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  1. #1
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    Testing the VIO POV1?

    Has TGR used the new VIO helmet cam? The POV1 unit. If so how has that worked out and is it really worth the $850 price tag? I saw on their site they claim to be the official helmet cam of TGR.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    can you post a link to the website you are referring to? I cant find it on the viosport website.

    That being said I did see a few posts in other forums about it. The recorder uses mpeg4 format to record. This is a compressed format that will degrade when edited and uncompressed, then recompressed and put on TV, etc...

    I highly doubt TGR uses these for their movies as the quality of their footage is top notch, but it would not be the first time I was wrong...
    Last edited by couloirman; 08-29-2007 at 05:05 PM.

  3. #3
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    vio-pov.com
    ROBOTS ARE EATING MY FACE.

  4. #4
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    That's the site, and yeah I was asking here for the same reason. The new unit looks nice, and not having to use a camcorder stuffed into a pelican case would be nice if the quality was there. Personally I've never used a camera that does DiVX compression so I was curious as to how well it worked.

  5. #5
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    Greets-

    Our full review just went live over at Helmet Camera Central. Raw video clips, frame grabs, lots of details. Overall it's a winner, but there are some usability issues and videophiles will have a few things to say.

    Go here for an in-depth, hands-on review...

    chad @ helmetcameracentral.com

  6. #6
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    we have not gotten any in the office yet, but Roner is using one (the footage is awesome), and Advres has one too. i'll let both of them know that they should post in this thread.

    the little bit i've seen and heard, is really positive. there isnt a huge collection of cables and shit. theres one cable from the camera to the recorder, with a mic built-in. then a wireless record button that you can strap on your wrist. the recording unit looks and feels like a rubber-clad iPod, but is taller vertically. from what i've been told, the video is Divx-encoded. it looks really good. our issue with the helmetcams we were using was the camera itself. a 480i single CCD chip. this new one is a CMOS chip and has much better color rendition and less shifting. which makes it much easier to color correct and blow up to HD (the recorded image is still SD).

    we'll be doing a bunch of tests on them once they arrive so we can squeeze as much image out of them as possible. we're really excited, but i'd say that the biggest selling point is its ease of use. a lot of our athletes wont wear the helmetcams because they are just too cumbersome and confusing when you're freaked out, standing on top of a career line with your heart rate pushing 180. because their so much easier to use, these cameras will make their way onto more athletes helmets this year, and thats the best part.

    e
    "There's no excuses. No one has ever paid admission to see an excuse. No one has ever faced a black screen that says, 'Well, if we had these set of circumstances we would have shot this scene, so please forgive us and use your imagination.' I've been to the movies hundreds of times, that's never occurred." - Mark Borchardt, American Movie

  7. #7
    advres Guest
    There is already a thread on this that has a lot of info in it. Read through that. My impressions so far are very favorable. I have yet to really use it in multiple lighting situations and have not had time to really use it yet, but soon enough. Here are some of my posts from that thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by advres View Post
    Holy hell!!!

    UPS just dropped mine off...


    I opened the box and the thing has a freaking carrycase with everything nice packed and organized...


    The recorder is about the size of a tv remote. A little fatter than I thought it would be but no biggie...


    The camera is nice and small. smaller then the old ones.


    the single cable connection will be sick and there is even a friggin wireless remote!!! So stoked to use this thing!!

    Sorry if the pics are blurry but I'm excited!
    Quote Originally Posted by advres View Post
    Here is a little test vid I did. I shot it in 720x480 30fps. I imported it into a 1080i60 timeline in FCP and exported it for Youtube. It looked better than our standard HC footage with the old VIOsports in FCP. Unfortunately, Youtube fucks everything up so you can't really see the quality. So, just think of the TGR helmet cam footy from the past, only just a smidge better. Also, I was holding it in my hand so it was shakey as hell.

    here is the thread... http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94270

    ohhh. and the company changed their name to V.I.O. now. It is no longer viosport.

  8. #8
    advres Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by chad@helmetcameracentral.com View Post
    Overall it's a winner, but there are some usability issues and videophiles will have a few things to say.
    You have said this in multiple threads now... WTF does it mean?

