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  1. #2726
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    You guys with your tech terminology. almost as bad as C++11 smart pointer gobbledeegook.

    It's an 8' overhang to the edge of the fascia, so I thought that construct would be enough. We only very occasionally get snowloads here, but I figure that these 2x6 purlins would be enough at 48" spacing across 3 of the 2x8 rafters. The edge is a load bearing wall. Where the purlins meet the fascia support, there's metal angle brackets for extra support, end nailed as well.

    Plus, I didn't know how to do it otherwise.

    Any pointers are welcome, I still have to do the northside overhang.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  2. #2727
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    That's a joist, not a rafter and even if it was a rafter you would still have them on edge for strength. Unless that is hitting a bearing wall on either end, which is highly unlikely and still would not be code. Ideally I'd head off the last joist and then let the lookout (on edge) sit on the exterior wall and/or joist hanger every one.

    I realize this is just a shack, so not critical. Just add more nails and it's all good.
    Looks like shed roof rafters to me?

  3. #2728
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    Looks like shed roof rafters to me?
    Yes. The rafters are 2x8s spanning 12 feet on 16" centers across 10 feet wide.

    I thought about the strength of the purlins would be better on edge, but I didn't want to cut into the rafters that much.

    I can do hangers on the other edge if that's the schmahrter way to go.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  4. #2729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Yes. The rafters are 2x8s spanning 12 feet on 16" centers across 10 feet wide.

    I thought about the strength of the purlins would be better on edge, but I didn't want to cut into the rafters that much.

    I can do hangers on the other edge if that's the schmahrter way to go.
    You should start referring to those rafters as 2x6s with the amount of meat you cut out of them as it is….


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  5. #2730
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    Helpful as always.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  6. #2731
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Rob Thallon, Graphic Guide to Frame Construction
    Amazon or maybe your local library?

  7. #2732
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    thanks ::: ::: !

    I think I'm doing (A) where what's referred to in the doc as "sheathing" I've misnamed as purlins.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  8. #2733
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    This book -
    https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/roof-f...7&idiq=5127246

    After acquiring this book years ago I started carrying a scientific calculator in my tool bag to figure out all the trig problems building complex roofs. It's been way more years now since I've carried a tool bag, so I've forgotten pretty much everything.

    I always thought I typically over built stuff until I moved to Truckee and had to build to heaviest snow load and seismic codes.

    And that guy Rob is out of his tits about using roof sheathing to support a barge. Then he says use the ridge and facia for support. Most ridges are non bearing and facia is decorative! Maybe that shit works in FL or somewhere with zero snow load. I would never in a million years build a roof like that even in FL...jeezus

  9. #2734
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    I can do the trig ok, but it's the framing conventions that trip me up, both the vernacular and the techniques. As for tool bags, they're kind of obvious here.

    This overhang has been the most challenging thing.

    Yeah, it's just a shack and I'm a retired programmer/professor but I'd still like to do it well. I've over built the 10x12 2 story shack with 2x6 framing and headers all around on the first floor or any wall with windows on the second, blocking the shit out of everything. So far, this overhang/barge is the weakest part. I'm thinking I'll put in supports with hangers aligned on the wall studs for some extra support. Thanks for the helpful comments.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  10. #2735
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    This detail is normal standard of practice in the PNWet for that condition. The 2x4 outrigger laid flat is typically ok around here for overhangs up to about 2'. The preference is not to notch the rafter that supports the backspan of the outrigger. With your overhang only being 8", I think putting the outrigger at 4' on center is probably fine provided that you get a barge rafter (aka fascia) nailed on the end. On the other side of the building, put your first rafter after the wall 16" away from the wall and then don't notch it. That will make your outrigger have an 8" overhang and a 16" backspan. It also means that you'll only have to notch the rafter that sits on the exterior wall, which will reduce labor.

    Feel free to give me a shout if you want a quick structural engineering review of the roof framing conditions. I did a quick calc on your 2x8 roof rafters at 16" on center. With a span of 12' they're fine. Technically they aren't ok when you notch 1.5" out of them to accommodate the outriggers but I don't think I'd be too worried about it considering that you're not going to be hosting wild raging parties in the place when we have our 100 year snow storm.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Buke; 08-10-2022 at 06:35 PM.

  11. #2736
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    This book -
    https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/roof-f...7&idiq=5127246

    After acquiring this book years ago I started carrying a scientific calculator in my tool bag to figure out all the trig problems building complex roofs. It's been way more years now since I've carried a tool bag, so I've forgotten pretty much everything.

    I always thought I typically over built stuff until I moved to Truckee and had to build to heaviest snow load and seismic codes.

