Is the stock market going to tank?

[skaredshtles]

<snip> Or how about the opposite, suddenly there are places where ONLY driverless cars are allowed and you can't go if you're driving your own car. You're no longer allowed to drive your own car because the government has deemed it less safe. Isn't that where this is really headed if you take the whole "driverless is safer" thing to its logical conclusion?

In cities, I'd wager that's *exactly* where we'll head first. As with almost all progress, cities will lead the way.

[skaredshtles]

That you're right. Most drivers suck, and seem to be getting worse.

Not everything on trg is an argument.*


* only most things.

[Meathelmet]

Without autonomous LYFT will never be profitable. They can lose money for a long time but without ability to limit labor costs they will never make money.

I was told by someone in the business that before pure automation, one venue is the optimisation. Who, when, where.
The data handling, predictions and allocations matter more in the next few years.
Dont know how true that is atm, but the bet was who (and using what datasets & partners) might get a lead = Have an edge when half/full automation sets in.

[Benny Profane]

In cities, I'd wager that's *exactly* where we'll head first. As with almost all progress, cities will lead the way.

No, what these systems need are dedicated, fenced and guardrailed roads, so, new exurbias might work, as long as those people want to stay there and travel no where else. Won't work in cities, too many people. Hey, wait, how about underground or elevated trains in cities? That might work.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> Won't work in cities, too many people.

Heh.

[dunfree]

In cities, I'd wager that's *exactly* where we'll head first. As with almost all progress, cities will lead the way.

I think it's the opposite. Autonomous driving will takeoff first on major highways. Limited access/egress, far more consistent driving surface, roadways and vehicle speeds.

[iceman]

^^I'd say definitely. Way less variables to deal with.

[dunfree]

I was told by someone in the business that before pure automation, one venue is the optimisation. Who, when, where.
The data handling, predictions and allocations matter more in the next few years.
Dont know how true that is atm, but the bet was who (and using what datasets & partners) might get a lead = Have an edge when half/full automation sets in.

That might be true. How large is that advantage? How big is the provable advantage to inferred data vs. wisdom? WeWork likes to talk about all the analytics they do..... one of the examples they gave was they found out people like coffee going into the office in the morning so they hired another barista. No shit guys! Just like, I'm sure, they found that cutting back on free beer was NBD because 5% of the customers drank 95% of the beer. Did Target find a competitive advantage by being able to predict exactly when some of their female customers are wanting to get knocked up? This isn't anti-data, this is questioning what advantage does the data give you? Can you structure your barista woerkforce so you can add/subtract them in a provable, semi-sustainable pattern? Target knows their customer base is, roughly, women who will get knocked up or who have been knocked up or might not want to get knocked up, what advantage is conferred by differentiating between them? How do you pick & chose between the product mix of "want to find a mate" "found a mate" "formed a family" and "not interested in mate or family" & does more information lead to better longterm decisions for this?

[Meathelmet]

That might be true. How large is that advantage?

True to a certain extent. But the bigger question is the data handling, management & policy; the biggest advancements are made in that department.
There are shitload of data, the question how is that utilised. And it is here where some tangential individuals come to play. The talent might come from a small company that will turn out be a big player or it might come from some of the big players. Nevertheless. Things will change.

[jono]

What kinda pro-form are Uber and Lyft offering?

[schuss]

Data optimization through ML and AI means you can supercharge every function without an analytics team there full time.
Also, for stuff like bill audits or doc processing, you can easily pull 2-5% more efficiency, which if you have a billion in spend is 20-50 mil

[dunfree]

You are talking your book, no?

[schuss]

You are talking your book, no?

Just a personal example I've seen in my company. Some use cases aren't as solid, but for more routinized work if the data capture and pipeline is there you can make everyone perform like your best worker.

[Stu Gotz]

That might be true. How large is that advantage? How big is the provable advantage to inferred data vs. wisdom? WeWork likes to talk about all the analytics they do..... one of the examples they gave was they found out people like coffee going into the office in the morning so they hired another barista. No shit guys! Just like, I'm sure, they found that cutting back on free beer was NBD because 5% of the customers drank 95% of the beer. Did Target find a competitive advantage by being able to predict exactly when some of their female customers are wanting to get knocked up? This isn't anti-data, this is questioning what advantage does the data give you? Can you structure your barista woerkforce so you can add/subtract them in a provable, semi-sustainable pattern? Target knows their customer base is, roughly, women who will get knocked up or who have been knocked up or might not want to get knocked up, what advantage is conferred by differentiating between them? How do you pick & chose between the product mix of "want to find a mate" "found a mate" "formed a family" and "not interested in mate or family" & does more information lead to better longterm decisions for this?

