Busted cutting trails in VT

[idiot]

wasn't there a guy towards the end of last ski season looking for info on making his own ski run........conection????????

[Doremite]

I don't know about that but Jay definitely got busted four or five years ago for clearing way too many trees, my question is what they hell were the doing with all the cut trees? 60ft wide 3/4 mile long is alot of trees

Oh, and I think the hassle Jay (as a resort) got was for the ridge line trail cut from Jay to the summit of Big Jay -- not for clearing trees on their inbound terrain to create their current glade system. I know no details on whether anyone affiliated with Jay was responsible or fined for cutting this trail, but the issue was that it was also cut -- illegally -- on state land. I know very little on details, but I believe this was a pretty major issue - and rightfully so - at the time. Unfortunately, this had led to an ever increasing amount of traffic from Jay out in this direction.... climaxing with the resort marketing the access starting a couple of seasons ago. It's a dangerous game to tout your access to Big Jay to sell tickets. Such a marketing strategy is questionable given the dangers affiliated with this particular decent.

[TBone]

Can someone please go snap some pics of this thing? I would do it myself but I'm stuck on this heat island.

And what a shame. Fucking idiots. As has been said many times, there are plenty of very open lines down the face of Big Jay that hold snow very well. Completely unncessary, and ultimately damaging.

[jahpeak]

BIG GAY SUCKS>.... DANGER>>>>>>DANGER! TOO MUCH HIKIN. HURTS MY FEET?

[samthaman]

the only thing i could think to thin is the entrance to big jay, and that certanly wouldn't take a chainsaw to do. i guess this is going to be a lot worse than i expected. maybe it was SNR trying to clear a spot on the EC to high mark...

[bsideindy]

tasty ...




that's some wide open woods by EC standards. why cut such a beautiful face??

[criscam]

question...
is anyone concerned about the possible avy/slough ramifications of a 60' wide swath cut? i've been out there on several occassions and i'm thinking that with several anchors removed from certain (steeper) locations, this could be an issue??
i am of course basing this on my limited (but growing) avy knowledge.

[skiingsamurai]

that was one of my thoughts too. Last season I started a small slide during the valentines day storm in winooski during a BC kicker session. It only budged, but it was enough to raise some ears.
With this huge gash i think its a serious danger. I might have to go hike it before the season starts to see how low the stumps are cut, the last think i need is to hit one and break my ski or leg. Assuming its safe to ski.

Being that Big Jay is one of the EC's closest places to westerly skiing, im really pissed about this. theres trimming a trail, and then there cutting a fire break.


Does anyone know these assholes?

[Doremite]

question...
is anyone concerned about the possible avy/slough ramifications of a 60' wide swath cut? i've been out there on several occassions and i'm thinking that with several anchors removed from certain (steeper) locations, this could be an issue??
i am of course basing this on my limited (but growing) avy knowledge.

Concerned, yes, but also find it very hard to believe the cut a wide open 60' wide section with just two dudes and two chain saws. You know how long it takes to get in there from 242 and how tight/steep most sections are. I'm thinking they thinned an area over toward lookers left of the pitch at the lowest elevation, but just a guess (3/4 mile long????). Whether this "thinning" was agressive enough to remove needed anchors it yet to be determind. I, like many, am dying for pics. If they really went ape shit in there, it could definitley be an issue. Just adding to my prior comments that this could result in more injuries out there...... Not a good place to get hurt.

[Doremite]

Oh, and cc -- maybe its time for me to crack that book afterall.....

[DaveTV]

Dude, creating back-to-back posts is so.. déclassé

[SpinalTap]

I'm going to hike it on Tuesday. I'll have pictures posted Tuesday night, unless someone beats me to it.

IMO, that slope is pretty protected from the wind, so it should still get good cover and good snow, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[SheSkisTrees]

We might get up there this weekend. Trying to juggle some things to make it happen.

[Tuckerman]

Assuming its safe to ski.

It's not, don't go there in the winter.

[jgb@etree]

It's not, don't go there in the winter.

Agreed. Big Jay is extremely dangerous, especially now that these knuckleheads started cutting trees. Big time avy's this winter. Stay away before you get hurt!

The hike out sucks too. Stick to the dip.... better yet - stay in bounds and ski Timbuktu.

[Tuckerman]

Anyone get a look yet?

[Doremite]

Just got word from the field, that there is no visible swath from 242. For those unaware, you get a pretty good look at Big Jay from Rt. 242. Sounds like - as most expected - they trimmed and cleared a stretch roughly 60' wide and 3/4 miles long, but did NOT clear cut. Sounds like they were "prunning" existing lines.

As a disclaimeer, this is from a friend of a friend - both being Jay die hards so assume they'res some credibility in the report. Don't know the source personally. I'm just happy to hear it doesn't look like Haynes.

[jgb@etree]

If we drop this now, and no one speaks of it again, maybe people will forget about it by winter

[Doc Dempsey]

Ask for pictures and ye shall recieve...

Big Jay cut

[bsideindy]

thanks for the pics. Sucks that they made it that wide...
And though I'm against this cutting, I'll have to get a first hand look this winter.

[johngchrist]

That trail deffinitly wasn't just trimmed. Wish I still lived in vermont to help the cause. Any one from the area want to contact the burlington free press And let them know this isn't how backcountry skiers act.

[Doremite]

DD:

Thanks for the footage. ...and to correct my previous post, that scar is definitely visible. Still not the carnage I feared, but carnage nonetheless.

Some of those stumps look peligro. Free heelers beware!

We'll have to track that thing out early to teach those hackers a lesson.

[Dromond]

question...
is anyone concerned about the possible avy/slough ramifications of a 60' wide swath cut? i've been out there on several occassions and i'm thinking that with several anchors removed from certain (steeper) locations, this could be an issue??
i am of course basing this on my limited (but growing) avy knowledge.

I certainly would. After the V-day storm this year I was surprised to not hear of any avy deaths or injuries in the east. I mean Jay got like 5 feet of snow with plenty of wind. Even I managed to accidentally set off a tiny (8 inch deep x 15' long) wind slab inbounds. You couldn't have paid me to ski Big Jay the day after that storm. Although I'm sure at least several people did and got away with it.

[telepow]

I skied the a steep and exposed slackcountry line at Sugarbush that day and it was sketchy. Stuff was breaking off everywhere, sluff was hitting me in the butt the whole time. I also had some sluff beat me down on Mansfield this winter. It's easy to feel invincible against sliding snow on the EC but I'll be the first to admit, its stupid. This Jay line could definitely slide.

[skiingsamurai]

not only slide, but those stumps are far from short. Thats got injury written all over it.