  9. #9
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    anyone know what helmet cam was used for Lost and Found? I have never seen such good looking helmet cam footage in my life.

  10. #10
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    for Lost and Found, we used Viosport's Adventurecam 3 plugged into Sony DV cameras, along with a wider angle lens than the stock one. we're glad that you thought the footage looked so good. i spent a lot of time on each shot upressing to HD and then color grading. since we only use a few shots in the movie, i can spend a couple hours making a few seconds look as good as possible.

    e
    "There's no excuses. No one has ever paid admission to see an excuse. No one has ever faced a black screen that says, 'Well, if we had these set of circumstances we would have shot this scene, so please forgive us and use your imagination.' I've been to the movies hundreds of times, that's never occurred." - Mark Borchardt, American Movie

  11. #11
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    Wow, Scott went outside !?!?!?!?!
    Thank God we have helmet cam proof!!!

  12. #12
    Thanks for the info on the VIO POV. Am glad to hear the quality is good, because the "raw" footage I've seen on other sites looked soft, softer than what I can get out of my adventure cam 3.

    And I agree that the HC footage in Lost and Found looked amazing. I thought for sure it was coming from the POV, with its greater resolution, because you did one hell of a job mixing it in with the HD. So the question is, how did you make it look so good? That shit looked SHARP!

    Also, have you tried to plug an external mic into the POV? (I guess there's a socket hidden by the baseplate or something?) The mic on the Adv. cam 3 sucked. I'm hoping the external mic plug on the POV does the trick.

    Thanks again for the info, and nice work on Lost and Found.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesnazdotcom View Post
    Am glad to hear the quality is good, because the "raw" footage I've seen on other sites looked soft, softer than what I can get out of my adventure cam 3.

    I thought for sure it was coming from the POV, with its greater resolution,

    You're confusing me here. Aren't these two statements saying opposite things? I thought the POV was less res than adv cam 3 b/c of compression, so this last statement puzzled me.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by couloirman View Post
    You're confusing me here. Aren't these two statements saying opposite things? I thought the POV was less res than adv cam 3 b/c of compression, so this last statement puzzled me.
    i dont want to get too technical here, but there are a few different ways you can look at it.

    compression and resolution are 2 different things. 720x480 is the resolution. DV or MPEG-4 are types of compression. heavy compression can make perceived resolution lower. the Adventure Cam 3 has a higher-res CCD chip (811x508), but the DV recording medium can only record a max resolution of 720x480. even if the Acam3 was HD res (1920x1080), it wouldnt matter because it would be recorded to a DV tape. so saying that the Acam3 is better because its higher-res than the POV-1, isnt an accurate statement.

    DV is a pretty nasty compression scheme. MPEG-4 can be either better or much worse than DV depending on the bitrate and the specific codec used. but its been my experience that all things being equal, the imager and the editing system codec are more important than the capture (camera) codec. the POV-1 uses a more efficient CMOS imager, than the Acam3's CCD imager. in the footage i've seen, there much less color shifting from the POV-1 than from the Acam3. there are also fewer what i would call mis-colored pixels. with snow footage, theres a tendency for the camera to assign random red and blues to pixels that should be all white. the POV-1 doesnt have this problem, at least to the extent that DV-based helmetcams typically have had. this most likely is from the improved imager.

    as far as the raw footage appearing "softer", i asked the VIO guys and they told me that the Depth of Field of the new POV-1 imager is shorter than the Acam3. so its possible that the footage you were seeing was soft because it was out of focus. i typically re-set the focus on our Acam3 cameras before every trip, mostly because we're always testing different focal length lenses. i would assume that the POV-1 would be the same way. but since i have not used one personally, only messed with the footage, i cannot say for sure.

    hope that helps.

    e

    also remember that the weakest link in the chain is web video clips, especially UGC sites like YouTube, which uses a horrible Flash 7 encoder. its only fair to compare footage from these cameras at their native resolutions and codecs. be wary of any clips you see on the web.
    Last edited by flynsqurl; 10-30-2007 at 10:50 PM. Reason: added last line.
    "There's no excuses. No one has ever paid admission to see an excuse. No one has ever faced a black screen that says, 'Well, if we had these set of circumstances we would have shot this scene, so please forgive us and use your imagination.' I've been to the movies hundreds of times, that's never occurred." - Mark Borchardt, American Movie

  15. #15
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    Any updates or video with the system in use while skiing.