    And that guy Rob is out of his tits about using roof sheathing to support a barge. Then he says use the ridge and facia for support. Most ridges are non bearing and facia is decorative! Maybe that shit works in FL or somewhere with zero snow load. I would never in a million years build a roof like that even in FL...jeezus
    it's framing for an eave, not a cantilever platform
    everything in there is traditional framing - none of it is cutting edge
    thallon is pretty well respected prof (UoO) for the various books he's put out on construction, despite them being somewhat dated at this point

  12. #2737
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    awesome.
    so the trick here, only notch the rafter sitting on the exterior wall and run the "outrigger" (which I had called purlin) into the next rafter and nail it in there. Laid flat is OK?

    On the one already done, I notched 3 of the rafters, the one on the load bearing wall and then the next 2 interior rafters.

    Use an upside down hanger for security on that interior rafter to secure the outrigger?

    That's a lot easier.

    It's a 3/12 (or 1/4) shed roof, planning on metal roof, hopefully the big snows will slide off.

    Really appreciate the constructive tips, people.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  13. #2738
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    awesome.
    so the trick here, only notch the rafter sitting on the exterior wall and run the "outrigger" (which I had called purlin) into the next rafter and nail it in there. Laid flat is OK?

    On the one already done, I notched 3 of the rafters, the one on the load bearing wall and then the next 2 interior rafters.

    Use an upside down hanger for security on that interior rafter to secure the outrigger?

    That's a lot easier.

    It's a 3/12 (or 1/4) shed roof, planning on metal roof, hopefully the big snows will slide off.

    Really appreciate the constructive tips, people.
    it sounds like you are understanding the physics now: that first rafter back from the outside rake wall is restraining the cantilever; the exterior wall is the fulcrum.
    sim to diagram 145A or Buke's sketch abv
    laid flat is ok

    3/12 is considered "low slope" - snow may take a little warming before it slides off (think of your avalanche angles)
    despite that ^^^, metal roofing is exceptionally slippery when wet if you ever go up to clear leaves or snow - big caution if wet
    (not sure if this is your 1st mtl roof to maintain)

  14. #2739
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    Yup, thanks, I get it.
    And yeah, we have a metal roof on the main house and I clean the fucking chimney at least once a year. It scares the shit out of me on a 1/4.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  15. #2740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    awesome.
    so the trick here, only notch the rafter sitting on the exterior wall and run the "outrigger" (which I had called purlin) into the next rafter and nail it in there. Laid flat is OK?

    On the one already done, I notched 3 of the rafters, the one on the load bearing wall and then the next 2 interior rafters.

    Use an upside down hanger for security on that interior rafter to secure the outrigger?

    That's a lot easier.
    .
    Yep, laid flat like you've done is fine because we have really low snow loads here. Also, you don't need an inverted hanger to attach the outrigger to the rafter because the spans that your dealing with here are so small. If the overhang was 4' then we'd be making different recommendations but in your case it's fine.

    One other word of advice, When you lay up your roof sheathing, start at the outside and work to the middle laying the 8' panels perpendicular to the rafters. The plywood will do a lot to stiffen this thing up.

    If you're feeling antsy about the 2 rafters that are notched (not worried about the third one that sits over the wall of course), you could scab a 2x6 to them to effectively double them up. Technically, those two rafters are "overstressed" by about 10% based on the building code requirements. This is predicated on those rafters being Hem-Fir #2. If they're DF-L #2 then they're only overstressed by 3%. Again, probably not enough to worry about but if you want to reinforce them adding a 2x6 will do the trick.

  16. #2741
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    Looks good enough to me. Even in high-ish snowload areas, framers use all kind of non-traditional asembiles for gable end overhangs. If you live in a production house, there is a pretty good chance you don't have anylooking. We call it "city" where they just overhang the sheathing to support the barge/sub-fascia and add back some blocking for soffitt backer.

    But yeah, framing. In my opinion, tight tolerances and clean framing is what keeps things together.

  17. #2742
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    13"×17' Foundation for a 12x16 Tuff Shed coming tomorrow Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #2743
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    A new keyboard tray and jointer mallet from scrap, but life doesn't always go to plan. Originally I wanted the keyboard tray to be a bookmatched piece of walnut, but I learned that I can't resaw the last 2.5" of the 9" board with a pull saw. The blade drift along the grain as it approached the knot and well, shit happens. I need to build a frame saw, or convince the Mrs. I really should have a big ass bandsaw that can resaw a 10" board.

