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  1. #10401
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    So, just how does government mandated cancellation of private debt work? Under the 5th Amendment, lenders would be owed compensation equal to the amount of the canceled debt -- or maybe more. It would be much more efficient to write checks to the masses and avoid the constitutional clusterfuck.
    But it's cool just to bail out all the moneychangers with tax money?

  2. #10402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    But it's cool just to bail out all the moneychangers with tax money?
    So, you are unable or unwilling to answer my question, so you construct a strawman, eh? Again, Bunny, how can the government mandate cancellation of private debt without paying compensation to the lenders under the 5th Amendment in an amount equal to or greater than the cancelled debt?

  3. #10403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    They always mattered to many on both sides up to this point. After this latest bailout, if we ever hear one senator or congressperson try to do that bullshit again, we should all wait outside their house with the rotten vegetables we've all hoarded and let them have it when they come outside.
    If by some small chance a dem gets into the WH, then the deficits will matter. But right now, it's all about keeping the economy from imploding.

    I'm still surprised that market hasn't dropped into the teens again. But maybe folks are not panicking as much this time around?
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  4. #10404
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    So, just how does government mandated cancellation of private debt work? Under the 5th Amendment, lenders would be owed compensation equal to the amount of the canceled debt -- or maybe more. It would be much more efficient to write checks to the masses and avoid the constitutional clusterfuck.
    I think ultimately the debt will be owned by the gov. Fannie, Freddie, student loans, corporate bonds/debt they buy, etc.... So they can cancel it then.

  5. #10405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    If by some small chance a dem gets into the WH, then the deficits will matter. But right now, it's all about keeping the economy from imploding.

    I'm still surprised that market hasn't dropped into the teens again. But maybe folks are not panicking as much this time around?
    But, deficits don't matter. Well, of course they do if we 're talking about universal health care or educating the poor and middle class, or even now when Pelosi is calling for means testing for Social Security and now these measly little checks everyone is getting in August, but, hey, amazing how deficits hardly matter when both parties fund the military or bail out a horribly run company like Boeing and the entire financial industry. Crazy, huh?

  6. #10406
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcsquared View Post
    I think ultimately the debt will be owned by the gov. Fannie, Freddie, student loans, corporate bonds/debt they buy, etc.... So they can cancel it then.
    So, the federal government buys the notes for market value and then forgives the notes? That would be constitutional, but bizarrely expensive and likely politically impossible. Those of us who worked our asses off to get debt free by age ____ would be pretty fucking pissed off paying for debt relief for Bunny's condo or a mag dentist's $80K Audi. Fuck that. Just write checks to poor and unemployed working class people, fer chrissake.

  7. #10407
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    So, you are unable or unwilling to answer my question, so you construct a strawman, eh? Again, Bunny, how can the government mandate cancellation of private debt without paying compensation to the lenders under the 5th Amendment in an amount equal to or greater than the cancelled debt?
    Well, admittedly above my pay grade, but, one massive debt that has been an albatross on our economy for years and now is just immoral abuse of an entire generation is student debt, most backed by the U.S. government . Looks easy to me. Executive order. Poof.

  8. #10408
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    So, the federal government buys the notes for market value and then forgives the notes? That would be constitutional, but bizarrely expensive and likely politically impossible. Those of us who worked our asses off to get debt free by age ____ would be pretty fucking pissed off paying for debt relief for Bunny's condo or a mag dentist's $80K Audi. Fuck that. Just write checks to poor and unemployed working class people, fer chrissake.
    That's actually not a bad idea. Hell, Trump now has power over a half trillion dollars slush fund. Imagine that. We just gave him that money to do what he feels with it. Start writing checks, orange man.

  9. #10409
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    So, to be clear, you favor collecting taxes from working class people to relieve student debt of a guy making $1,000,000 a year on Wall Street? Have you actually thought this out?

    Jesus Christ, it's so simple. Write checks directly to poor and unemployed working people.

  10. #10410
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    Yes I have. It's called working towards the future, instead of being mired in the past. Otherwise, we're fucked. Worked for Germany.

    And the children of Wall Street Titans have no debt. C'mon.

