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  1. #1
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    d-SLR jong buying Canon EOS 20D...

    basically in the same boat as mcroon

    -35 mm experience

    -absolute lens jong

    -low budget. ~$800

    -going to shoot a shitton of photos, pretty effing pumped, i talked myself into this by saying a sick (> rebel, <EOS 10D) dSLR is worth the investment. i will be shoting timelapses, ski shots (obviously) and most exciting for me (besides sking) night photography. i really really am excited to shoot at night, and although possible w/ a 35 or older cam, dslr gives the most flexibility w. shooting and is the most forgiving.

    i was thinking of buying the used EOS 20D frame off ebay for ~500-550 (i'll be very patient). but i have NOOO idea what to do lens-wise.

    i have noooooo dough right now, but this is something i've wanted to do forever, but have been too much of a pussy to jump in--times up, i need to do this. was thinking of buying the cam and a basic lens (~200?), and learning, shooting timelapses and night photog until ski season. hopefully by then i'll have some skiills and will be able to get some decent skiing shots (bumming out at alta). before i start shooting skiing, i was hoping of upgrading to a slightly better lens.

    so thats my deal. questions...

    -lens recs for a jong?
    -is ~$500 the best deal i'm going to get on a 20D?
    -does this sound like a good plan?
    Last edited by lax; 07-27-2007 at 09:17 PM.
    http://tetongravity.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=932&dateline=12042516  96

  2. #2
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    Hey Lax, Sounds like a good plan.

    Get the 50mm (80mm on crop body) F/1.8 lens for about $90. It is a very good lens for the price.

    $500 sounds about right for a 20D.

    About shooting at night. Are you going to do very long exposures? Like 10+Minutes? If so, you will get a lot of noise in your pictures. I did with my 20D. Edit: I think that the noise is due to the sensor getting a false signal from internal heat.
    I've got a 50mm 1.8 that was used once. I'll sell it to you for $60 shipped. It really is a good lens, but I got the f/1.4 right after I got it, so it needs to go.
    Last edited by Junker; 07-27-2007 at 10:04 PM.

  3. #3
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    I agree with Junker

    but for $500 i'll be buying a backup 20D... seriously... i'd be suspicious of a body at that price
    Last edited by Summit; 07-27-2007 at 10:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  4. #4
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    Arrow

    No way you will snag a working 20D for $500, even on Ebay.

    With your budget, I would buy a Rebel XT (not to be confused with the "XTi"), which you can get for $500, probably much less. Check KEH.com over ebay.

    Put as much money into good lenses as you can. You will see a considerable difference in quality if you shoot an XT + good/mid-range glass than a 20D with cheap glass.

    case-in-point, this is a shot I took with a Rebel XT (before I sold it), and canon "L" glass: http://tinyurl.com/273ury

    There are a lot of options for lenses, but since you only spent $400-450 on a body, you can now afford to spend $400 on a lens, instead of only ~$150 if you bought a 20D.

    The Canon EF-S 17-85 IS lens has gotten great reviews, and looks to be a very sold general purpose lens. It's a bit out of your budget ($450 used), but if you hunt around I'm sure you can keep body+lens right around $800.

    Another lens to consider is the Canon 50mm f/1.8. Costs about $75 new, 50-60 used, and is an excellent lens. Just read the reviews.


    Conclusion: don't waste your money on a body above a Rebel unless you can afford to compliment it with good glass. It just won't make you happy in the long run.

    Check out: www.KEH.com for quality used equipment.
    Check out: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/ for a good summary/review of all Canon lenses & bodies.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by dipstik; 07-27-2007 at 10:17 PM.

  5. #5
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    thanks alot for the input. the debate on spending $$$ on camera vs. lens is basically what i was looking for. that and lens recs.

    sounds like a rebel with a good lens is in order. thanks. i'll keep bumping this with my input.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
    With your budget, I would buy a Rebel XT (not to be confused with the "XTi"), which you can get for $500, probably much less. Check KEH.com over ebay.
    Is this purely a budget issue? I'm interested in the XTi and just curious if you feel it has some negatives. I also like the 5D as the next step up because it has that nice sensor, but should probably wait for the 30D to get that updated full frame sensor with its higher FPS if I am going to spend the extra money and so I keep going back to the XTi.

    Your not recommending against the XTi right? Just suggesting the XT is cheaper and widely available used so one can throw more money at a lense???

    I don't really have a tight budget, for me its more a matter of not wasting my money on a camera that I am not going to be able to fully utilize due to my photo jongness and mediocre interest and time that I can invest in taking pictures.
    Last edited by uglymoney; 07-28-2007 at 12:33 PM.

  7. #7
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    Lax, do you have a good tripod and head? If not, that is a must-have for doing long-exposure photography. I'd say the Manfrotto 190xb (or one of its siblings) would be minimal as a decent set of legs, and the 486RC2 is a passable head if you're willing to deal with Kentucky windage when the camera/lens combo isn't balanced particularly well over the center of the head. I've got a 3001ProB tripod (the model replaced by the 190xproB) and the 486RC2, and it's a quite passable system except when
    a) I get lazy and decide to leave it at home because the legs alone weigh nearly 5 pounds and
    b) I'm using my macro lens near 1:1 and the weight being on such a long lever arm causes drooping (so I basically have to "aim high" and hope I get the offset right for the composition I want)
    The first issue (weight) is one that can really only be solved by a significant amount of cash (i.e. a good chunk of what your total budget is, on tripod legs alone).

    Oh, and don't forget a cable release for whichever camera you get; I've had good luck with Adidt remotes from ebay and crummy luck with Jiansi. YMMV, but I remain unconvinced the Canon remotes are worth what they cost.