    Big project on the horizon. Doing a new kitchen table + built in bench. Maybe done by Christmas-ish?
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    Wait, how can we trust this guy^^^ He's clearly not DJSapp

  19. #2744
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2skier112 View Post
    13"×17' Foundation for a 12x16 Tuff Shed coming tomorrow
    Just had a 10x20 barn style Tuff Shed installed yesterday. Holy shit it's a monster! Ms Boissal may have gone a bit overboard with the sizing.
    We dropped it straight on dirt which I managed to level properly, my only contribution to the project.
    "Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise

  20. #2745
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    Don't worry, you'll fill it up with all your shit

    I could have gone on the dirt, but on a couple of peak rain days a year water puddles some. Better safe than sorry

  21. #2746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    Just had a 10x20 barn style Tuff Shed installed yesterday. Holy shit it's a monster! Ms Boissal may have gone a bit overboard with the sizing.
    "You know, in retrospect we really should have bought a smaller shed."

    Said no one, ever. I got an 8x16 years ago despite having space for an 8x20 and wouldn't mind having that extra 4 feet. I put down 2" of gravel first and would recommend that even in our dry climate, but you'll probably be fine.

  22. #2747
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2skier112 View Post
    Don't worry, you'll fill it up with all your shit
    I could have gone on the dirt, but on a couple of peak rain days a year water puddles some. Better safe than sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    "You know, in retrospect we really should have bought a smaller shed."
    Said no one, ever. I got an 8x16 years ago despite having space for an 8x20 and wouldn't mind having that extra 4 feet. I put down 2" of gravel first and would recommend that even in our dry climate, but you'll probably be fine.
    I have no doubt it will be full to the gills in no time. We're about to lose the gear room which is getting converted to a baby room, all the toys have to be re-homed and we have shit piled up in every nook and cranny in he house so the extra space will be welcome.
    We also go a loft option in the shed, total surface for that is 175 sq ft which will be nice for larger stuff that doesn't get used much.

    Re: surface prep, I went back and forth about doing gravel but ultimately their foundation system seems robust enough to withstand some humid conditions. I had to cut concrete off the patio to make enough room and graded the whole zone with the tiniest slope so that the shed barely needed to be leveled but water can flow down the surface without pooling. We'll see if that was a bad call in the next 5 or so years. Gravel would have raised the shed even more and it's already as tall as the house since Ms B got the extra tall ++ more rad than anyone model.
    "Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise

  23. #2748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not DJSapp View Post
    A new keyboard tray and jointer mallet from scrap, but life doesn't always go to plan. Originally I wanted the keyboard tray to be a bookmatched piece of walnut, but I learned that I can't resaw the last 2.5" of the 9" board with a pull saw. The blade drift along the grain as it approached the knot and well, shit happens. I need to build a frame saw, or convince the Mrs. I really should have a big ass bandsaw that can resaw a 10" board.

    Big project on the horizon. Doing a new kitchen table + built in bench. Maybe done by Christmas-ish?
    Gorgeous. Now you just have to find something to do with it besides putting a keyboard on it. Maybe turn some legs. I've tried resawing on the bandsaw. Even with the blade tension cranked to the max and a good high fence it's hard to make the thickness even top to bottom. And that's with a 6 in board which is all my saw can handle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    I have no doubt it will be full to the gills in no time. We're about to lose the gear room which is getting converted to a baby room, all the toys have to be re-homed and we have shit piled up in every nook and cranny in he house so the extra space will be welcome.
    We also go a loft option in the shed, total surface for that is 175 sq ft which will be nice for larger stuff that doesn't get used much.
    Congrats on the baby. Good luck teaching them French. It's a hard language. Swapping your gear for a kid--the start of the downward spiral. Watching it happen to my kid. (We're getting ready to meet our first grandchild in 3 days, the airlines willing.)

  24. #2749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not DJSapp View Post
    A new keyboard tray and jointer mallet from scrap, but life doesn't always go to plan. Originally I wanted the keyboard tray to be a bookmatched piece of walnut, but I learned that I can't resaw the last 2.5" of the 9" board with a pull saw. The blade drift along the grain as it approached the knot and well, shit happens. I need to build a frame saw, or convince the Mrs. I really should have a big ass bandsaw that can resaw a 10" board.

    Big project on the horizon. Doing a new kitchen table + built in bench. Maybe done by Christmas-ish?
    For future reference, if there's luthier/guitar builder in your area, they usually have hot rod resaws that they'll sometimes rent time on.

    When I lived in Santa Cruz, Ukulele Dick had the best one in town.

  25. #2750
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    Congratulations Mr. and Mrs. Boissal !!

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