Advice for Backpacking in Tibet?

**enzo3366** · 04-26-2007, 08:16 AM

So, after my internship in Beijing this summer and before school starts, I want to plan a trip to Tibet. I have two and a half weeks for this, and I hopefully want to be trekking/backpacking for 3-5 days. I was wondering if any mags have done this before and can offer some advice? safety/logistics/cost? I will be going mid September.

**Vihren** · 04-26-2007, 08:37 AM

try lonely planet' s forums , there are people who backpacked to every corner of the planet there..

**dn4989** · 04-26-2007, 08:53 AM

One thing you'll need -AK47 or a ample supply of opium.

**yentna** · 04-26-2007, 09:32 AM

It's hard to get into Tibet on your own - you usually have to sign up with a "tour group", minimum of 5 people, to get the visa. At least, from within China that's been the case, though I haven't been back in a couple years so it may have changed.

I was living in China and tried to go to Tibet to visit a friend, but was traveling with some Chinese friends rather than foreigners, and the gov't wouldn't let me in. Sigh, that sucked. Especially since I was on my own and didn't have four other foreigners I could make a "tour group" with, last minute.

There are a lot of tour companies that can hook you up with a group, then you disband when you get there. Just a heads up.

**cj001f** · 04-26-2007, 09:34 AM

2nd hand I've heard the hardest part of going independently is transportation - ie it's difficult to get if you aren't on an approved tour. If you have your own wheels, like a bike, it's much easier. 2.5 weeks isn't much time - the logistics of getting to a trek can take up a day or two each side.

**Daywalker** · 04-26-2007, 09:40 AM

What yentna said. I'll be over there this summer too and was considering trying to get into Tibet. The bottom line seems to be (and someone correct me with some good info if they can) that the only reliable way is through a "tour group". Basically, you pay a couple hundred bucks to get the correct permit and go across the border. Once across, no one really cares and you're free to do what you want. Some people have avoided getting the permit and hitched, but it costs just as much to bribe someone to ferry you across because there are serious penalties for being caught bringing a foreigner over. Also, you'll be promptly booted out if not worse. With bribing someone to take you across, you also run the risk of being dropped on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere minus your money and bags.

I'm still investigating the whole thing, but unless I find some great info about a secret tunnel or parachute drop of something, I'll probably be making the decision to join one of the fake tour groups or just skip Tibet. There are some really cool minority regions that you don't have to pay out the ass to get into.

Keep in mind when sneaking over, this isn't the Mexican-U.S. border. First, the major towns are really far apart, making a walking type thing pretty frickin hard. Second, I trust the Chinese border guards a whole lot less than 'Mericans.

**Black Market** · 04-26-2007, 09:48 AM

If you want to trek go to nepal. Trying to get a solo visa for tibet is next to impossible unless you are with a tour group. Even if you did get one you might still have trouble with the chinese military at checkpoints who are notoriously huge dicks. Plus there is next to no infrastructure in tibet if you were to run into trouble mid trek, the distances and terrain in tibet between tiny outposts of "civilization are vast." The chinese government runs the tourism in tibet thus they want you to pay them and use their guides. A guided tour is the best way to see lhasa and the surrounding areas without to much hassle, plus most of the guides are tibetan and pretty cool and they drive you around in some old 80's land cruisers.

**dn4989** · 04-26-2007, 10:03 AM

I was planning on doing a Nepal trip.
THe best way to do it is to have an inside to the Parliment of Nepal and have them escort you around like Royalty. Guarded Humvee caravans....1 week spent living it up in Kathmandu, the rest of the journey traveling on holiday..... I think I need to make that happen somehow, not sure how, but somehow

**cj001f** · 04-26-2007, 10:05 AM

i don't think having them treat you like royalty is a good thing in Nepal right now

**comish** · 04-26-2007, 10:29 AM

Getting into Tibet wasn't an issue for Mrs. Comish and I. I'm pretty sure you have seen this TR: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ighlight=tibet but I think Mrs. Comish gave a pretty good description of getting into Tibet. You do have to go with a "tour group" but basically all that is a group to buy the tickets into Tibet and get you on the plane. Once in Tibet you are completely 100% on your own from the original tour group.

