Davenport=denied

[cj001f]

EXACTLY!!!!!!

Hey you guys how many ski flicks and photos do you think would get made if we went threw the proper channels, and paid for film permits?


Starting off $16K in the hole before you pay for film and all your other expenses, will prety much gaurentee that you will LOSE MONEY.

The ENITRE problem with this policey is that it was set in place for MAJOR productions, yet it blankets all productions....... doesnt make a lot of sence now does it?

so your position is it's ok to not go through proper channels and to break the law because otherwise you couldn't afford to do it?

[hairy]

so your position is it's ok to not go through proper channels and to break the law because otherwise you couldn't afford to do it?

the point is it's not against the law to film something....and if it becomes really good, you shouldn't have to be held hostage later....

[mtbakerskier]

A side thought to this point... wouldn't companies like Salomon, Smith, Dakine, etc. (his sponsors) pony up money for these types of expenses associated with a project like this?

Yeah right. Heck I would just be happy if they paid regular photo industry rates for ussing the images. Paying expenses upfront, that would be amazing!
Remeber where talking about the ski industry wich in its entirety is smaller than just one division of GE.

[huckasoreass]

so your position is it's ok to not go through proper channels and to break the law because otherwise you couldn't afford to do it?

So, are you saying you never speed? Ever roll through a stop sign? Did you drink any alcohol before you were 21? If you were at a red light in a deserted intersection in the middle of nowhere, and you haven't seen a car in an hour, and the light stays red for, say, five minutes, do you look both ways and proceed, or do you wait for the light to change because that's the law?

Hopefully you proceed because abiding by the law in that situation just doesn't make sense to you. Call that an analogy.

[Lone Star]

my impacts don't matter, i'm just one person

..............

[Lone Star]

Like ther isnt enough BLM land for this type of activity???

I regret to inform you that all BLM land has been set aside for oil and gas extraction.

[Telemarketeer]

DEAR RETARDS,

There are places on this earth that you should not be able to take a snowmobile, a film crew, and a heli. There are places that humans should only be able to get to if they put forth the effort to plan and hike to it. They should have to have the will,determination, courage, and foresight, to get themselves there, without machinery that will disturb the natural environment or encourage others to do so.

I'm not some tree huggun hippy or a member of the sierra club. but I hate to admit it but, I still have morals when it comes to this issue.I am all for the people's freedoms. We have so few left. But some things are better left un-touched.

[mtbakerskier]

DEAR RETARDS,

There are places on this earth that you should not be able to take a snowmobile, a film crew, and a heli. There are places that humans should only be able to get to if they put forth the effort to plan and hike to it. They should have to have the will,determination, courage, and foresight, to get themselves there, without machinery that will disturb the natural environment or encourage others to do so.
.

Well most of the time snowmobiles / helis etc are not used for filming beleave it or not, the cameraman/ photog ussually jsut carry the gear in on there back. Hows that different than you hiking in with your camra and taking a pic of your budy?

[sftc]

Yeah right. Heck I would just be happy if they paid regular photo industry rates for ussing the images. Paying expenses upfront, that would be amazing!
Remeber where talking about the ski industry wich in its entirety is smaller than just one division of GE.

Not buying that argument, I'd bet Davenport was fairly certain he could sell this story, if he completed it. People don't just tag along on missions like this just for shits and giggles. He was foolish not to use some of his pre-planning time and money to make sure that all of his ducks (permits) were in a row.

Expenses upfront = cash per diem: not that amazing.

[Telemarketeer]

If they made a major motion picture about how cool it is to ski mt baker ski area, (lbs) then a MILLION people showed up (from out of town) and trashed the joint, then they had to hire police to control the outcome($$$$$$), then it came out of your pocket, would you be happy? Even if you had nothing to do with it?

NO, you wouldn't be a happy camper.

This is a wilderness area. I wish I could ride my mt bike on the gore trail or co trail through lost creek wilderness but I can't. You know what I do instead? I hike 8 miles into the middle of the wilderness, camp a few days, climb a few routes that few have even seen, then hike out, the whole time not seeing a sole.. That it what it's all about sometimes.

[~mikey b]

anyone going to Dav's presentation in Golden tonight? We might...

Story from today's Aspen Times you might be interested in.

14er group stands behind ski challenge


Davenport is featured speaker at CFI fund-raiser



By Scott Condon
Aspen, CO Colorado
May 4, 2007

DENVER — A group trying to protect Colorado's mightiest peaks from the onslaught of human visits believes Aspenite Chris Davenport's successful mission to ski the state's fourteeners helped, rather than hurt, its cause.

