Is the stock market going to tank?

**glademaster** · 04-01-2020, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

I want skiing and travel to Europe back. I'm selfish.

Well yeah, I'm not talking about restrictions on individual freedoms, I'm talking about a shift in workplace culture, rethinking the constant obsession with growth and productivity, dismantling the wage slavery that many are forced into, our warped lack of effective social welfare programs in the U.S., challenging the need for most of the workforce to be stuck at a desk in an office 50 hours per week, etc.

**Benny Profane** · 04-01-2020, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by glademaster

Benny gets it.

Also, as a serious question, do you genuinely want things to go back to the way they were? If so, why?

I don't want to see the complete downfall of society, but this strikes me as an opportunity to create a different and better future, instead of trying to return to a "normal" that was sick and depraved and deeply flawed.

Seriously, the old, "we can't pay for that" meme that responsible adults have been using the past few decades is now trash, after we spent 4 trillion to save the rich, again.

**Timberridge** · 04-01-2020, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by glademaster

I don't want to see the complete downfall of society, but this strikes me as an opportunity to create a different and better future, instead of trying to return to a "normal" that was sick and depraved and deeply flawed.

You've somehow stumbled upon the ethos of why I started the Branch Covidians. If you would like to join a like minded group of individuals in southern VT, pm me.

**glademaster** · 04-01-2020, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Seriously, the old, "we can't pay for that" meme that responsible adults have been using the past few decades is now trash, after we spent 4 trillion to save the rich, again.

Now you're picking up what I'm putting down.

**Toadman** · 04-01-2020, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Dude, they just cancelled the Olympics, run by the most corrupt international sports sanctioning body on Earth, and now the NFL is getting nervous. I mean, would you pile into Ohio State stadium with a hundred thousand others in September, not one vaccinated, including yourself?

Edit: a little side note. The U.S. Olympic committee lobbied for 200 million of that bailout money. Sleazy motherfuckers. Like the athletes were going to see a penny.

It never hurts to ask. I thought US congress was the most corrupt. At least top 3. FIFA has to be way up there on the list too.

**Timberridge** · 04-01-2020, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by glademaster

Now you're picking up what I'm putting down.

Heck yeah brother Glade.

**MultiVerse** · 04-01-2020, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Listen, the next stage is civil unrest. Forget about football. Hungry people with guns.

Maybe this time is different but for FWIW people tend to behave more cooperatively during a crisis.

"The idea that when disaster strikes people panic and social order collapses is very popular. It is also a myth. A huge research literature shows disaster makes people *more* pro-social. They cooperate. They support each other. They're better than ever."

https://twitter.com/dgardner/status/1243144205167362048

**bennymac** · 04-01-2020, 02:26 PM

I'm all for a better society. And no one who is paying attention thinks this isn't going to still be an issue we are grappling with in a year. In fact no one in here argued that - so not sure why BP feels he needs to educate me on that point.

But you guys are saying that fear will prevent people from going to their Cheesecake Factories and Applebees - fuck if those restaurants were open now they would be serving food and people would be there buying it - you think in 6 months people are not going to be tired of all this - especially those who have had covid already?

And before you freak out - remind yourself that I already said I'm not justifying it - just saying your opinions of human nature are, in my opinion, wrong. I'll guess we'll see. BP and Glademaster - you have more faith in people listening to common sense than I do. People are scared but that will pass - people want their freedom and their french fries and that's not going anywhere.

**glademaster** · 04-01-2020, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Timberridge

You've somehow stumbled upon the ethos of why I started the Branch Covidians. If you would like to join a like minded group of individuals in southern VT, pm me.

I appreciate the offer, but I refuse to belong to any organization that would have me as a member.

**Dantheman** · 04-01-2020, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by glademaster

Benny gets it.

Also, as a serious question, do you genuinely want things to go back to the way they were? If so, why?

I don't want to see the complete downfall of society, but this strikes me as an opportunity to create a different and better future, instead of trying to return to a "normal" that was sick and depraved and deeply flawed.

