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  1. #8076
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  2. #8077
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    well there's like 30 million people who live within ~3 hrs. of the jersey shore, and very limited coastline, and the beaches are actually nice, so it's not just the government proppping it up. Even if you couldn't get insurance at all people would pay money for it. Less money, but real money.
    90% of those 30 million people could never afford an almost 7 figure cape cod a block from the beach without very cheap credit and very very cheap insurance. Maybe 95%.

    It's absurd that billions of taxpayer money funded rebuilding after Sandy. That is propping up assets owned by the wealthy, because, by definition, you're wealthy if you own beachfront or near beachfront property.

    Let's not even start with the hundreds of billions of beach replenishment over the last thirty years.

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  3. #8078
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    Probably only 1% could afford that. But there's not anywhere near 300,000 beachfront properties on the Jersey shore, probably not even 30,000. So to some people it has value.

    I highly doubt the "hundreds of billions" in beach replenishment too.

    But we actually agree, I don't think the Federal government should be in the business of guaranteeing insurance coverage for oceanfront property and I don't think they should be paying for beach replenishment either. All I'm saying is that those places would still be worth money without those things.

    here's a searchable "beach nourishment" database. Consider the source, as these people seemfrom a quick look at their site to have an agenda, but it shows a total cost of all replenishement programs in Jersey to be about $1.5 bn since the 1950's: https://gim2.aptim.com/ASBPANationwideRenourishment/ Scanning though it it looks like $5bn would be a high estimate for all beach replenishment programs, ever, in the US. fwiw
    Last edited by iceman; 01-14-2020 at 10:04 PM.

  4. #8079
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    Yeah, you're right, what do I know, I thought it was more, but 8 billion since the 1920s. https://www.propublica.org/article/t...erable-beaches

    Mostly futile efforts, though. One good nor Easter wipes it out.

    I think there are a whole lot more properties on the Jersey coast than you think. LBI must have over a thousand alone. It's almost urban there in density. Same down in Margate and the other towns near AC.

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  5. #8080
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    The NJ beaches could be viewed as a public resource and worthy of public funds to keep them usable. Most people may not be able to afford property close to the beach, but they still come in great numbers to enjoy the beaches. And as somebody pointed out, the beaches on the Jersey shore are great. I'd take them over California beaches and that cold water any day. But the point is, to say that beach replenishment primarily benefits the wealthy is false. Everybody uses the beaches.

    As for all the public money that supposedly went to rebuilding after Sandy, it sure didn't go to the homeowners who didn't have flood insurance. Maybe they offered them loans, but nobody was handing out free money to rebuild houses. My in-laws explored every avenue for something like that and came away with nothing.

  6. #8081
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    90% of those 30 million people could never afford an almost 7 figure cape cod a block from the beach without very cheap credit and very very cheap insurance. Maybe 95%.

    It's absurd that billions of taxpayer money funded rebuilding after Sandy. That is propping up assets owned by the wealthy, because, by definition, you're wealthy if you own beachfront or near beachfront property.

    Let's not even start with the hundreds of billions of beach replenishment over the last thirty years.
    Assuming your math is even close, that means there are 1.5 million people who can afford a beach house. Even with 1% that's still a minimum of 300k people who can provide demand in a relatively small area.
    While 8 billion seems like a lot, I imagine we spend 8 billion in drones and missiles in just the past 10 years so 8 billion for sand and insurance since the 20's doesn't seem too bad.
    You would probably be less bitter if you just realized there are lots of wealthy people. You're wealthy in global terms, but if you can't buy a 40 year old condo or a run down LBI house, there are apparently plenty of people who can.

  7. #8082
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    Is the stock market going to tank?

    T dividend is 5% and the stock is down 5% from its high this month. VZ is weak too.

    I like T and want to buy it but this type of action in high dividend payers without news is troubling. If telecom earnings slow what does that mean for economy?

  8. #8083
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncskier View Post
    Assuming your math is even close, that means there are 1.5 million people who can afford a beach house. Even with 1% that's still a minimum of 300k people who can provide demand in a relatively small area.
    While 8 billion seems like a lot, I imagine we spend 8 billion in drones and missiles in just the past 10 years so 8 billion for sand and insurance since the 20's doesn't seem too bad.
    You would probably be less bitter if you just realized there are lots of wealthy people. You're wealthy in global terms, but if you can't buy a 40 year old condo or a run down LBI house, there are apparently plenty of people who can.
    I'll bet you a hundred bucks that of ton of the people who "bought" homes all up and down the Jersey Shore will have to sell or simply unload them to survive old age. The game of debt musical chairs, plus taxes, defeats them. Like they actually "own" them.

