Raft shopping: Suggestions?

[sar13]

So the wife and I (mostly I) want to get a raft. Budget dictates it will probably be a used one. I'm thinking 14-15 foot self bailer (obviously) and I would like a frame that holds a cooler and dry box. It will be used mostly locally on the Snake for day trips but I'd like to able to overnights in the future. I have some experience but would be interested in the opinions of those with more time at the oars.

Any rafts folks like or hate?
How about frames?
Oars?
etc?

Anyone in the region have or know of a used package for sale?

Thanks

[Conundrum]

The only advice I can give is take everyone's opinions with a grain of salt. I'm a Maravia guy. All the Aire guys will tell you why Maravia is bad. Then the Sotar guys will pipe in then the NRS guys etc... I would stick with late model Maravias, Aire, Tributary (Aire's budget brand), Sotar, Ryken, NRS, Hyside or Star. There are others but those are the better ones.

Used is the way to go unless you hook up a deal at the end of the season. Definitely get a self bailer. 14 is a great manageable size. You can still get a 3 bay frame for a 14 and use it as a paddle boat. 15 is good too but for just overnights and a couple extended trips, 14 is fine. I do everything from day to 8 day trips in a 13 footer.

Frames are a matter of choice. You will decide what you like over time. Look at the NRS Bighorn frames. They are adjustable so you can figure out what you like and make changes without cutting and welding. I have a Recretec but it's not changeable. There are a couple new coolers out-Yeti and Iceytec-both worth the money. Dryboxes-if you get a Bighorn frame it doesn't matter. Otherwise, your frame and drybox will be made to fit each other.

Oars-once again, lots of opinions. I run Polecats with Dynalite blades (glass carbon and spendy). Smokers are all wood and nice but spendy plus you can replace your blades. All sorts of options out there at all price levels. There are basic plastic covered aluminum shaft that aren't bad and not too expensive. If you are just learning, get cheap blades. You won't cry when you break them. When you get the hang of it, upgrade if you want and sell your blades at a boat swap.

www.nrsweb.com is a good site to browse and has a classifieds section. www.cascadeoutfitters.com is also a good site too.

For your first time around, I would just buy a used package with everything included. You'll need cams, ropes, pumps, paddles, pfds, etc and if you don't know what you want, you can spend a lot of money fast at a store.

I know a couple people with companies that always seem to know about used packages. Shoot me a pm if you are interested in that.

[sar13]

Thanks Conundrum. Good info. I hadn't heard of Maravia but they look pretty good on their site. I've always heard that Avon was one of the, if not the, best. Have they lost some ground to the other companies you mentioned?

My point in saying 14 or 15 footer is that if I find a 14'6" (like the Maravia) I am not ruling out a slightly bigger boat but I would prefer to stay above 14 for capacity sake.

I've checked out the two sites you mentioned and have a pretty good handle on what accessories I need and I have spent a fair bit of time on the river but most of it has been in plastic or in other folks rafts.

PM sent

[schwerty]

sar13- Conundrum pretty much has your answers... BUT, check into Riverboat Works, ( www.riverboatworks.com ) . The guy is outta Salida, CO and makes incredible frames, especially if you're gonna fish out of it. He also has used boats and packages that roll through his place in addition to new stuff. He can easily ship his frames if you're not into the 20+ hours of roadtripping. If you're interested, contact Ron...tell him Andy from Jackson sent you.

[kayaktheworld]

I suggest you read the title of the forum.

[Conundrum]

Forgot about Avon. Just try to avoid some of the older buckets and companies that have gone out of business. There's usually a reason and the existing companies will charge you for repair work.

[DamRepublican]

most raft shops, at least when I bought mine, will let you rent before you buy, and some will put that money towards the final purchase, it is definitely worth it, and IMHO NRS frames are the way to go, they are customizable and you can do it with two wrenches in a couple of minutes, it is great when you want to paddle friends/family down the river or change and take your fishing buddies out for a day on the river. Whatever you get don't get a rigid floor (mad dog frames I think does this) with the frame as a rock under the middle of the boat will hit the flexible floor, hit the rigid floor and put a nice hole/rip in your boat.

[cloudpeak]

Kayaktheworld's first whitewater experience was in a raft. He's the one in the yellow PFD, sitting on the middle thwart. He seems to be thinking, "I could really get to like this whitewater thing."



BTW, it was a Hyside raft.



Sorry for the blurry photo. I took a picture of an old print.

[Sad Santos]

I have an aire 13 footer and the nice thing about aire is the warranty. it's ten years on most boats whether you bought it from them or not. I bought mine used it was out of warranty and blew two tubes. they fixed it in one day at no cost. it helps that i went to the factory her in meridian, id. the only thing i dislike about my aire is the relief valve on the floor that can leave you witha soft floor after a long day. There is an option to have that vavle closed for some extra $$$. Also i really like conundrums boat.

[ski_faster]

Conundrum pretty much got it all in his post. When I bought my boat it was a toss up between the Maravia and the Aire. Maravia's feel so bomber. But Aire has the 10 year no fault warranty. I eventually went with the Aire just because of the 10 year warranty. I really like Conundrums Mavavia.