Please allow myself to repeat...myself:

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Hell yeah, fred, hell yeah. The intelligent response here since this will happen again, and it would benefit society greatly the rest of the time, would be to create a robust social safety net and a set of rules for our economy that place some degree of value on stability and resilience. But that would be the intelligent thing to do, so of course we're not going to do any of that.

Long-term, I'd love to see that kind of social change, but I'm also all too cognizant of our current political reality. Short-term, a return to "normal" meaning my kid goes to school and plays with friends, we have friends over for dinner, etc. sounds pretty damn nice.

**Benny Profane** · 04-01-2020, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Maybe this time is different but for FWIW people tend to behave more cooperatively during a crisis.

"The idea that when disaster strikes people panic and social order collapses is very popular. It is also a myth. A huge research literature shows disaster makes people *more* pro-social. They cooperate. They support each other. They're better than ever."

https://twitter.com/dgardner/status/1243144205167362048

Oh sure, short term events like 9/11 or hurricanes or fires. This one is something the modern world has never seen. Looks like a good two month lockdown. Millions laid off. Laid off, not furloughed. You think they're just all going back to work when the all clear sounds? No. 40% of Americans couldn't come up with 400 bucks before all this. Almost half! And most in the other half are far from liquid. Nobody has any money. Nobody is getting that stupid check for a long time. And the economy isn't just going to churn to decent levels like they turned a switch. This is a gift from heaven for so many businesses to clear out dead wood in their labor force and start off fresh, in the new world. At much cheaper levels. Fuck, the entire restaraunt industry is total fucking toast. Who knows how that comes back.

**glademaster** · 04-01-2020, 02:40 PM

Excuse me then, Fred and DTM got it before Benny. But we're all on the same page.

Also, Benny hit the nail on the head with that last post. A lot of people who were recently laid off aren't going to be getting their jobs back when this is all over. There are going to be tens of millions of Americans out of work when this is all said and done. There might be pent up demand for Cheesecake Factory and a shiny new pickup truck, but an awful lot of people are going to be absolutely eviscerated financially by this, and aren't going to be able to indulge that demand no matter how badly they want a 6000 calorie dinner.

It's troubling. But it's also an opportunity to enact changes that will prevent us from getting caught with our pants down again. Or will at least prevent it from being as calamitous.

**Toadman** · 04-01-2020, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by glademaster

Also, as a serious question, do you genuinely want things to go back to the way they were? If so, why?

I don't want things to go back to the way they were.

I would like to see single payer health care.
I would like to see minimum 2 weeks paid vacation for hourly workers.
I would like to see the avg. PTO go to 4 weeks in America. Europe gets it. Six weeks would be nice.
I would like to see Republican and Democratic congress people working together for the common good. (LOL, one can dream...)
I would like to see our homeless and vets taken care of.
I would like to see justice for all.
I would like to see a world where teachers and doctors make more money than pro athletes.
Lastly, I would like to see numerous uncrowded powder days on the slopes.

**skibrd** · 04-01-2020, 02:45 PM

All of these “in two months” arguments are assuming the virus doesn’t mutate, which it already has. The CDC (and associated bio-medical companies) have found two strains and are concerned there will be more. COVID-19 is mutating faster then any known virus.

We may be fine and have a vaccine for the original two strains, but what about future strains? That’s the question, that’s what thr worry is about.

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**Dantheman** · 04-01-2020, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Oh sure, short term events like 9/11 or hurricanes or fires. This one is something the modern world has never seen. Looks like a good two month lockdown.

FWIW, the same phenomenon was reported throughout the Siege of Sarajevo, which lasted three years.