    As far as lenses go, I stick with my advice in the other thread you linked to--the 50/1.8 is a good one to start with, but I'd say that a 70-200 and 17-50 are going to be in the near future if you stick with it. The Tamron 17-50/2.8 is the leader in its class for price vs quality (reasonably sharp and a lot cheaper than the Canon 17-55/2.8 IS), and I prefer the Sigma 70-200/2.8 HSM (again due to price point vs quality--I find it comparable to the quality of the Canon 70-200/2.8 L, and I don't need weather sealing or IS). The Tamron is usually between $300 and $400 used, the Sigma between $600 and $700. I wouldn't buy either one new unless you are working with a tight timeframe. If you can swing the Tamron 17-50 first, it's a great walkaround lens for a crop camera, and you could work with that for a few months and hopefully save enough cash for a 70-200/2.8.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglymoney View Post
    Is this purely a budget issue? I'm interested in the XTi and just curious if you feel it has some negatives. I also like the 5D as the next step up because it has that nice sensor, but should probably wait for the 20D to get that updated full frame sensor with its higher FPS if I am going to spend the extra money and so I keep going back to the XTi.
    The more reliable side of the rumor mill seems to suggest that the 20D/30D slot in the lineup is going to be 1.6-crop for at least several years (see http://www.digitaljournalist.org/iss...tech-tips.html), and the presence of high-end EF-S lenses (particularly the 17-55/2.8 IS) seems to suggest that Canon expects to have a continued market for high-quality lenses on 1.6-crop bodies. If they were planning on the 20D/30D market going to full frame, I wouldn't expect them to have come out with the 17-55/2.8 IS.

    Personally, the deciding factor for me was one of simple ergonomics. If you haven't handled both cameras, you should give it a try. The Rebel didn't fit as well in my hand and felt like a cheap, plastic piece of gear. The 20D fit quite naturally and felt solid. I was willing to pay a few hundred dollars to have the additional ease of manual control and the better-feeling fit in my hand. Of course, the 5D has similar fit, finish, and ergonomics to the 20D and 30D, so then you have to decide whether or not the price gap there is worth the difference, too.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    Personally, the deciding factor for me was one of simple ergonomics. If you haven't handled both cameras, you should give it a try. The Rebel didn't fit as well in my hand and felt like a cheap, plastic piece of gear. The 20D fit quite naturally and felt solid. I was willing to pay a few hundred dollars to have the additional ease of manual control and the better-feeling fit in my hand. Of course, the 5D has similar fit, finish, and ergonomics to the 20D and 30D, so then you have to decide whether or not the price gap there is worth the difference, too.
    Thanks. I'm liking the 30D more as an option now than before after doing some more research.

    Love these threads.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglymoney View Post
    Is this purely a budget issue? I'm interested in the XTi and just curious if you feel it has some negatives. I also like the 5D as the next step up because it has that nice sensor, but should probably wait for the 30D to get that updated full frame sensor with its higher FPS if I am going to spend the extra money and so I keep going back to the XTi.

    Your not recommending against the XTi right? Just suggesting the XT is cheaper and widely available used so one can throw more money at a lense???

    I don't really have a tight budget, for me its more a matter of not wasting my money on a camera that I am not going to be able to fully utilize due to my photo jongness and mediocre interest and time that I can invest in taking pictures.
    Yup, its purely a budget issue. The differences between XT and XTi are not major, just a few more mexapixels, and a bigger LCD screen.

    Also, the 30D and 5D are very different cameras, if you're only going to shoot sparingly, the 30D might be a better choice.

  11. #11
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    I'm in the same boat, looking to get into photography and buying a new SLR.

    what is the main advantage of the 30D over the XTI?

    when is the full frame sensor 30d going to get updated?

  12. #12
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    the main advantages of the 30D over the XTI:

    better build
    better controls
    better viewfinder
    faster burst

    Do not expect a full frame 30D anytime soon... canon has demonstrated commitment to the APS-C sensor size for their budget (x00D) and high end consumer (x0D) models for at least the next several years

    it would be cool if they came out with a 3D
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  13. #13
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    in addition to KEH, also check bhphoto's used dept. they have some good deals in there from time to time. just don't do ebay.

  14. #14
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    thanks summit.

    the other question I have then is: am i going to notice a big difference in the resolution between the rebel xti and 30d, on the rebel is 10.2 megapixels, the 30d is only 8?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eirikainersharp View Post
    thanks summit.

    the other question I have then is: am i going to notice a big difference in the resolution between the rebel xti and 30d, on the rebel is 10.2 megapixels, the 30d is only 8?
    No, not really as 10.2 vs 8 is a minimal difference.

    I'd also keep your eye out for deals on the 20d, as with the 30d out you can now score one for a very reasonable price. IMHO the "upgrades" to the 30d vs the 20d are not worth the extra cash.

  16. #16
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    20D -> 30D was a minimal upgrade 30D should have been the 20nD... Notable differences are:

    spot meter
    bigger burst buffer (especially RAW 11 vs 6)
    bigger higher res LCD
    various other minor tweaks

    spot meter and a bigger RAW buffer is a big deal IMHO. how much $ is that worth? i don't know... if *I* was buying a DSLR tomorrow, I'd buy a 30D not a 20D, *BUT* I wouldn't have to worry about budgeting for lenses at the same time. if i needed lenses, i'd go 20D and put the difference into glass
    Last edited by Summit; 08-19-2007 at 02:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
    Yup, its purely a budget issue. The differences between XT and XTi are not major, just a few more mexapixels, and a bigger LCD screen.
    The interface changes between the XT and XTi were significant.
    Bigger LCD getting rid of the "bar" above the XT lcd.
    Stuff moved into the viewfinder and the UI on the LCD vastly improved.
    The only thing worse than the feeling that you are going to die is the realization that you probably won't.

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