Is the stock market going to tank?

[HD333]

Here is another easy one.

Cap payback at Principal plus inflation regardless of interest rate.

I can get behind this.

Wiping out student loan dept not so much.

You didn’t HAVE to go to a $65k a year school, you could have gone to a state school for $65k total. You took the risk that you would have a return on your investment. Getting an Art History degree from Duke won’t get you that ROI, you rolled the dice now you have to pay for it.


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[char_]

No shit. Is there anything more entitlement than rooting for student loan forgiveness? I know many people that scrimped and saved to pay it off.

Tax breaks for rich people has to be up there since we know it has no bearing on income or job increases for anyone but the wealthy.

[El Chupacabra]

I can get behind this.

Wiping out student loan dept not so much.

You didn’t HAVE to go to a $65k a year school, you could have gone to a state school for $65k total. You took the risk that you would have a return on your investment. Getting an Art History degree from Duke won’t get you that ROI, you rolled the dice now you have to pay for it.


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This. I'd support a subsidized interest rate reduction or elimination. But borrowers can pay back their loans.

I tend to agree with a lot of left-leaning political positions, but not the free forgiveness of all student loan debt.

[jono]

The only thing needed to reform student lending is to turn off the total protection of schools. Let (at least) the most egregiously ill-advised students hold a few schools responsible and actual advising would alter the landscape in less than a year. Predation of 18 year olds is not an essential economic function.

[LeeLau]

Bob. Still have FCEL? I stopped out with a loss this reshort.

Added DASH short. RIOT long

Added QS warrants

[Mazderati]

Everyone knows 17 and 18 year old kids wholly understand the ramifications of financial decisions that could last a lifetime. Fuck those kids. /s

[sirbumpsalot]

Everyone knows 17 and 18 year old kids wholly understand the ramifications of financial decisions that could last a lifetime. Fuck those kids. /s

If you have the intelligence to reach the university....you have the intelligence to figure out that if your allowance doesn't cover it....you can't have it and you probably have the parents that spend 17-18yrs teaching you that.

[gravitylover]

Bob. Still have FCEL? I stopped out with a loss this reshort.

Added DASH short. RIOT long

Added QS warrants

Did I see FCEL at ~$10 this morning? Nice move in just a few days.

[AdironRider]

Student loan forgiveness is a massive handout to the upper classes of society ..... who don't fucking need it.

[skaredshtles]

Student loan forgiveness is a massive handout to the upper classes of society ..... who don't fucking need it.

Wait a second...

The *upper* class kids are taking out loans for college?

I'll be damned. That was unexpected.

Citation?

[AdironRider]

Wait a second...

The *upper* class kids are taking out loans for college?

I'll be damned. That was unexpected.

Citation?

Believe it. 25% of people with student loans are graduate students who hold over 50% of the outstanding debt. The bottom 60% of households would only receive 34% of the student loan forgiveness benefit also.

While for profit schools were by an large a scam preying on lower class attendees, the percentage of debt held by those is minimal compared to the doctors and lawyers of the world, who, you guessed it, don't need a fucking bailout.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fr...ness-proposal/

[summit]

No shit. Is there anything more entitlement than rooting for student loan forgiveness? I know many people that scrimped and saved to pay it off.

Yea... basically fuck you if you didn't go to college, or were responsible and paid your loan off! You should for some reason be saddled with the debt of the people who were irresponsible by taking out loans that were unjustified. (Yes there are also some cases of bad luck).

Schools know that tthere is a firehouse of unqualified loans so they boost their fees and amenities to compete for this. Predatory schools recruit students who are not qualified and doom them with crap schooling. Many schools, including the fancy reputable ones, are actively recruiting people into degrees that offer little to no economic justification for incredible degree costs.

The system is broken as fuck with insane perverse incentives. THe only way you could make it more perverse and insane is to give this unjustified debt to those who didn't agree to it and got no benefit from the education funded by the debt. It only further encourages the insanity.