**bennymac** · 04-01-2020, 02:52 PM

possible we will need to get covid shots every year to keep this under control just like there are regular flu shots every year (and yes I know that coronaviruses and influenza viruses are different beasts)

and just because a virus mutates doesn't necessarily make people who were immune to the first one automatically no longer immune to the second version - that would depend on the mutation making the virus different enough that our immune systems don't recognise it at all and the antibodies we made to the first one ineffectual versus the new version

**GeezerSteve** · 04-01-2020, 02:53 PM

You have broken Happiness Rule #1: Low Expectations. Vibes to ya

Originally Posted by Toadman

I would like to see single payer health care.
I would like to see minimum 2 weeks paid vacation for hourly workers.
I would like to see the avg. PTO go to 4 weeks in America. Europe gets it. Six weeks would be nice.
I would like to see Republican and Democratic congress people working together for the common good. (LOL, one can dream...)
I would like to see our homeless and vets taken care of.
I would like to see justice for all.
I would like to see a world where teachers and doctors make more money than pro athletes.
Lastly, I would like to see numerous uncrowded powder days on the slopes.

**Benny Profane** · 04-01-2020, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by skibrd

All of these “in two months” arguments are assuming the virus doesn’t mutate, which it already has. The CDC (and associated bio-medical companies) have found two strains and are concerned there will be more. COVID-19 is mutating faster then any known virus.

We may be fine and have a vaccine for the original two strains, but what about future strains? That’s the question, that’s what thr worry is about.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

That's the real horror. Just like 1918. A lull in the summer, we all go back to life, and then a more ferocious attack from a mutation in the fall.

**Dantheman** · 04-01-2020, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by skibrd

COVID-19 is mutating faster then any known virus.

Got a source for this claim? Because I'm pretty sure it's demonstrably false.

Originally Posted by skibrd

We may be fine and have a vaccine for the original two strains, but what about future strains? That’s the question, that’s what thr worry is about

In that case you apply the influenza vaccination model and life goes on.

**glademaster** · 04-01-2020, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by GeezerSteve

You have broken Happiness Rule #1: Low Expectations. Vibes to ya

I had never heard that phrase before I moved to the PNW. That regional pseudo-aphorism explains a lot about this area.

**bennymac** · 04-01-2020, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

That's the real horror. Just like 1918. A lull in the summer, we all go back to life, and then a more ferocious attack from a mutation in the fall.

But that assumes that people infected with covid now would not have full or even partial immunity to this mutated fall version.

*Epidemiologic Characterization of the 1918 Influenza Pandemic Summer Wave in Copenhagen: Implications for Pandemic Control Strategies

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674012/

**GeezerSteve** · 04-01-2020, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by glademaster

I had never heard that phrase before I moved to the PNW. That regional pseudo-aphorism explains a lot about this area.

You don't get around much, eh? Denmark's secret to happiness: low expectations; https://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyl...ectations.html

**cantspin** · 04-01-2020, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Toadman

I don't want things to go back to the way they were.

I would like to see single payer health care.
I would like to see minimum 2 weeks paid vacation for hourly workers.
I would like to see the avg. PTO go to 4 weeks in America. Europe gets it. Six weeks would be nice.
I would like to see Republican and Democratic congress people working together for the common good. (LOL, one can dream...)
I would like to see our homeless and vets taken care of.
I would like to see justice for all.
I would like to see a world where teachers and doctors make more money than pro athletes.
Lastly, I would like to see numerous uncrowded powder days on the slopes.

My hope is the democratic primary continues with online voting and the youth as in me show up and votes online. If that happens I honestly believe Bernie could reel Biden back into a well contested race.

Then trump kills enough people with the ventilator shenanigans and Bernie waltzes into a ravaged America just in time to implement health care for all and free college

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**SKIP IN7RO** · 04-01-2020, 03:05 PM

^Yeah, what he said.

**splat** · 04-01-2020, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Toadman

I don't want things to go back to the way they were.

I would like to see single payer health care.
I would like to see minimum 2 weeks paid vacation for hourly workers.
I would like to see the avg. PTO go to 4 weeks in America. Europe gets it. Six weeks would be nice.
I would like to see Republican and Democratic congress people working together for the common good. (LOL, one can dream...)
I would like to see our homeless and vets taken care of.
I would like to see justice for all.
I would like to see a world where teachers and doctors make more money than pro athletes.
Lastly, I would like to see numerous uncrowded powder days on the slopes.

Amen.