[Conundrum]

If you want to go a little bigger, this wouldn't be bad. I don't know the guy but could check it out for you.

http://boise.craigslist.org/boa/340435595.html

[sar13]

Thanks Conundrum - I just don't think I want to go that big. I rowed a 16 once last summer and it really changes the feel as well as making trailering with two people darn near impossible. Thanks for keeping you eyes open.

[Conundrum]

13ft Tributary (For Sale) Post #: 10052 Category: Rafts

13ft self-bailing Tributary raft with NRS frame & oars. Six used Hi-float lifejackets. Raft & frame/oars are in new condition. $2650.00
Contact: Bill Email: info@umpquarivers.com
Phone: 1-888-454-9696 Location: Oregon
Posted: 5/24/2007 Price: $2650.00

14ft Tributary Self-Bailing Raft (For Sale) Post #: 10051 Category: Rafts

14ft Tributary raft 3 thwarts, great paddle raft or gear boat for camping trips in new condition $2300.00. NRS Stern frame ($350.00) & 7 used Hi float lifejackets ($245.00)
Contact: Bill Email: info@umpquarivers.com
Phone: 1-888-454-9696 Location: Southern Oregon
Posted: 5/24/2007 Price: $2895.00

avon 14' adventure, frame, smoker paddels (For Sale) Post #: 10036 Category: Rafts

new,never in water,compleat white water setup.raft,frame,oars,pumps, amo cans,strapes,cargo net,casscade frame,cooler,dry box,self bailer,thwarts
Contact: jay griffis Email: flajag3@hotmail.com
Phone: 954-540-7733 Location: ft lauderdale, fla
Posted: 5/22/2007 Price: $4,000 obo, plus shiping

Self-bailing NRS E-145 Raft, Frame, Oar Mounts (For Sale) Post #: 10022 Category: Rafts

2000 Expedition Series NRS Raft. 7 feet wide and 20 inch tubes with 3 thwarts for ultimate stability. One professionally repaired floor hole. This raft is in very good condition and holds air all week. Includes NRS Compact Outfitter Raft Frame and NRS Tall Oar Mounts. You pay shipping at this price.
Contact: James Wilkes Email: jameswilkes2001@yahoo.com
Phone: 970 903 9428 Location: Durango, CO
Posted: 5/19/2007 Price: $2995.00

Hyside Outfitter 13' 10" - White Water Raft (For Sale) Post #: 10016 Category: Rafts

I believe it's the Hyside 162 SBU. 2 Removable thwarts. The frame is aluminum with front dry box. Rowers seat is removable and ready for a dry box. I'm selling all the gear with this. 2 America Cup Type V PFDs, 3 Carlisle Oars (Extra Heavy Duty), cargo platform, cargo net, repair kit, 2 throw ropes, pump, a never used biffy bucket with gamma seal (scat machine ready). A few cautionary patches on the bottom for some wear spots. Holds tight air for days. I have a nice utility trailer I am also selling on craigslist. It has a platform for the raft. I'll make a sweet deal for the trailer and raft.
Contact: Mark Email: m.satterwhite@comcast.net
Phone: 503-577-6625 Location: Portland, OR - Westside
Posted: 5/17/2007 Price: $4500

AIRE Super Puma W/ Full Fishing Frame Trailer Incl. (For Sale) Post #: 10010 Category: Rafts

This is a green '06 model that has seen the water a total of 20 days. Not a scratch on it. Included is a full DRE Gunnison Fishing Frame with both casting decks,thigh braces and anchor system, 2 Sawyer 9' MX-FG oars (plus many other small accessories i.e. pump, patch kit, straps etc...). Also included is a used Clackacraft trailer that this set-up fits on perfectly.
Contact: Andrew Brimeyer Email: andrewbrimeyer@msn.com
Phone: (970) 547-4699 Location: Breckenridge, CO.
Posted: 5/16/2007 Price: $5,295.00

great raft trailer (For Sale) Post #: 9986 Category: Trailers

I have a 1-year old raft trailer for sale. Approx. 9.5 feet by 7 feet. It's a light trailer so it would also be great for a car or smaller truck. I use it for a 14-foot raft (also for sale), and the size is perfect. It has a long tongue, so it's easy to maneuver.
Contact: Dan Email: danpberger@yahoo.com
Phone: Location: Missoula, MT
Posted: 5/11/2007 Price: $900 OBO

2003 Aire 156 Self Bailing Raft (For Sale) Post #: 9978 Category: Rafts

This boat is in excellent condition comes with two thwarts, no patches anywhere. Red
Contact: jeff Erekson Email: jeff.erekson@benfinancial.com
Phone: 208 870 7009 Location: Boise Idaho
Posted: 5/10/2007 Price: $2600.00

[RobT]

Lots of good advice so far. Conundrum's list of brands was good, adding in Avon, and maybe taking out the tributary’s, they aren't terrible, but I have heard of several bad experiences with them, unlike Aire's which are great boats.

I'd go smaller rather than bigger, and look for a 13 or 14' boat personally, or a 14-16' cat. My 14' cat is my choice of boat for most things from fishing, to IV+ day trips, to weekends wiht the family to longer trips running solo, but it is too small for some trips, and too big for others. I run polecat oars too, and think the are a great compromise between money and performance.