[Toadman]

No shit. Is there anything more entitlement than rooting for student loan forgiveness? I know many people that scrimped and saved to pay it off.

I'm one of those people. Was fortunate to have had a few scholarships to help pay some of the tuition. But still had over $20k in student loans plus interest when I graduated. Busted my ass after college during a recession to make ends meet. It was a serious motivator to work and earn a living to make that $287/month student loan payment each month. Sacrificed a lot while I watched some of my friends who had wealthier parents pay their tuition and drive off with a brand new car after graduation. Me, I drove a bare bones pickup truck with no power anything, or a rear bumper. Never begrudged them anything for getting a head start in life. Just meant I worked harder and longer to get to a good place in life.

IMO, if you forgive these loans, you end up with a bunch of entitled feeling young pricks who don't know the meaning of the phrase, "an honest day's work."

[char_]

got no benefit from the education funded by the debt. It only further encourages the insanity.

Ok, so I can understand the reasoning behind the rest of it, but are you saying that society as a whole doesn’t benefit from more educated people in the workforce? Is less, more difficult to access higher education the solution to our current political and social problems?

I assume that people who are opposed to student debt relief are similarly opposed to last decade+ of tax cuts for rich people, which has done nothing but saddle future generations with debt while funneling cash upwards.

[summit]

Ok, so I can understand the reasoning behind the rest of it, but are you saying that society as a whole doesn’t benefit from more educated people in the workforce? Is less, more difficult to access higher education the solution to our current political and social problems?

Society has a net benefit from some education.

I argue that individual members of society do not benefit (or have a remarkably low ROI) from education associated with most extreme debt that needs to be relieved. People who fail out because they were never a good college candidate, your 120K of debt for your MA in Gender Justice degree, and other high cost private studies.

Further, simply realizing that there is a net general social benefit from some higher education does not mean that student debt relief is broadly justified nor the correct remedy to the fucked up system, particularly since student loan relief is typically proposed as carte blanche fixed amount debt relief which is both inequitable and reinforces perverse incentives.

Any consideration for relief needs to be comprehensive in addressing the underlying problems as well as being equitable and prosocial.

[char_]

Society has a net benefit from some education.

I argue that individual members of society do not benefit (or have a remarkably low ROI) from education associated with most extreme debt that needs to be relieved. People who fail out because they were never a good college candidate, your 120K of debt for your MA in Gender Justice degree, and other high cost private studies.

Further, simply realizing that there is a net general social benefit from some higher education does not mean that student debt relief is broadly justified nor the correct remedy to the fucked up system, particularly since student loan relief is typically proposed as carte blanche fixed amount debt relief which is both inequitable and reinforces perverse incentives.

Any consideration for relief needs to be comprehensive in addressing the underlying problems as well as being equitable and prosocial.

No disagreement here that the system needs reform.

I would argue that basically everyone is benefiting from teachers who have gone in to debt to meet teaching credential requirements, which in some states requires a masters degree. I suppose they could have chosen not to, but that isn’t good for society either.

[CovertM]

Take this Loan Forgiveness discussion nonsense to your own thread!

Lee, I know you lurk and tend to inverse WSB sentiments. What's your take on the GME situation? Do you even care?

I find it mildly amusing and a fun distraction from the boring investment landscape I operate in.

[summit]

No disagreement here that the system needs reform.

I would argue that basically everyone is benefiting from teachers who have gone in to debt to meet teaching credential requirements, which in some states requires a masters degree. I suppose they could have chosen not to, but that isn’t good for society either.

Has elementary school teaching measurably improved as a result of requiring a MEd? And if they choose to get it from a more expensive private?

That question aside, there are specific loan forgiveness programs for teachers, nurses, doctors, etc who work in areas of need. That is targeted and prosocial with the equitable nature being provided to the needed areas.

[LeeLau]

Take this Loan Forgiveness discussion nonsense to your own thread!