    Still very curious how it is stacking up to real time use?

    Any comments on functionality or general ease of use?

    How well is the camera doing with the white balance of snow, and does it suffer the same fog in the middle of the lens as some others have in cold conditions?
    Man, It was great...

  16. #16
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    roner just posted a vid: http://www.erikroner.com/

    click on the video called "Alta, December 8th"
    "There's no excuses. No one has ever paid admission to see an excuse. No one has ever faced a black screen that says, 'Well, if we had these set of circumstances we would have shot this scene, so please forgive us and use your imagination.' I've been to the movies hundreds of times, that's never occurred." - Mark Borchardt, American Movie

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynsqurl View Post
    roner just posted a vid: http://www.erikroner.com/

    click on the video called "Alta, December 8th"
    Seems his site is not fully working right now. I'll have to try later I guess.
    Man, It was great...

  18. #18
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    the site is working now, i checked the footage but you cant really tell anything from it since the bad quality comes from the compression

  19. #19
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    From what I could see from the compression, was a higher contrast ability at a longer range with the new cam compared to the videos with the older cam. You can see better details in the snow in flatter light at a longer distance. From viewing hours of my own video, this became apparent right away. The CMOS sensor seems to do a much better job with this. I also noticed a distinct lack of center of lens fog that plagues me constantly with my current set up.
    I was pretty confident that this would be the difference that would come of this new set-up and am glad to have this verified.
    My current questions are about the functionality of the set-up. With the old LANC remotes, you had an LED giving you constant status of the camera. I do not know if the new wireless remote gives you the same data so you know for sure when it is recording or stopped.
    Can the remote clip onto you pack or does it need to go in a pocket and get pulled out when needed.
    The "use-able-ness" is what I am looking for now.
    Man, It was great...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2stix View Post
    The "use-able-ness" is what I am looking for now.
    the "use-able-ness" is the best part about this camera. we couldnt get Sage to even wear a helmetcam until we got the LANC remotes. and this setup is so much better. today was my first full day on the mountain with the camera and here are answers to some of your questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by 2stix View Post
    From what I could see from the compression, was a higher contrast ability at a longer range with the new cam compared to the videos with the older cam. You can see better details in the snow in flatter light at a longer distance. From viewing hours of my own video, this became apparent right away. The CMOS sensor seems to do a much better job with this.
    i've also noticed much less color shifting than the old cameras, which was really difficult for me to track in the color correction of the movies. its like it was constantly changing its internal white balance. this new imager is much better and more subtle. it has better latitude for sure, but it definitely needs an ND filter (which Roner wouldnt have needed on his footage). today was blue and bright and most of my footage was blown out. the ND filters from the AC3 setups work great. i'm putting in a 30% ND for tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2stix View Post
    I also noticed a distinct lack of center of lens fog that plagues me constantly with my current set up.
    the seals are pretty nice on the new camera. it keeps moisture out really well.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2stix View Post
    With the old LANC remotes, you had an LED giving you constant status of the camera. I do not know if the new wireless remote gives you the same data so you know for sure when it is recording or stopped.
    the remote does not give you feedback like the LANC. i asked VIO about this and they said that the prototype had this function, but it chewed through batteries way too quickly. theres 2 buttons - Stop and Record/Tag. its not just one button like the LANC cable. the recorder beeps when you hit either button, but its too quiet to hear. i've found that before i start recording, i just hit the REC button a few times to make sure it records. it will "tag" the clip (which just tells you when you're done which clips you tagged as good), but at least you know that its recording. same thing with STOP. i just hit the STOP button a few times to ensure its stopped.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2stix View Post
    Can the remote clip onto you pack or does it need to go in a pocket and get pulled out when needed.
    the remote looks like a watch with no band - it has slots on either side for a strap. it comes with a velcro strap to go around your arm, but its too short to fit over a jacket. so today i just velcroed it around my wrist under my jacket and just pushed buttons through my coat. worked fine, but a real strap would be a good investment. you could clip it on your coat or pull it out of your pocket too, but i found putting it on my wrist under my coat really convenient. also, if i took a spill, the remote wouldnt fly off and get lost in the snow if it was under my jacket. it seems pretty well sealed, so snow probably wouldnt hurt it. dont know for sure though.

