Davenport=denied

[mtbakerskier]

[QUOTE=hairy;1257406]http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/lewisclark/l...guidelines.pdf
It just so happens this is my area of expertise and the request caused evaluation which in turn negated the ability to do it without a permit...as soon as you ask, you need a permit....no ask, no tell, no problems
QUOTE]

Now, is it just me, or does that just go to show how fucked this system is?

[Telemarketeer]

mtbakerskier, It leaves a lasting impact on the WILDERNESS area because it promotes heavier usage in these areas where they are trying to reduce human impact. This is a wilderness area where you aren't even allowed to use a mountain bike or, in some cases climbing pro.

They don't want him saying "look what I can do! Come on out and try it yourself" to everyone and their brother because it will increase their workload and expenses and impact on wilderness areas.

[powder11]

[QUOTE=mtbakerskier;1258421]

... to pay the rangers who work there. QUOTE]

BULL SHIT. Not a SINGLE cent of that film permit money goes to paying a single ranger.

your original question asked about fees to visit parks not film permit $. get it straight and fuckin chill man. some national parks charge and some dont. places like arches charge because of the high volume of use rolling through there.

[mtbakerskier]

mtbakerskier, It leaves a lasting impact on the WILDERNESS area because it promotes heavier usage in these areas where they are trying to reduce human impact. This is a wilderness area where you aren't even allowed to use a mountain bike or, in some cases climbing pro.

They don't want him saying "look what I can do! Come on out and try it yourself" to everyone and their brother because it will increase their workload and expenses and impact on wilderness areas.

Do you really think that Yosemite would have been protected if it wasnt for Ansil Adams photos?

Here is what the forest service thinks: (from there film permit criteria)

"The Forest Service encourages inclusion of environmental messages and depiction of
sound resource natural management practices in connection with filming on NFS land. If
requested by the Proponent, the Forest Service will assist the Proponent in incorporating
such messages and practices in a manner consistent with the production, applicable law,
regulation and policy."

[mtbakerskier]

[QUOTE=powder11;1258442]

your original question asked about fees to visit parks not film permit $. get it straight and fuckin chill man. some national parks charge and some dont. places like arches charge because of the high volume of use rolling through there.

Well they still cost less to maintain than the National monuments in DC, yet they are free.....

[Telemarketeer]

Last time cause I gotta go.

IT"S A FUCKING WILDERNESS AREA. We shouldn't even be there at all according to some people. It's not a Natl park, those they want you to go to and experience nature and all that "walden pond" shit.

YOSEMITE IS NOT A WILDERNESS AREA IT HAS A FUCKING HWY RUNNING THROUGH IT!

[cj001f]

Do you really think that Yosemite would have been protected if it wasnt for Ansil Adams photos?

Yes, because it was protected before he took the photos.

[Telemarketeer]

Mtbakerskier, We are going to have to charge you $150 for every picture you have with either Mt Baker or Shuksan in the background. You owe me millions!

[Meadow Skipper]

Settle down a little mbs, and think about the (considerable) impacts that a full-on commercial film crew could have setting up and shooting in a wilderness - the FS is right to be on guard against those sort of effects. I think Dav got caught up in two things - a bureaucratic broad-brush approach to any filming in the wilderness, and the inevitable bureaucratic irritation with people applying for permits for something after they've done it.

IMO the FS should have cut a little slack on this one, but if Dav had applied for the permit beforehand, I bet this wouldn't have happened.

[mtbakerskier]

Mtbakerskier, We are going to have to charge you $150 for every picture you have with either Mt Baker or Shuksan in the background. You owe me millions!

Fine, Im not goin to take another fucking pic. Im not making any money doing it, you obviously think i should have to pay to make pics that get people stoked to ski, so then, fuck it, im over it no more ski pics.

[Lone Star]

ULLRismyco-pilot, you're making too much sense. Just like the typical American public, most of the people posting in this thread have a hard time understanding cause and effect as far as impacts on Wilderness goes. if I take a picture or video of wilderness as an amateur, my audience, at most, is the readers of TGR.

a commercial endeavour usually implies a greater audience. ie a TGR film, or Powder magazine. the amount of people who could look at it and say "hey, I want to go there" and then break every LNT ethic is much greater.

goldenboy, you brought up an interesting point. You're saying that since there's snow on those peaks, nobody will be interested in backpacking there in the summertime?

it's not about the impacts of a film crew. it's the impacts that result because of the popularity of an area that film can create.

mtbakerskier, I'm looking forward to seeing your shots of skiers, without any scenic background, since the setting isn't important. I hear there's some super sick lines coming off the summit of the Smithsonian.

