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  1. #2626
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    372
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser View Post
    For the last 2 years I've been doing almost exclusively longer slower runs. Always trying to keep my heart rate in the sub 140 range. Yes, I'm slow as hell. But I'm never sore even after a 2+ hour run and I can go all freaking day in the mountains (unless I start running the downhills). It is humbling to run 10+ minute miles. But fuck it, ya know? I ain't racing anybody. I'm in it for the fitness and for the time on the trails and for the big ole battery that I can draw down on while I'm up in the hills.
    Sounds like you and I have similar goals. Have you seen big improvements over the last two years? Has your pace at that sub 140 range improved, or has your stamina improved? I've at just about 1 month of doing this and it certainly seems like my ability to keep running for longer and longer periods of time before my heart rate rises over the 143 threshold has improved quite a bit. As far as my actual average mile pace it doesn't seem to have improved that much. I've also noticed that I'm basically never sore afterward and usually stop running only because I've arrived at my destination. Since starting this I've never stopped because I'm tired.

  2. #2627
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    372
    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    My times are improving. A bit of investment in footwear is really helping my knees.

    altra timp 1.5s (nimble but still good cushion)
    hoka stinson ATRs (yudgely plush)
    I realize that shoes are highly individualized and what works for one person won't work at all for another but I have about 300 miles in a pair of Hoka Stinson ATR 4's and I think they're great. For the roads I was using a pair of Hoka Clifton 5's until I set them on the top of my car and proceeded to drive away. There's a lone Hoka Clifton on the streets of Seattle somewhere. I replaced them with the new Clifton 6 and they're even better than the 5.

    Since the Stinsons are getting close to retirement I'm starting to think about a trail shoe to replace them. There are so many choices. I'm curious about how the Altra Timp and Hoka Stinson compare. How do you choose which one you wear on any given day?

  3. #2628
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    5,129
    Quote Originally Posted by Buke View Post
    Since the Stinsons are getting close to retirement I'm starting to think about a trail shoe to replace them. There are so many choices. I'm curious about how the Altra Timp and Hoka Stinson compare. How do you choose which one you wear on any given day?
    Stinsons are maybe 30% or so more padding than the Timps - so Stinsons are noticeably more plush. A more direct comparison would probably be the Altra Olympus. Timps are a bit more direct in terms of feedback, favoring rough terrain as they're a little more stable, less elevated & still have enough cushion to manage scree fields. If I could only have one it would be the Hokas for the extra padding - especially on longer days. But the Timps are really good for trails with exposure or scrambling in the alpine.

  4. #2629
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Eastern Idaho
    Posts
    406
    Quote Originally Posted by Buke View Post
    Sounds like you and I have similar goals. Have you seen big improvements over the last two years? Has your pace at that sub 140 range improved, or has your stamina improved? I've at just about 1 month of doing this and it certainly seems like my ability to keep running for longer and longer periods of time before my heart rate rises over the 143 threshold has improved quite a bit. As far as my actual average mile pace it doesn't seem to have improved that much. I've also noticed that I'm basically never sore afterward and usually stop running only because I've arrived at my destination. Since starting this I've never stopped because I'm tired.
    I'm a slow runner too. I am more interested in getting out on the trails than speed and PRs. I'v never used the actual Maffetone method. A friend of mine was trying to follow it but she got really frustrated because she felt it was too slow and was having to walk a lot to keep her heart rate down. I looked in to it some after she talked about it - a little of what I read was some people were using the method, but modifying their heart rate zones some based on their fitness level for those same reasons.

    What I have noticed is my speed really hasn't changed but my endurance has improved. I can run longer and my legs may be tired, but not really sore. I'm only a little sore after a run that involves a lot of steep climbing. Steep uphills that I have to hike, while they are slow, are very steady for me now and I don't have to stop to rest. Last summer, I did notice for shorter runs, like local 5K runs, while I am no speed demon, I had gotten faster (for me).

    I'm super bummed this weekend - this was supposed to be my last long run before a 55K on July 13, I had to have a tooth extracted Wednesday and they told me no running until Sunday at the earliest. I hope I can squeeze in one more 20 - 25 mile run in the next few days before starting to taper off to rest up for the big day.