The Colorado Fourteeners Initiative endorsed Davenport's effort to ski all 54 of the peaks higher than 14,000 feet within one year, said executive director T.J. Rapoport: "We think what Chris did is an amazing accomplishment."

Davenport will discuss his feat as keynote speaker Friday in Denver at the organization's biggest fundraiser of the year, Fiesta for the Peaks. CFI expects a full house.

The timing couldn't be better for a lively debate about the condition of the fourteeners and the effects humans have on them. A U.S. Forest Service decision this week prohibits the commercial release of a movie that shows footage of Davenport skiing high peaks within specially designated wilderness areas.

A permit was legally required for the filming within wilderness. Davenport and filmmaker Ben Galland didn't acquire a permit before shooting footage, so the film must be edited.

The White River National Forest supervisor's office ruled that the film about the "ski challenge" didn't promote wilderness values or ethics.

"In order to be beneficial to wilderness, a film must benefit wilderness values, including concepts such as solitude, untrammeled nature and the absence of urbanism," the supervisor's office said in a press release. "Additionally, the film poses the serious threat of attracting more individuals to undertake the same dangerous feat as Davenport, leading to increased use in certain wilderness areas."

About 34 of the 54 fourteeners are within wilderness on national forest.

Rapoport stressed that CFI is a partner of the Forest Service and that the organization isn't taking sides by enlisting Davenport as a speaker. CFI simply views Davenport's quest differently.

Davenport followed Leave No Trace principles, Rapoport said. He skinned up and skied down the mountains on snow. There was no risk creating a new social trail across the fragile high-altitude vegetation, as can happen with summer use, he said.

Davenport has also taken the opportunity to discuss the pressure the 54 fourteeners face from high use during summers: "Chris is drawing attention to a problem that needs attention," Rapoport said.

About 500,000 people visit the fourteeners annually, almost all of them during summers, according to CFI's website (www.14ers.org). The mountains are getting trammeled, Rapoport said.

CFI's core mission is to deal with the effects of that heavy use and try to educate people so that they minimize their impacts. The organization raises funds to undertake trail work and recruits summer crews.

A typical project is closing braided trails that are susceptible to erosion and create a designated, sustainable route. All the work is planned in cooperation with the Forest Service.

Rapoport said the publicity surrounding Davenport's accomplishment is bound to generate more winter use of the high peaks. The CFI staff already has anecdotal information about people Davenport inspired to ski the peaks themselves.

But the number of people in the world with the skills to undertake what Davenport did is small, Rapoport said. Winter use on the fourteeners will have "negligible impact" on the environment because the surface is covered by snow, he said.

CFI doesn't try to keep people off peaks. Instead, it tries to promote safe and environmentally sound use. In the case of wintertime use, the organization will urge adventurers to learn about avalanche danger and educate them about the skills and equipment necessary to visit the peaks.

Rapoport said Davenport's presentation at the fundraiser Friday will feature a slide show with still shots of his adventure. The film cannot be shown.

Davenport previously said he disagreed with the Forest Service's decision but will abide by it. He will edit the film and take out any scenes of him skiing within wilderness.

Rapoport said he doesn't consider the issue over Davenport's film a controversy. The Forest Service regularly reviews proposals and rejects some, he noted.

Rapoport acknowledged the debate has created a buzz among people interested in the fourteeners. CFI typically doesn't sell out all tickets to Fiesta for the Peaks, which takes place in a venue that holds about 350 people. This might be the year it sells out, Rapoport said.

Scott Condon's e-mail address is scondon@aspentimes.com.

and since I work for the FS, and have done a lot of film permits in the past - including for TGR, I'd be remiss if I didn't provide you guys with some links with info about filming on public land.

http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/permits/film.htm

http://www.fs.fed.us/r10/chugach/lands/filming_faq.html

[hairy]

anyone going to Dav's presentation in Golden tonight? We might...
and since I work for the FS, and have done a lot of film permits in the past - including for TGR, I'd be remiss if I didn't provide you guys with some links with info about filming on public land.

http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/permits/film.htm

http://www.fs.fed.us/r10/chugach/lands/filming_faq.html

from your link
Use of motion picture, videotaping, sound-recording, or any other type of moving image or audio recording equipment on National Forest System (NFS) lands that involves the advertisement of a product or service, the creation of a product for sale, or the use of actors, models, sets, or props. This does not include broadcasting breaking news.

IMHO, skiing mid-winter 14'rs is still breaking news....but if you are, let's say, promoting Clif Bar of something, then it is a commercial use of the wild lands and america should be paid fees in accordance with the new use fee agenda....but a ski film, where the focus is on the spirit of adventure....c'mon, that is what wilderness is for, anything done in the wilderness is worth of a film in my book....but what do I know....

