork, the division into sides, the better sound quality, above all the involvement and work the listener has to put in, all make it the format of choice for people who really care about music."

Because these music fans also listen using portable players and computers, Matador and other labels include coupons in record packaging that can be used to download MP3 versions of the songs. Amory called the coupon program "hugely popular."

Portability is no longer any reason to stick with CDs, and neither is audio quality. Although vinyl purists are ripe for parody, they're right about one thing: Records can sound better than CDs. Although CDs have a wider dynamic range, mastering houses are often encouraged to compress the audio on CDs to make it as loud as possible: It's the so-called loudness war. Since the audio on vinyl can't be compressed to such extremes, records generally offer a more nuanced sound.

Another reason for vinyl's sonic superiority is that no matter how high a sampling rate is, it can never contain all of the data present in an analog groove, Nyquist's theorem to the contrary. "The digital world will never get there," said Chris Ashworth, owner of United Record Pressing, the country's largest record pressing plant.

Golden-eared audiophiles have long testified to vinyl's warmer, richer sound. And now demand for vinyl is on the rise. Pressing plants that were already at capacity are staying there, while others are cranking out more records than they did last year in order to keep pace with demand.

Don MacInnis, owner of Record Technology in Camarillo, California, predicts production will be up 25 percent over last year by the end of 2007. And he's not talking about small runs of dance music for DJs, but the whole gamut of music: "new albums, reissues, majors and indies ... jazz, blues, classical, pop and a lot of (classic) rock."

Turntables are hot again as well. Insound, an online music retailer that recently began selling USB turntables alongside vinyl, can't keep them in stock, according to the company's director, Patrick McNamara. And on Oct. 17, Amazon.com launched a vinyl-only section stocked with a growing collection of titles and several models of record players.

Big labels still aren't buying the vinyl comeback, but it wouldn't be the first time the industry failed to identify a new trend in the music biz. "Our numbers, at least, don't really point to a resurgence," said Jonathan Lamy, the Recording Industry Association of America's director of communications. Likewise, Nielsen SoundScan, which registered a slight increase in vinyl sales last year, nonetheless showed a 43 percent decrease between 2000 and 2006.

But when it comes to vinyl, these organizations don't really know what they're talking about. The RIAA's numbers are misleading because its member labels are only now beginning to react to the growing demand for vinyl. As for SoundScan, its numbers don't include many of the small indie and dance shops where records are sold. More importantly, neither organization tracks used records sold at stores or on eBay -- arguably the central clearinghouse for vinyl worldwide.

Vinyl's popularity has been underreported before.

"The Consumer Electronics Association said that only 100,000 turntables were sold in 2004. Numark alone sold more than that to pro DJs that year," said Chris Roman, product manager for Numark.

And the vinyl-MP3 tag team might just hasten the long-predicted death of the CD. San Francisco indie band The Society of Rockets, for example, plans to release its next album strictly on vinyl and as MP3 files. "Having just gone through the process of mastering our new album for digital and for vinyl, I can say it is completely amazing how different they really sound," said lead singer and guitarist Joshua Babcock in an e-mail interview. "The way the vinyl is so much better and warmer and more interesting to listen to is a wonder."

- - -

Eliot Van Buskirk has covered digital music since 1998, after seeing the world's first MP3 player sitting on a colleague's desk. He plays bass and rides a bicycle.

[skier666]

CD dying? No way. That's a pretty harsh move to deny a customer the .wav version of a track/album. Its like selling the VHS version of a song and denying it available on dvd. On crappy stereo systems, most people would not be able to tell the difference. However, the problem does become apparent when you play that same file on a good system. This is because lower quality tune gets amplified and you can now hear all the problems with it.

Vinyl? Why would any person buy vinyl?





...and that's only the dnb collection

I totally agree with the article. Buying vinyl gives you a product that you can touch and feel. With good monitors or speakers, a well produced record is heavenly. I love coming home and putting on a couple tunes, it makes you appreciate the music. MP3's have no soul. You store them on your hardrive, organize them, and delete them just as easily.