    the cable has a mic about halfway down the length, which when i rigged it up to my helmet put it at my collar under my chin, so it picked up voices really well.

    i would post up some footage, but i had the camera pointed too low so all you can see is my boots. i put an ND filter on the camera and i'm going to try again tomorrow.

    btw, Roner had a wide angle lens. i asked VIO about that and they are working on a new wide lens for this camera right now. whether thats the one Roner had, i dont know - he hasnt emailed me back yet. but i'm going to put an AC3 wide angle lens on mine and try again tomorrow.

    hope that helps.

    e
    "There's no excuses. No one has ever paid admission to see an excuse. No one has ever faced a black screen that says, 'Well, if we had these set of circumstances we would have shot this scene, so please forgive us and use your imagination.' I've been to the movies hundreds of times, that's never occurred." - Mark Borchardt, American Movie

  21. #21
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    This is a long download and not ski porn, but the in car laps are shot with POV1 It has some video tearing when he drives under the bridges, but he's doing like 170mph from sunny to dark for that split second so it's understandable. This was also shot 4:3 and blown up then cropped so it's not even as good quality as it could be.

  22. #22
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    so bottom line=DVD/TV worthy footage not just web? Nice... If its good enough for TGR, its good enough for me. Thanks for making me spend another $800 you fuckers

  23. #23
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    Hey flynsqurl
    Thanks a bunch you have been a wealth of info. It was also good to hear that you can use some of the accessories from the AC3, like the wide angle and the filter. I look forward to seeing your video with the lens and filter.
    Man, It was great...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2stix View Post
    Hey flynsqurl
    Thanks a bunch you have been a wealth of info. It was also good to hear that you can use some of the accessories from the AC3, like the wide angle and the filter. I look forward to seeing your video with the lens and filter.
    i'm going to have to amend that. the AC3 filters work fine on the POV-1, but theres issues with the lenses. the POV-1 lens is physically longer than the AC3 lenses, and the screw on cap is longer too. the AC3 lenses fit, but with the POV-1 cap you get tunnel vision because the lens is too far back in the housing. the caps from the AC3 (which are shorter), are just a mm or so too small to screw onto the front of the POV-1.

    VIO says they are working on a new wide angle lens for the POV-1 right now. i'm guessing thats what Roner was using. they're going to send me one soon so i'll let you guys know. i should also mention that the POV-1 lens is glued in and you have to break the glue to take the lens off. so when i put the lens back on, i used a tension spring and electrical tape. i'll probably later replace the tape with glue from a hot glue gun, which will be easier to scrape off than the original glue and should hold better in the cold than the tape. the POV-1 doesnt have the allen screws to lock in the lens because it wasnt designed for consumer upgrading like the AC3. so beware - the above actions will void your warranty. but since i void warranties like advres drinks, i'm not worried.

    VIO says that the POV-1 lens has a Infrared cut filter - evident when i removed the lens and it had a red coating. they say this: "you will lose the correct color mapping because the AC3 lenses do not have an IR cut filter in them - Better low light bad color - You might be able to correct this in post." makes me wonder if this is how they corrected the constant color shifting seen in the previous camera. maybe its a combination of the new CMOS imager and the new lens. i should also note that as i was setting the focus on the AC3 wide angle lenses and the POV-1 stock lens, the stock lens was definitely sharper and easier to focus.

    i'm going out again today with the stock POV-1 lens and a 30% (70% cut) ND filter. i'll update later.

    e
    "There's no excuses. No one has ever paid admission to see an excuse. No one has ever faced a black screen that says, 'Well, if we had these set of circumstances we would have shot this scene, so please forgive us and use your imagination.' I've been to the movies hundreds of times, that's never occurred." - Mark Borchardt, American Movie

  25. #25
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    ^^^^^
    Again, thanks for the info.
    I personally will probably wait until Vio has a wide angle lens option for the V.1.
    I don't think I would trust myself with breaking the seal and messing with the focus and stuff.
    I look forward to your updates and really appreciate your willingness to share your wisdom.
    Man, It was great...

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