Lee, I know you lurk and tend to inverse WSB sentiments. What's your take on the GME situation? Do you even care?

I find it mildly amusing and a fun distraction from the boring investment landscape I operate in.

I'm very long GME with an avg of high 12s. But it's still in the yolo account and not transferred to my buy and hold portfolio.

Reasons

- EBIDTA positive
- low debt
- good expense control

It ticks the Ben Graham boxes although it lacks a dividend. Then add to that

- high IV. My average covered call return via monthlies has been 12% over the 3 months I've owned it. I nearly have free shares if this keeps up another 3 months. I also sell cash secured puts against it so that's a good part of the "wheel"

- Management has an old school bricks and mortar mentality but enough discipline to refuse share buy backs and other shenanigans when pressed to do so by activist hfs

- Chewy founder activism

Overall I can see a double within a year and would be happy with that.

I got burned by shorting QS prematurely at 80 and stopping out at 120 (I'm playing a PIPE unlock due in 15 to 30 days). GME's magnificent run stopped the bleeding and let me recover so I'm more than a little impressed by the strength of the believers

[Toadman]

Not sure why AAPL would want to get into car mfg? Seems like a completely crazy idea for a software/computer/phone mfg. to get into that biz. Yet, I see reports that they are looking into building an EV?

Any word yet if F is going to get into the smartphone and computer software biz yet?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/musk-...221034094.html

Mark Gurman
Tue, December 22, 2020, 2:46 PM PST
(Bloomberg) -- Apple Inc. Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook refused to take a meeting years ago to discuss acquiring Tesla Inc., Elon Musk said on Tuesday.

Tesla CEO Musk said in a tweet that he reached out to Apple during the “darkest days” of development of his company’s Model 3 to talk about a possible deal. Musk said he planned to discuss the possibility of selling Tesla to Apple for one-tenth of its current value, indicating a valuation of about $60 billion.

In 2017, Tesla burned cash as it ramped up output of its mass-market Model 3 electric vehicle. Musk told employees then at the company’s Fremont, California, plant that it faced a period of “production hell” for six months or longer. Weeks after making that statement, he tweeted about sleeping on the roof of a factory as he tried to resolve bottlenecks.

[BobMc]

Bob. Still have FCEL? I stopped out with a loss this reshort.

Nope, one of the few times I’ve sold. Sold it a couple weeks ago, took $75 on my 25 shares and ran. In retrospect... I’m still not convinced on the Hydrogen thing, it seems most all of these companies have been in business for years living off investor money. Fuel Cell has been in business for 50+ years and loses money. Now it seems the hype is that they’ll lose government grant money nowadays. Calls are greatly outnumbering the puts on it but I’m not going long in it quite yet.

I do have 1 share of PLUG and 1 share of BE, as I’ve said before I think Bloom will be making money before the rest of them. PLUG has deals with Amazon and Wal-Mart for forklifts but the deal centered around them getting artificially cheap shares in return, seems like more hocus pocus.

I’m going to have 10k to put in after Friday. I’ve been reading like crazy, I think I’m settled on the NEE and DCP, but I’m still looking. I may park it in my account for a week or two and see how things hash out on the 6th. Then again, usually when money hits my account the fomo starts up, gotta have it in something.

[billyk]

Sold everything last Wed and parked it in a cash account inside my IRA. Not sure if I won or missed out by doing that, but at least I haven’t lost anything. This market has me spooked.

[m2711c]

yep....

[BobMc]

The AAPL rumor was interesting today, I’d love to see them take market from TSLA. Keep NIO and the like out.

Anyone see Luckin is back? LKNYC now, already climbing. Gee, promise, we won’t cook the books again.

[VTeton]

No shit. Is there anything more entitlement than rooting for student loan forgiveness? I know many people that scrimped and saved to pay it off.

We paid off over 400k of student loans in under 10 years. You gonna rack that shit up, be prepared to pay it off.