Your next problem is traveling through Tibet. Unless you have all kinds of coin you need to find some partners in crime to rent a Land Cruiser and driver. They will not let foreigners rent the cruisers or drive, and frankly I don't think we would have wanted to either. To get from Lhasa to Everest was 3 full days of 4x4 driving on this crazy pseudo road at altitude through the dust. Very tiring and pretty tough driving due to the rivers, debris, and landslides that tend to make the highway more into a brutal 4x4 adventure.

We met a couple on the plane that we partnered with as the land cruiser will seat 4 fairly comfortably with gear. There are tons of tourists cruising through Lhasa so its totally viable to go there and then meet people to travel with once in Lhasa. We spent 3 days in Lhasa and 3 days getting to Everest and frankly if you do it much quicker it would be really tough altitude wise. The swedish guy we traveled with woke up at Everest base camp puking from the altitude and had to go back down first thing in the morning. He had already been to around 18 or 19k feet in Bolivia before with no issues so he was definitely not expecting the effects of the altitude to effect him. That gives you a few days to meet people to travel with, make the arrangements which take time (driver, check out the Land Cruiser, permit, rent gear) and see the sites of Lhasa.

The hike we did which is on the E. side of Everest was pretty freakin cool. Totally safe in our opinion, aside from the sketchy nature of getting there on these dirt trails with many hundred foot tall cliffs falling away into the abyss while in the Land Cruiser. The locals will point, laugh, and definitely make you feel uncomfortable. Their favorite sign was the universal "fucking sign" of the finger in a hole which they constantly showed Mrs. Comish and I while giggling uncontrolably. They were fascinated with our gear and we were a little worried they might "borrow" some of it or go for the 5 finger discount, but in the end we were fine. It was crazy though. Our land rover driver had never been to this valley. The various tour shops in Lhasa where you arrange the permits and the land cruiser didn't know much about this valley, but it was pretty damn cool. By the way, hiking at > 15,000 feet is freakin brutal.

So, go to Chengdu or the other major Chinese jumping point for Tibet (can't remember the name of the town) and find a tour group you feel sorta remotely comfortable with, and go! You will hand over this large wad of cash to the tour group and they just say, we will pick you up at 6am. Totally sketchy, but it worked.

Have fun, its an amazing, tiring, brutal place, but totally beautiful. Be prepared to roll with the punches because there will be many...

**comish** · 04-26-2007, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Black Market

If you want to trek go to nepal. Trying to get a solo visa for tibet is next to impossible unless you are with a tour group. Even if you did get one you might still have trouble with the chinese military at checkpoints who are notoriously huge dicks. Plus there is next to no infrastructure in tibet if you were to run into trouble mid trek, the distances and terrain in tibet between tiny outposts of "civilization are vast." The chinese government runs the tourism in tibet thus they want you to pay them and use their guides. A guided tour is the best way to see lhasa and the surrounding areas without to much hassle, plus most of the guides are tibetan and pretty cool and they drive you around in some old 80's land cruisers.

This is all mostly true. The one thing was, when we were actually backpacking we did not have a guide nor were we required to have one. We didn't really come across too many chinese military checkpoints that I can remember, but at the same time, its impossible to rent a vehicle yourself. There are a couple, but with the driver they weren't an issue. I guess our driver was our guide, but he was solely for driving, nothing else. Once we left the vehicle at Everest base camp for a few days and on the E. side of Everest we left him with the vehicle. They will try to get you to take a hiking guide, but if you have a map, compass, and the proper knowledge and gear, you don't need one in my opinion. But, ya gotta be totally self sufficient.

Black Market is right in that there is absolutely no infrastructure. ZERO. Bring a SOLID first aid kit and book, because there is no DR. anywhere you would trust, nor any supplies, evac equipment, etc. Life flight doesn't just fly over and take you to the nearest hospital. That nearest hospital if I remember correctly was considered in Bangkok or Hong Kong...

**Neon** · 04-26-2007, 10:36 AM

Don't try to get intimate with a yak...