[upallnight]

while i'm a huge vinyl fan, i don't believe that mp3s are inherently bad. in fact, if they're done right (from a good source, good encoder, proper bitrate & sampling frequency), they can sound very good...even on a highly resolving system.

most of the time, though, mp3s (even the ones offered by the labels patrick amory represents) are an afterthought and not created with quality in mind.

the problem (from an audio perspective) with CDs was that they had too low a bitrate & sampling frequency. 16/44.1 was never enough. i've created 24bit/88kHz versions of some of my vinyl, and the results are really amazing. (i choke when i'm defending digital here...)

actually, i've created some 16/44.1 versions, and the care that one can put into it can produce a very good product...often better than mass-produced commercial CDs.

redbook can actually be a good medium, but the implementation is often lacking. witness: CDs mastered in the 80s before engineers really knew what they were doing + were rushing to put out the back catalog; the current loudness wars and impact on dynamic range (or lack thereof); etc.

ANYway... vinyl is a tangible product that we can connect with. it has a history. old records have passed through many hands and have stories associated with them. it's also extremely finicky and oftentimes a PITA. you had to get up every 20 minutes to changes sides. but it is that very PITA that requires one to be more committed to the experience, to invest more in it, to be more a part with it vs., say, firing up iTunes and piping a random mix from 100GB of music. there's no interaction, and no soul.

vinyl has qualities to it's basic sound that tend to sound better even on modest systems...and playback on quality gear is unreal. (skier666, your speaker placement kills me.) the errors inherent in vinyl playback are less obtrusive to listening... while the errors of (poor) digital are much more offensive to a listener.

the biggest problem with digital music is that it encourages, i think, more disposable music. music is, perhaps, more present in peoples' lives (again, it's easy to have a 24hr mix from iTunes without any interaction), but it's an afterthought...or just background noise. it's almost impossible for someone to spin actual records and have them become background noise.

while i dig the article, the reality is that "growth" in vinyl sales is growth on an incredibly miniscule base. digital is the way to go. it's a shame that the formats we've been given dumb down the quality. mp3s aren't the problem or the answer. full, lossless files @ 24bit/196kHz would be MUCH better...but most people:
(a) can't tell the difference on crappy equipment;
(b) don't care;
(c) have been fooled into thinking even CDs are perfect, so there's no way to improve;
(d) don't have the storage space, even if they did care.

[/end of rant from passionate music lover / vinyl aficionado / non-digital-crucifier]

[pappag]

Ya know ... nobody likes a showoff. I go for the "keepin' it real" factor with my vinyl stacked up on my playing table and organized for most played to least.


BTW - is that a PMC-05 I spot?

CD dying? No way. That's a pretty harsh move to deny a customer the .wav version of a track/album. Its like selling the VHS version of a song and denying it available on dvd. On crappy stereo systems, most people would not be able to tell the difference. However, the problem does become apparent when you play that same file on a good system. This is because lower quality tune gets amplified and you can now hear all the problems with it.

Vinyl? Why would any person buy vinyl?





...and that's only the dnb collection

I totally agree with the article. Buying vinyl gives you a product that you can touch and feel. With good monitors or speakers, a well produced record is heavenly. I love coming home and putting on a couple tunes, it makes you appreciate the music. MP3's have no soul. You store them on your hardrive, organize them, and delete them just as easily.

[pechelman]

do records & vinyl really have souls?
is telemark skiing really a lifestyle?

i thought they were a form of media and a turn.

[MOHSHSIHd]

I have a weird question about stylus (whats the plural of that word anyway)


Does a new or old stylus preserve a record longer?


My feeble mind leads me to believe that a new sharp stylus will damage a record more, but on the other hand a dull stylus could widen and flatten the grooves....

does it make that much of a difference?


sorry if this question is retarded

[Greydon Clark]

I don't know nothin' about souls, but the Mad Professor knows sound...