The WeWork implosion is going to be ridiculous.

[shroom]

having data =\= having structured, clean, statistically significant data + the correct framework/environments to model and implement decisions that keeps up with your biz

data cleansing and ETL, etc are a much larger problem than dreaming up algorithms

[neufox47]

It's not labor cost. It's capital and labor because, after all, the driver is providing himself and the car. Uber's paying under the IRS mileage reimbursement rate, that should point out the labor component of the cost is pretty cheap already and they are still losing money.

Uber takes the fee and 25% of the fare. They lose money not because there is no margin on a fare it’s because they are spending like crazy on R&D, G&A, etc. If they leaned out the company there would be profit, but not nearly enough to support those valuations.

[Garbowski]

To me the barrier to entry on a jitney cab app is way too low. I'd love to see someone make one that is low overhead and profit sharing/owned by drivers or something, but then again the whole thing is really just a means to separate techlords from their money and burn it.

[schuss]

having data =\= having structured, clean, statistically significant data + the correct framework/environments to model and implement decisions that keeps up with your biz

data cleansing and ETL, etc are a much larger problem than dreaming up algorithms

Yep. Don't forget proper joining of various data sources.

[ncskier]

To me the barrier to entry on a jitney cab app is way too low. I'd love to see someone make one that is low overhead and profit sharing/owned by drivers or something, but then again the whole thing is really just a means to separate techlords from their money and burn it.

For all the champagne liberals believing in LYFT or Uber, all they're doing is propagating the myth of workers hustling for a buck without no corporate stewardship or responsibility to its workers. They don't pay benefits of any kind that I'm aware of, the maintenance, insurance and car costs are carried by the driver and at the end of the day, I'd argue most drivers are not making anything resembling a living wage. Sure there must be outliers, but like a good old fashioned mormon MLM, 95% of those who enter aren't making anything resembling a living wage. Aside from flexibility, at least working at Starbucks gets you benefits and a paycheck.
In a prior life in home building I saw it all the time with trades classified as "subcontractors" driving around in old crappy trucks while they worked on million dollar homes with public builders having 35-40% margins laughing all the way to the bank. If enough people were good at math, nobody would drive for them.

[muted]

For all the champagne liberals believing in LYFT or Uber, all they're doing is propagating the myth of workers hustling for a buck without no corporate stewardship or responsibility to its workers.

I don't think many libtards are under this illusion. Many switched to Lyft (as in all my friends. All of them) after the Uber scandals, and knowing Lyft paid drivers more. Now Lfyt doesn't pay more and all us libtards are thinking, " Well, now what? I don't want to go back to cabs." I have had so many sketchy, dangerous, and fucking rude drivers in the past few years, that's exactly why Uber and Lyft exist.

If cabbies got their shit together with friendly safe drivers and got rid of some of the older cars, they would do so much better in big cities. At least with older people they would. I don't feel sorry for them.

[sirbumpsalot]

Everytime I take an Uber/Lyft I chat with the driver and perhaps my limited experiences are different that yours, but every driver I have talked to does this as a "side job" to collect extra $$. I haven't met a full time driver that needs a "living wage". This applies to a couple I took in eastern Europe as well.

[glademaster]

I'm just here to add that I have yet to take an Uber/Lyft ride where the driver has not launched into a seriously racist or bigoted (anti gay) rant within 60 seconds of me getting into the car. I don't know if I give off a "sympathetic to bigots" vibe, or what, but it's happened a dozen or so times in multiple cities.

I've never felt as uncomfortable riding in a cab as I have during every single Uber/Lyft ride I've taken.

[Danno]

I'm just here to add that I have yet to take an Uber/Lyft ride where the driver has not launched into a seriously racist or bigoted (anti gay) rant within 60 seconds of me getting into the car. I don't know if I give off a "sympathetic to bigots" vibe, or what, but it's happened a dozen or so times in multiple cities.

I've never felt as uncomfortable riding in a cab as I have during every single Uber/Lyft ride I've taken.

You are either a massive statistical outlier or you dress like a skinhead, because I have never had that happen in the 15-20 Uber/Lyft rides I have taken. And have not heard that complaint from others.

[Ted Striker]

Yeah, seriously. wtf?

[Ted Striker]

with the proliferation of half-assed driver aids up to and including Tesla's "autopilot" is it a surprise? It's alot easier to drive distracted now because most of the time it doesn't matter; when you really have to pay attention you might not because you've been lulled, and then you might not remember what to do.

Automotive journalists have been saying that for decades, and they were not wrong.