**summit** · 04-26-2007, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by cj001f

i don't think having them treat you like royalty is a good thing in Nepal right now

hehehehe

**dn4989** · 04-26-2007, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by cj001f

i don't think having them treat you like royalty is a good thing in Nepal right now

Exactly...you see why I have my concerns about going???? Mrs. DN4989 thinks we will be o.k.

My thinking is this:
#1 O.K. the hook up is there
#2 We can go anytime after political turmoil is over.
#3 I would like to spend more time in the country, less time Kathmandu....

**enzo3366** · 04-26-2007, 11:08 AM

i wonder if the cultural hertitage protection organization I am working for can help me out in getting an entry visa. If possible, I am thinking of taking the new train from Beijing. Otherwise, I have faith in my skills to somehow get in...I do have an expired Chinese passport from eight years ago.

also, comish, just an estimate, how much total did the trip cost for you and the mrs? i am kinda curious by what you meant from "large wad of cash"...

**Black Market** · 04-26-2007, 11:16 AM

It cost me 1000$ USD in 2000 to go overland from kathmandu to lhasa over like 10 days including accomodation, food, and airfare back to kathmandu. That was when the dollar was strong so its probably a bit more now, maybe cheaper from beijing.

**Flash** · 04-26-2007, 12:05 PM

What Comish said.

My wife and I were in Tibet two years ago. There is a "tour group" requirement to get in, but that is really a misnomer. We bought our "permits" and plane tickets to Lhasa while we were in Chengdu. We were not part of any group - it was just us. The "travel agent" arranged everything, and told us to be in the hotel lobby at 5 a.m. the next day. There, we met our driver. When we walked out to the car, there were two other guys we had never met - the four of us constituted the "tour group." The driver drove us to the airport, walked us into the terminal, made sure we were in the right line, and then - for the first time - handed us our plane tix and the so-called permit. After that, it was just like any other airline flight.

We were in Tibet for three weeks. We spent a week in and around Lhasa. While there, we scanned the message boards at the guesthouses for folks wanting to drive to Kathmandu. We soon found an awesome group of folks, and we collectively hired two land cruisers, two drivers, and a guide. We scheduled the trip the way we wanted within the limitations imposed by the Chinese government. We spent the next two weeks making our way over the Friendship Highway to Nepal, including three days trekking to Everest Base Camp. As Comish mentioned, you can't rent a vehicle and drive it yourself - you need the driver. We encountered half a dozen military checkpoints during our jouney, and were required to stop at every one.

We met people who had skipped the driver and guide requirement, and were hitchhiking through Tibet. It is possible, but we felt it was worth the $$ for the drivers. Tibetans are reluctant to pick up foreigners, as they face serious penalties for doing so. As a result, hitchers often have to wait a very long time in very remote places to get a ride. When hitchhikers approach checkpoints, they are let off in advance, and they have to sneak around the checkpoint and try to find another ride on the other side. I don't know what the ramifications are for getting caught, but to us, it didn't seem worth the risk.

The biggest expense with Tibet was the cost of getting there. The permit and plane tickets we bought in Chengdu were expensive. Once inside Tibet, everything is pretty cheap. The car/driver/guide hire would be pricey if you were doing it solo, but if you find a group you can negotiate it down to a pretty reasonable price.

Tibet and Nepal couldn't be more different. Tibet is high, dry, and barren, whereas most of Nepal is much lower, and more lush. There is better food and nicer accommodations in Nepal. That said, Tibet is one of my favorite places on earth. I can't recommend it highly enough. Yes, there are some barriers that make it more difficult, but once you are there it is a place like no other.

If you are considering going, go soon. China really is destroying Tibet. It won't be long before Tibetan culture is pretty much extinguished.

**Steven S. Dallas** · 04-26-2007, 12:06 PM

Bring lots of yeti repellent.

**extreeski** · 04-26-2007, 12:24 PM

I say Boycott China's version of Tibet. It ain't the same and its a travesty. I really think its ironic that Americans can tourist around tibet while real tibetans are in concentration camps and being murdered and tortured daily.

**enzo3366** · 04-26-2007, 12:32 PM

comish and flash, how did you find lodging in Lhasa? did you find somewhere ahead of time or just wing it and find a place to stay once in the city? I am guessing that September isn't a very busy time for tourists.