Digital has got no sound. Digital has no character. The whole basis of digital is based on binary notations, naughts and ones, so you're either [in] one state or the other. And that is the reason it doesn't lend itself to dub. Digital itself has no sound. It can clone a sound, but it's got no sound. With analog, each room is different. Each speaker is different. Each character is different. Analog puts an individual stamp on everything."

[runethechamp]

Now I think I have to bring over my 15 year old Rega Planar 3 and some of my records next time I go back home to Norway. Then I can do their motor upgrade to get it working here in the US. That record player is no good for anything but just playing your music, but for that it is fantastic.

[upallnight]

I have a weird question about stylus (whats the plural of that word anyway)

"stylii"

Does a new or old stylus preserve a record longer?

there are many things that preserve records, but here are a couple for you to think about (in rough order):
1) a stylus that is set up accurately. new or old, expensive or cheap matters less than how it's set up. if it's aligned poorly or you are using the wrong VTF, you'll be destroying your records with every play.

2) a properly set up TT. is it level laterally & fore-aft? is it isolated from vibrations? does the arm jump when you dance around or walk by it?

3) stylus shape; certain profiles reduce record wear. a shibata (or line contact) profile usually requires a lower VTF and, also, produces less record wear.

4) record storage. constant temperature? stored vertically, with no room to flop to one side? clean? grungy? moldy?

there's a lot more to it (hence my "finicky" comment earlier...which is actually one endearing thing about vinyl)...but you get the idea.

My feeble mind leads me to believe that a new sharp stylus will damage a record more, but on the other hand a dull stylus could widen and flatten the grooves....

does it make that much of a difference?

i know what you're thinking by "sharp", but a stylus is not really sharp. now, a cutting head that is actually used to cut a lacquer (in the making of a record) is sharp, as it is cutting material.

stylii are actually slightly round. they trace a groove buy don't cut....unless there are major setup problems (think: taping a penny on the head of your tonearm, as some folks do to "prevent skipping" -- it's really a misguided attempt to solve a setup issue by addressing the wrong area).

I don't know nothin' about souls, but the Mad Professor knows sound...

here's the key issue: walk into any studio these days. are they using pro tools? the music is so dumbed down from the moment it's recorded, that the soul is lost.

individual notes are corrected/manipulated. partial takes are done and spliced together. the artistry that existed way back where a complete take would be done and kept or tossed in it's entirety did lead to true artistry. that is incredibly rare these days.

how many people are recording to 2 track @ 30ips these days? they're out there, but it's a small number.

records are just copies of performances, too.

the mad professor's point is kind of funny...as he's made his career by recording one performance to another medium. even if they're analog formats, ever transfer involves a loss...it's always that way. (witness recordings made from masters vs back-up or safety or 2nd generation tapes.)

how many times can you copy a performance in analog before it loses its soul? if the stuff he is dubbing was originally a digital creation (likely) and never had a soul to begin with, when he copies it to an analog tape (for later downloading by the kids as an MP3), did he add a soul to it, only to have it later disappear? these are terribly important questions.

[runethechamp]

here's the key issue: walk into any studio these days. are they using pro tools? the music is so dumbed down from the moment it's recorded, that the soul is lost.

individual notes are corrected/manipulated. partial takes are done and spliced together. the artistry that existed way back where a complete take would be done and kept or tossed in it's entirety did lead to true artistry. that is incredibly rare these days.

how many people are recording to 2 track @ 30ips these days? they're out there, but it's a small number.

records are just copies of performances, too.

the mad professor's point is kind of funny...as he's made his career by recording one performance to another medium. even if they're analog formats, ever transfer involves a loss...it's always that way. (witness recordings made from masters vs back-up or safety or 2nd generation tapes.)

how many times can you copy a performance in analog before it loses its soul? if the stuff he is dubbing was originally a digital creation (likely) and never had a soul to begin with, when he copies it to an analog tape (for later downloading by the kids as an MP3), did he add a soul to it, only to have it later disappear? these are terribly important questions.

I'm pretty sure it's very rare to find a recording made today that hasn't been digital at one point, right? I guess the question is what the digital format is for the masters (probably a lot higher quality than normal cds). So there can't be much soul produced these days.