I will second at least looking at Riverboat Works, they have great stuff, and are a great outfit. Also check out www.downriverequip.comfor great frames, accessories, and some nice package deals. I run their cat tubes too, and have to say their rubber is a pretty good value.

Good luck and have fun. As others have mentioned I'd say keep your eyes open for a deal on a complete package used.

Rob

[jeremeyw]

hate to jump in on someone elses question. doe anyone know about star rafts or vanguards?

[Gerome]

Conundrum has it dialed.

I've commercially guided for a decade and now have my own setup. I'm a huge fan of less is more. Less you bring, less setup time, less required to haul at put-in & take out, more rafting and drinking time for you. I did a bare minimum overnight trip on the Tuolumne last year with 4 friends. I had my raft and all supplies at the road by the time another private trip had one oar frame at the road.

For boat size, 14 foot self bailer is pretty standard. If you want to row class IV or V one day, you have the option with a 14 foot boat, not really with the 15 foot. Don't think about it with the bucket boat. I have an NRS Longhorn frame with a slant board that they don't specifically offer on the website, but will make special that makes me more comfortable on more difficult rivers.

Boat type is definitely personal preference. Do you like pvc vs. hypalon? pvc is slightly lighter, hypalon is sticky. I love my sotar and have had good experience with customer service. Avon is solid, but I haven't seen anything new in the past two decades from them. I think I paddled a Maravia once, but it was unremarkable to me. On river repair might be great with Aire because of the internal bladder design.

[nate s]

I really like maravias for more technical water and NRS boats (any I beam floor really) for bigger water, but for a user friendly private boat it's hard to beat an AIRE. If you don't have experience patching and maintaining they are the way to go. Hell, even if you do they are by far the easiest boat to get going again. If you really mess it up, take it over there and they will make it like new.

Where and how will you store it? Maravias don't do so well being rolled up. Not only is the bundle huge, they develop leaks at the creases.

I think NRS is the stiffest of the Hypalon boats, Rikens are pretty soft no matter how much air you put in. Hyside is somewhere in between.

Sotars are nice but they are not known for their customer service. They are light and perform well, however.

If you are buying an older or cheaper boat, note the valve type as it can be hard to find parts for some types. Leafield is the best IMO. Also, stay away from glued PVC, many budget boats use this method and it is not reliable. You will be forever fixing seams and I beams, only to have them go again.

As for oars, I would recommend cataracts. They are reasonable, light, and have a decent feel. I finally killed my first pair last year after 6-7 years and over 300 river days, including lots of class V on big water and creeks. Not a fan of Sawyers.

NRS frames are hard to beat. You can use the seat bar and foot bar and short side rails for day trips, then throw on more stuff for cooler and dry box bays. The lo pro fittings weigh a little more, but it is nice to have a breakdown, adjustable frame.

Have you considered a Cat? The frames are a little more spendy but the boat is much less $$$.

[sar13]

Thanks for the additional info. Purchase just got pushed back a bit since we bought a new 30" Samsung TV and the wife tried my Full Suss mtn bike and realized it is time to get rid of her hardtail.

I really appreciate all the comparisons and it will help me decide and negotiate once I find a used package.

I actually have access to a cat pretty much whenever I want and enjoy rowing it. Two issues with the cat: taking more family and friends and starting to take my 1.5 yr old this summer. IN both situations it is usually mellow water. The cat I use maxes out at 3 or 4 passengers with moderate comfort but a 14' raft will carry 6 passengers with a frame without too much trouble and more comfort. Also, I am more comfortable letting our daughter hang out in a raft with 20" sides around her than on the cat with the open bow. IN either case she will always have her PFD and Mom will have a hand on her but I still feel better about the raft for her.

[cloudpeak]

Thanks for the additional info. Purchase just got pushed back a bit since we bought a new 30" Samsung TV and the wife tried my Full Suss mtn bike and realized it is time to get rid of her hardtail.

I really appreciate all the comparisons and it will help me decide and negotiate once I find a used package.

I actually have access to a cat pretty much whenever I want and enjoy rowing it. Two issues with the cat: taking more family and friends and starting to take my 1.5 yr old this summer. IN both situations it is usually mellow water. The cat I use maxes out at 3 or 4 passengers with moderate comfort but a 14' raft will carry 6 passengers with a frame without too much trouble and more comfort. Also, I am more comfortable letting our daughter hang out in a raft with 20" sides around her than on the cat with the open bow. IN either case she will always have her PFD and Mom will have a hand on her but I still feel better about the raft for her.

Water that had always seemed super easy to me in my kayak or the raft suddenly looked a lot more dangerous when I had the kids in the raft. The kids always wore their PFDs and wetsuits. Nonetheless, it still made me nervous when they were little. The 14' self-bailing Hyside raft made me more comfortable with the kids than I would have been with a cat raft. In the picture I posted earlier in this thread, the littlest guy was 2 years old.

Of course, now two of the kids kayak stuff that's way harder than anything I would consider boating.