I am also wondering how much yuan you had to pay for these drivers and plane tickets. I am doing a second job teaching SATs on the weekends. I am hoping the 10,000 yuan I am getting from that will cover my trip.

As much as I want to see Kathmandu, I wont be going to Nepal, cause my visa right now is for single entry. Hopefully by september, I can find a buddy to come with. any mags want to join up?

**enzo3366** · 04-26-2007, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by extreeski

I say Boycott China's version of Tibet. It ain't the same and its a travesty. I really think its ironic that Americans can tourist around tibet while real tibetans are in concentration camps and being murdered and tortured daily.

yeah, but the landscape is par none. I am actually doing work for a cultural preservation non-profit agency in Beijing this summer, Tibet is definitly on the list.

**comish** · 04-26-2007, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by enzo3366

comish and flash, how did you find lodging in Lhasa? did you find somewhere ahead of time or just wing it and find a place to stay once in the city? I am guessing that September isn't a very busy time for tourists.

I am also wondering how much yuan you had to pay for these drivers and plane tickets. I am doing a second job teaching SATs on the weekends. I am hoping the 10,000 yuan I am getting from that will cover my trip.

As much as I want to see Kathmandu, I wont be going to Nepal, cause my visa right now is for single entry. Hopefully by september, I can find a buddy to come with. any mags want to join up?

Don't remember off hand how much anything was. I can see if we have it in a journal or something. I'm thinking a few hundred US$ for the Jeep / driver? Lodging in Lhasa is easy. We just rocked up like any backpackers and checked out a few places. Actually maybe we made a reservation for one or two nights previously, but its not a big deal. Just like backpacking anywhere in the world.

**comish** · 04-26-2007, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by extreeski

I say Boycott China's version of Tibet. It ain't the same and its a travesty. I really think its ironic that Americans can tourist around tibet while real tibetans are in concentration camps and being murdered and tortured daily.

I don't disagree that China has completely and uterly destroyed Tibet. Its a real shame and its just getting worse. No arguement from me there. If you read my TR you see I agree with that.

Does that mean we shouldn't travel there, experience what is left of the culture, experience the Tibetan Himalaya, see the Chinese destruction for our own eyes, we can obviously debate this one for a while.

I would argue its a similar debate on Cuba (which we may have visited

as well) in many ways. The more people that go and see what has happened, maybe it will enlighten the world a bit? Maybe a bit naive, but what has happened has happened and we can't change the past only educate the world and ourselves so maybe we don't fuck up as badly in the future.

I would argue that Americans don't get out and experience the world, different cultures, ways of life, political, economic systems enough and therefore in many cases don't have the most educated perspective on the rest of the world. Traveling is one way to gain that perspective. I'm sure there are a few people that have been to Tibet, seen the destruction and suffering and therefore done some voluteer work or donated to a Tibetan organization. If we never left the US and checked it out for ourselves, there would be far less support (of an already minimal support) for their cause. Sometimes we have to get off our ivory tower to understand what is really going on.

Enzo, go, you will have an adventure of a lifetime. The Permit = easy, finding people to travel = easy, lodging in Lhasa = easy. Fending off rabid dogs while trying to take a shit in a hole where everyone already missed at midnight at 17,000 feet in the dark = hard. Feeling like arse from the food, elevation, dusty hard core 4x4 driving after 3 days = hard. Memories will last forever.

The Thorn Tree on lonely planet prolly has posts with updated costs for most things there.

Looking forward to the TR

**extreeski** · 04-26-2007, 12:52 PM

I appreciate your thoughtful reponse comish, but I don't see the connection between Cuba and Tibet. for one....our country doesn't have an embargo on china.

**haydukelives** · 04-26-2007, 04:33 PM

we spent 2 months hitchhiking with good results, but that was awhile ago. also met euros who brought mtn bikes and travelled all over and then into nepal. learn about diamox just in case, as altitude can affect even really healthy folks. consider ladahk... tibetan culture without the chinese destruction. bring stuff to give away to these most beautiful poor folks