  11. #10411
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    Just google reading some exceptions .. and I'm way out of my lane here, but could it be justified that cancelling private debt (and maybe preventing collapse) is done to protect public health, safety, or welfare, and not a 'taking' - noxious use test?
    No way this would fly, just wondering how someone might try.

  12. #10412
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    So, the federal government buys the notes for market value and then forgives the notes? That would be constitutional, but bizarrely expensive and likely politically impossible.
    But isnt that basically what is happening? Fed buying MBS, corporate bonds, they just got a blank check to buy whatever they want. They already have a large percentage of the mortgage debt.

  13. #10413
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    So, to be clear, you favor collecting taxes from working class people to relieve student debt of a guy making $1,000,000 a year on Wall Street? Have you actually thought this out?

    Jesus Christ, it's so simple. Write checks directly to poor and unemployed working people.
    Well, if we end up with 5 trillion in stimulus, it’s all irrelevant. The debt will just be too big to reasonably have a functioning economy. It’s just playing with zeros at that point. Might as well do crazy things until the inevitable collapse, perhaps? (Serious/not serious)
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  14. #10414
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    Just write checks to poor and unemployed working class people, fer chrissake.
    I like the idea of debit cards or a type of script that has to be spent. Checks are too easy to deposit.

  15. #10415
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Well, if we end up with 5 trillion in stimulus, it’s all irrelevant. The debt will just be too big to reasonably have a functioning economy. It’s just playing with zeros at that point. Might as well do crazy things until the inevitable collapse, perhaps? (Serious/not serious)
    You are conflating fed govt debt and private debt. Private debt resulting from the Toilet Paper Panic of 2020 will be big, although not as big as the aftermath of the 2008 crash, and much of it will be dialed down (secured debt) or eliminated (unsecured debt) through bankruptcy.

  16. #10416
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    I like the idea of debit cards or a type of script that has to be spent. Checks are too easy to deposit.
    Good idea. Restrict to food, medicine, rent and other equivalent essentials.

  17. #10417
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    We are commiting to a tax hike down the road. A VAT is ok for me.

  18. #10418
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    You are conflating fed govt debt and private debt. Private debt resulting from the Toilet Paper Panic of 2020 will be big, although not as big as the aftermath of the 2008 crash, and much of it will be dialed down (secured debt) or eliminated (unsecured debt) through bankruptcy.
    I disagree. Millions will be made by the forward thinking toilet paper hoarders/investors. They got in on the ground floor. Costco Barrons, if you will. Carpetbaggers.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  19. #10419
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    You are conflating fed govt debt and private debt. Private debt resulting from the Toilet Paper Panic of 2020 will be big, although not as big as the aftermath of the 2008 crash, and much of it will be dialed down (secured debt) or eliminated (unsecured debt) through bankruptcy.
    Uncle Joe, Mr. Electable, made those bankruptcies much harder to do with his wonderful history of legislation against his beloved working man and woman and devotion to his donors from the credit industry, so, if he is elected, which is a stretch at this point, don't expect him to help. I'd trust Trump more, because he understands buying votes.

  20. #10420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    That's basically food stamps.
    Sure, send them to everybody and let restaurants and retailers take them.

  21. #10421
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    I like the idea of debit cards or a type of script that has to be spent. Checks are too easy to deposit.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    Good idea. Restrict to food, medicine, rent and other equivalent essentials.
    That's basically food stamps, and it is a good idea.
    Last edited by Ted Striker; 04-03-2020 at 11:04 AM. Reason: Deleted and re-posted with quotes

  22. #10422
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    Sure, send them to everybody and let restaurants and retailers take them.
    Absolutely.

    It gets around means testing as well. "Here's money to spend into the economy "

  23. #10423
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    I like the idea of debit cards or a type of script that has to be spent. Checks are too easy to deposit.
    So you just take a 5% or 10% haircut on your script to cash it via 3rd party. Not really efficient.

  24. #10424
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    So you just take a 5% or 10% haircut on your script to cash it via 3rd party. Not really efficient.
    SNAP fraud is less than 1% and I suspect fraudulent cash swaps get spent anyway.

  25. #10425
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    How ironic is it that what started as a conservative administration with republicans running the senate, house, and white house, will ultimately end up with some of the most socialist actions ever enacted by the US government?

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