[mtbakerskier]

mtbakerskier, I'm looking forward to seeing your shots of skiers, without any scenic background, since the setting isn't important. I hear there's some super sick lines coming off the summit of the Smithsonian.

Too late, I jsut threw EVERY PIC in the garbage.

I guess I could have donated them, and then, I wouldnt have to pay a permit, but if I cant at least cover my costs, than It just isnt worth it for me to PAY $$$$$ per day just to get people stoked on skiing, and the outdoors.....

[Trackhead]

More hypocrisy on our strict wilderness standard.

[mtbakerskier]

Oh, btw, where the heck, is my check for the forest service's miss management allowing the pine beatle to devistate the forests of the west?

[cj001f]

Fine, Im not goin to take another fucking pic. Im not making any money doing it, you obviously think i should have to pay to make pics that get people stoked to ski, so then, fuck it, im over it no more ski pics.

Yes if you profit from the use of someone else's property you should pay.

Just like someone else should pay if they profit or even if they don't profit from the use of your property. I'm sorry paying other people for what's theirs is such a hurt to your bottom line. Like many other things this about control of property. Just because it belongs to all doesn't mean anyone can do what they will with it.

[Trackhead]

From the epa..............

Paragraph 3 provides authority for the Regional Forester to permit
the use of aircraft, motorized equipment and mechanical transport, and
pesticides in wilderness areas under certain conditions.

To what, kill skiers?

[cj001f]

oh look - someone keeps trucking in a bunch of Herring

[Trackhead]

oh look - someone keeps trucking in a bunch of Herring

Yup. Just trying to set the tone for land management.

Hey, I agree with filming permits, but they can exclude quite a few small time operations from having adequate funds to proceed with their projects.

Do you have any idea what they can/do cost? Do a search. They can be up to $150/day of filming. Some require a monitor, at the tune of up to $150/day. That would crush the budget of most small time operations.

[ptavv]

Beg forgiveness, not permission.

Seems like it would have served Dav well.

[Trackhead]

Beg forgiveness, not permission.

Seems like it would have served Dav well.

Not likely.

Several FS and Park sites changed their permit pages to state specifically that.

Ask for permission, forgiveness is not an option. They (several sites) made these changes last December. I saw them happen.

[cj001f]

Yup. Just trying to set the tone for land management.

Hey, I agree with filming permits, but they can exclude quite a few small time operations from having adequate funds to proceed with their projects.

Do you have any idea what they can/do cost? Do a search. They can be up to $150/day of filming. Some require a monitor, at the tune of up to $150/day. That would crush the budget of most small time operations.

Heh. What else should we expect from BLM/FS?

Yeah, permits can be expensive. yeah, they can be a pain. It's not just the US - I've paid entrance fees for my camera in numerous foreign destinations. One I know charges $300 for a noncommercial video camera.

I prefer that stupidity to the opposite where commercial use is unrestricted. Just imagine the guy operating his photostudio with a live Delicate Arch backdrop everyday of the year.

[sledneckripper]

Are you nerds done arguing yet?

[mtbakerskier]

So how come writers that go on trips in the wilderness then write about it don't have to pay for permits?????

They bring just as much exposure to the area as a photographer for a filmer, and have just as big of an impact as well.......???????

Come on CJ ??? Why????

[danimal's dead]

Permits are just another way to keep uss off OUR public lands.

Ski free or die.

[mtbakerskier]

Heh. What else should we expect from BLM/FS?


I prefer that stupidity to the opposite where commercial use is unrestricted. Just imagine the guy operating his photostudio with a live Delicate Arch backdrop everyday of the year.

If you had half a clue about ski filming or shooting ski photos, than maybe you would realise these permits where created for large scale hollywood shoots. Ski shoots are ussually at the most 1-2 cameraman, and MAYBE a photographer or two, hardly a crew big enough to leave a trace, and prevent others from ussing the area. In fact when shooting, your not skiing as much as a regular group so it could be argued that you have even less of an impact than a normal user. All this permit shit is is a bunch of buerocratice bull shit and is double taxation at its finest.

BTW I threw all of my pics away, so did you throw every ski magazine and video that you owen away, since none of them paid for permits for every shoot in the wilderness?