The Cholesterol Thread: HDL v. LDL v. Lipitor - CAGEMATCH

**bigdude2468** · 12-01-2024, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by yeahman

Is it really possible to have clogged artieries and have no symptoms like shortness of breath, high blood pressure, elevated heart beat, etc.?

Absolutely! I was a competitive runner, marathoner, good cholesterol numbers, no family history, ate very well, never smoked etc, resting HR in mid 40's. I had a heart murmur which was caused by mitral valve pro lapse. The thinking at the time, late 90's was to just keep an eye on it. then in early 2000's the thinking changed and if the pro lapse was moderate or severe a surgical repair was suggested. Before doing surgery I had an angiogram and they found two arteries blocked 80% and three at 50%. The LAD was one of the 80% blocked vessels. I never had shortness of breath, blood pressure 110/70 so you certainly can be asymptomatic.

**Dantheman** · 12-01-2024, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by yeahman

Is it really possible to have clogged artieries and have no symptoms like shortness of breath, high blood pressure, elevated heart beat, etc.?

Very much yes. The most common initial overt symptom of heart disease is having a heart attack and dropping dead.

**yeahman** · 12-01-2024, 09:09 AM

Well, I can think of worse ways to go. Lots!

I guess when it comes to taking preventative drugs like statins, the question becomes how long do you actually want or expect to live. Maybe it makes as much sense to stay fit and active and just let the chips fall where they may. That's kind of how I've lived my life in general, without much thought toward the future.

I'm one of those with genetic high cholesterol but no family history of heart disease.

**bigdude2468** · 12-01-2024, 10:02 AM

The other factor which has been getting a lot of press lately is chronic inflammation that can result in plaque build up of the worst kind of cholesterol. Inflammation level can be measured, a C-reactive protein test and others can establish the level of inflammation.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...csk9-inhibitor

**fomofo** · 12-01-2024, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by bigdude2468

The other factor which has been getting a lot of press lately is chronic inflammation that can result in plaque build up of the worst kind of cholesterol. Inflammation level can be measured, a C-reactive protein test and others can establish the level of inflammation.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...csk9-inhibitor

Happened to watch this recently. Including it just as something else to consider. He starts talking about cholesterol and inflammation around 4:15 into the vid. 14:50 what is the real cause of heart disease.

**Eastside** · 12-02-2024, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Better question is what was your calcium score? How high was it to convince you to go on statins right away?

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I don't remember but the Doc said only 20% of men in my group have worse. The doc didn't panic or anything but she took notice. I guess the news was enough for me to stop fucking around and pretending I was smarter than the paid pharma shills or whatever.

10 mgs of rosuvastatin and sometimes my knees are sore but nothing too crazy. Still need a blood panel to see if it is doing anything.

**Danno** · 12-02-2024, 10:14 AM

Interesting thread, I don't recall it even though I posted once a year ago.

My cholesterol was borderline before going to a LCHF diet 6 years ago, since then it has been pretty high (total cholesterol around 300). In 2020 my doc wanted to start me on statins, I did a CAC test and scored 0 so he backed off. Four years later, same arguments and same high cholesterol, so I did another CAC test and scored another 0. :shrug:

**fomofo** · 12-02-2024, 10:48 AM

I rode with a doctor whose father was one of Arnie Schwarzenegger‘s partners back in the seventies, and for them it was all 12 raw eggs and a steak for breakfast. This doctor and I, we were on this big endurance bike race together and he was watching my intake and he was just laughing his head off. I was eating burritos, and tacos, and orders of French fries, just mowing through food. He was like: “Dude, you are doing everything wrong!”

But we ended up going for 48 hours and at the end of it I was in the best shape of anybody that was still standing! He was like, “You did everything wrong, but I watched it work.” And it really made him really think about everything, because he grew up in a time where everything was about what I kind of did, and he just watched it work.

So while you might have ‘nutrition program of the week’, it might not be great for everybody. In the long run you’ve gotta find what works for you, and, and if it doesn’t fit into the nutritionist book, then who cares?

Plake on Staying Fit and Injury Free

**old goat** · 12-02-2024, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by yeahman

Is it really possible to have clogged artieries and have no symptoms like shortness of breath, high blood pressure, elevated heart beat, etc.?

As dantheman said, absolutely possible. Most people with coronary artery disease who have not have heart attacks do not have shortness of breath or rapid heart rate. High blood pressure is one of the causes of CAD, not a symptom of it. Furthermore--the 90-100% blocked artery that causes chest pain when you exercise is not the plaque that kills you. The body has developed new circulation around the blockage that is enough to keep that part of the heart alive. It's the minor plaque that suddenly ruptures causing a blood clot to completely block the artery that causes a heart attack, because the body has not had any time to grow new circulation. That's why fixing blocked coronary arteries with stents or surgery doesn't reduce the risk of cardiac death, except in certain situations, because the procedure doesn't address the lethal plaques.

Originally Posted by bigdude2468

The other factor which has been getting a lot of press lately is chronic inflammation that can result in plaque build up of the worst kind of cholesterol. Inflammation level can be measured, a C-reactive protein test and others can establish the level of inflammation.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...csk9-inhibitor

It's not clear to me whether inflammation is the cause of coronary artery disease or a symptom of it--due to the irritation caused by the plaques.

**bigdude2468** · 12-03-2024, 06:08 AM

The other component is Lipoprotein(a) a "different" type of cholesterol that has not been measured. This is another inflammatory marker and it appears to be hereditary. Treating people with high levels of Lipoprotein(a) with a new class of drugs such as Repatha that can lower LDL by 70%.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart...-heart-disease

**bigdude2468** · 12-05-2024, 05:56 AM

I previously mentioned the inflammation component. About a year ago I started taking Colchicine, an anti inflammatory used for gout. A long term study showed a significant reduction in events in patients that had had a stroke, myocardial infarction (heart attack) or that had chronic coronary heart disease. I have the holy grail of these, all three. Makes sense that an anti inflamatory drug could also reduce blood vessel inflation.

This exploratory analysis of the LoDoCo2 trial shows that, in patients with chronic coronary disease, continued long-term anti-inflammatory therapy with low-dose colchicine produced a consistent reduction in major cardiovascular events year by year during 5 years of follow-up. The main drivers of the primary composite end point, ischemia-driven coronary revascularization and myocardial infarction, were both consistently reduced by long-term colchicine treatment. These findings are in line with the hypothesis that subclinical vascular inflammation is an ongoing process and the notion that modulation of the innate immune system cannot be achieved by short-term treatment.5