[mtbakerskier]

Not buying that argument, I'd bet Davenport was fairly certain he could sell this story, if he completed it. People don't just tag along on missions like this just for shits and giggles. He was foolish not to use some of his pre-planning time and money to make sure that all of his ducks (permits) were in a row.

Expenses upfront = cash per diem: not that amazing.

Welcome to the ski industry.... things dont work that way.

[sftc]

Welcome to the ski industry.... things dont work that way.

Thanks for the welcome, but I've lived and worked in the ski industry for almost 20 years.
Freelance photography is a different breed, since you guys usually have very small crews- just you and the athletes. But almost every film or video project I've worked on has at least made an attempt to get the proper permits, if they are shooting outside of a ski resort's permited area, and/or if they are shooting on public land.
On a large production too much money is being spent to risk being shut down because you don't have the proper permits. People run and gun all the time and shoot without the proper permits, but odds are that eventually you'll run into some Forest Service prick with an ax to grind and he'll shut you down quick. Then you are stuck spending thousands a day on crew and equipment just because no one bothered to get the proper permits.
Dav's situation is a little different, but again, if they knew they planned to do a commercial promotional tour they should have covered their asses and at least attempted to do things correctly from the start.
I guess the question is if you were being paid by a client do a major, high profile shoot on Forest Service land would you spend a few hours getting the proper permits or would you just wing it and risk getting shut down?

[danimal's dead]

Hairy, sftc, and CJ, I wanna party with you guys, really, but first you have to take the stick out of your collective ass.

I don't think Dav ever envisioned this thing getting as big as it did.

As far as being a commercial venture, I'd be surprised if he ever makes back what he spent on gas and food.

I can't believe how hard you guys would fight against a fellow skier, unbelievable.

Sell outs, all of you.

[Tippster]

Who the fuck is fighting against it? Maybe this discussion is to keep the next person, who might be a maggot or lurker, from making the same mistake!

I WANT to see his film. I WANT the NFS to retroactively give him a permit, although that looks unlikely.

I also want you guys to understand that there is a process that must be followed to make movies like this, otherwise you too could be screwed like Dav. Just because there's a (somewhat) compelling reason why the rule should be ignored in certain cases doesn't mean that a Government agency can do that! How would you like it if say the CHiPs decided that all Ferrari Drivers could drive as fast as they want, but everyone else still has to pay speeding fines?

[hairy]

Hairy, sftc, and CJ, I wanna party with you guys, really, but first you have to take the stick out of your collective ass.

I don't think Dav ever envisioned this thing getting as big as it did.

As far as being a commercial venture, I'd be surprised if he ever makes back what he spent on gas and food.

I can't believe how hard you guys would fight against a fellow skier, unbelievable.

Sell outs, all of you.

jong....my first jong....read and retain more and you will edit that post

[sftc]

I don't think Dav ever envisioned this thing getting as big as it did.

As far as being a commercial venture, I'd be surprised if he ever makes back what he spent on gas and food.

I can't believe how hard you guys would fight against a fellow skier, unbelievable.

Sell outs, all of you.

You obviously don't know Davenport- nice guy but he's all about the self promotion. I doubt he thought he was going to make a ton of $$ on this, but he also didn't just wake up one morning and start skiing 14'ers. The whole thing was created and planned with sponsorship deals in mind.
I'm not hating on Dav, I just think it's interesting that everyone is ragging on the Forest Service for following a fairly well know policy regarding film permits.
I doubt most of the Forest Service people are getting any joy out of this, they are just applying their policies. The whole thing has become too high profile for them to ignore it or let it slide at this point.
And how did it become so high profile with a website and newpaper stories all over the place? Ask Davenport.

[P_McPoser]

I agree with CJ on this. If you're profitting from using public resources, some of that profit should be going back into it. Yes, even with mining. One of these days people will get it--you should see what the natural resource industry makes off of your lands.

[Spats]

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I hope Marmot gets a big fat belly laugh out of this.

[mtbakerskier]

If they made a major motion picture about how cool it is to ski mt baker ski area, (lbs) then a MILLION people showed up (from out of town) and trashed the joint, then they had to hire police to control the outcome($$$$$$), then it came out of your pocket, would you be happy? Even if you had nothing to do with it?
.

Actually that has already happend. TWICE. Ever hear of "Call of the Wild" how about "The Barrier"

MSP filmed a large portion of "Ski Movie" here and every ski / snowboard production company films a portion of there flick here EVERY YEAR. It has yet to create a drastic increase in visits.


Think about it no matter how MORE famous the 14ners become, they still have a PHYSICAL barrier that will ALWAYS keep the user visits from becoming to high.