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  9. #8084
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    The NJ beaches could be viewed as a public resource and worthy of public funds to keep them usable. Most people may not be able to afford property close to the beach, but they still come in great numbers to enjoy the beaches. And as somebody pointed out, the beaches on the Jersey shore are great. I'd take them over California beaches and that cold water any day. But the point is, to say that beach replenishment primarily benefits the wealthy is false. Everybody uses the beaches.

    As for all the public money that supposedly went to rebuilding after Sandy, it sure didn't go to the homeowners who didn't have flood insurance. Maybe they offered them loans, but nobody was handing out free money to rebuild houses. My in-laws explored every avenue for something like that and came away with nothing.
    If the NJ beaches are a "public resource", than make it free and easy for me to drive right up and enjoy them. Robert Mose's Jones Beach is a public resource. Most towns make it very hard to park and charge fees to use "their" beach. That is not a resource for 99% of New Jersey residents. It's restrictive class and racist ownership of that beach by wealthy homeowners in that town, utilizing state and federal funds to enhance the value of their homes and just live better. The Jersey Shore isn't the Hamptons, but, as I said, by definition and relativity, the homeowners there are wealthy, especially if it's a second home, which most are.

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  10. #8085
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    I'm sure you're right that some towns make access difficult if they can, but there's still plenty of beaches for the public to use. "Public resource" doesn't necessarily mean it's free (ever been to a national park?), and obviously some sort of fee needs to be charged for lifeguards, litter control, etc.Forty-four beaches the public can access in New Jersey seems pretty good to me. Costs $5 to access Island Beach State Park, for instance, or $50 for an annual pass to all the state park beaches. That's a bargain. And judging by the amount of people there in the summer, lots of locals take advantage of it. Also, before Memorial Day and after Labor Day, there is no fee at all.

    Anyway, not my state so I won't pretend to know all there is to know, but based on my visits it seems like a lot of easy access to a lot of pretty sweet beaches. Go off season and they're practically empty, and free. If I lived in NJ, I'd be taking full advantage of the resource.

  11. #8086
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    Island Beach park is cool, spent a lot of days and nights there in my drug addled yute, but, bottom line, places like that are few and far between and hard to get to. Or, to put it this way, think of the rest of the Jersey Shore as Island beach, but with private property owners allowed to spoil that place, and restrict access to others that want to use that place. Also, a whole road infrastructure to those places to enhance their RE value. There's a whole lot more of that.

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  12. #8087
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    Plus lots of big hair and long nails on the beach. High heels in the sand not unheard-of.

  13. #8088
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    That's Seaside Heights right up da road, and Asbury. Although Asbury has changed an awful lot over the last decade or so. Leave it to gay people to clean certain places up.

    Gay people do a really good job at RE asset value fluffing.
    Last edited by Benny Profane; 01-15-2020 at 05:10 PM.

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  14. #8089
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    BA is a State Sponsored Enterprise. That's why it has held up. Maybe Elon Musk can start a new aircraft builder.

  15. #8090
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    "Because of this interdependence of market returns, it is easy for investors to convince themselves that markets can be due for good or bad years. And with the stellar performance in U.S. markets over the previous decade, it feels like a correction is warranted. However, if you examine the data you will realize that this thinking is just as flawed as the person expecting a tails after seeing five heads in a row. There is little to no relationship between prior 10-year returns and growth over the next 10 years."

    https://ofdollarsanddata.com/the-investors-fallacy/

  16. #8091
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    Maybe, but there are softening global markets, we don’t exist in a bubble. (Heh)
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  17. #8092
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Maybe, but there are softening global markets, we don’t exist in a bubble. (Heh)
    Yes, we are the world.


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  18. #8093
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    phew, in the early twentieth century they would just blame the jews.

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  19. #8094
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    SPY annualized return since the 2000 peak is around 5%. 10% from the 2018 peak.

  20. #8095
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    Is the stock market going to tank?

    Market cap of AAPL is equal to the entire Australian stock market.

  21. #8096
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    BA is a State Sponsored Enterprise. That's why it has held up. Maybe Elon Musk can start a new aircraft builder.
    Wall street et al already took over an aircraft builder. Its name is Boeing.

  22. #8097
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    Would you crucify us on a cross of gold?

  23. #8098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Certainly makes living in a nice ski town or beach place very expensive.
    Oh snap.

  24. #8099
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    Is the stock market going to tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Wall street et al already took over an aircraft builder. Its name is Boeing.
    reading into one of my former cioís made that pretty apparent at the time https://en.everybodywiki.com/Kim_Hammonds

    boeing to deutsche bank, the ibm/red hat deal. thereís no way a single IC at red hat respected her in any regard.

    edit: i bought BA in the $60s and played swings up to $138. iím not good at gambling. i thought buy back levels were too high at that point.

  25. #8100
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    m series jong thinks he's wicked smaht
    skid luxury

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