  5. #2630
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Fraggle Rock, CO
    Posts
    5,605
    @Buke
    Yeah, I've gotten a little faster since I started. Maybe a minute or so less per mile. But that's 11:30 down to 10:30 so it's not exactly like I'm lighting the trails up. That said, I'd like to think I could walk out the front door any day of the week and run for 2 hours no matter what I had done the day before. And when I get home from that kind of run I'd also like to think I wouldn't be too tired to have a normal rest of my day playing with the kids, working, other exercising, etc...

    From a purely philosophical perspective, I think that sincerely committing to that kind of slow and steady training means that you have to place much less value on pace and much more on total time and/or distance. And that's easy for me cuz I'm not racing anybody anywhere anytime. I just love getting out there and running.
    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
    Cletus: Duly noted.

  6. #2631
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    10,722
    From yesterday's RunDown. 9 miles, 4800 vert.

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  7. #2632
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    写道
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    Pretty spot, Butters!

    Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app
    °”rale, vato!

  8. #2633
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the swamp
    Posts
    6,525
    Trail run above Boulder. Wildflowers are going crazy.
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  9. #2634
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    6,098
    ^^^^ Betasso? That's a great one. Connecting that over to Walker Ranch via Eldorado Springs is about as good as it gets. So much different terrain in one run right on the edge of town.

  10. #2635
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the swamp
    Posts
    6,525

    Running, Anyone...?

    Not Betasso. South of Eldo Springs. Yeah, connecting to Walker is amazing.

  11. #2636
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    6,098
    Quote Originally Posted by The SnowShow View Post
    Not Betasso. South of Eldo Springs. Yeah, connecting to Walker is amazing.
    D'oh! I meant Goshawk Ridge. Nowhere near Betasso, or similar sounding, but I always switch those names.

  12. #2637
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the swamp
    Posts
    6,525

    Running, Anyone...?

    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    D'oh! I meant Goshawk Ridge. Nowhere near Betasso, or similar sounding, but I always switch those names.
    Goshawk is one ridiculously perfect singletrack. Doesnít get better.

  13. #2638
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    Oct 2003
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    Awesome! Usually, June is my favorite time to run, but late, and deep, snow is pushing it into July this year.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app
    °”rale, vato!

  14. #2639
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
    Posts
    11,847
    "PITTSBURGH — Charles Allie is 71 years old, and he is fast.
    Chances are, he is a much faster runner than you are — faster, in fact, than you ever were. Last year in Spain he broke his own world record in his age group for the 400 meters by more than a second. That is essentially a quarter-mile, one lap around a standard running track. He crossed the tape in 57.26 seconds.
    Plenty of people, even when they are at their fastest, never come close to running 400 meters in less than a minute. Allie has been breaking one minute since he was a child. Now, he beats his competitors — the other fastest men in the world who are his age — by 30 or 40 meters."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/s...gtype=Homepage

  15. #2640
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    slc
    Posts
    10,722
    A sub-60 400m is a legit badass test for anyone of any age. At 70? Holy shitballs. Article says he runs a sub-13 100m, too. Respect.

  16. #2641
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
    Posts
    11,847
    I covered 6mi this morning for the first time in a long time. It was 2:00 run/1:00 walk, but Iím pleased to be moving over that distance injury free. I think losing 10# could help me put more run into the run/walk ratio. Iím back on my half mary prep injury free for a few weeks. Still plenty of time to train before the event.

  17. #2642
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,056
    Strava ethics question for the collective. Where I live outside Seattle most trails are pretty steep (1000ft per mile) and I end up mostly fast hiking on the way up (20+ min miles) and then run down. Using my Garmin I usually select Hike from the menu and that's how it registers when I upload to Strava. As a result, I have KOMs on most of the trail descents around here. If I put them in as a Run, I may be top 10%, but probably not in the Top 10. Should I be putting these in as a run? I know it doesn't really matter, just wondering what others think.

  18. #2643
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Fraggle Rock, CO
    Posts
    5,605
    As soon as you start spraying out your kom runs on the interwebz then you have to change your settings.
    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
    Cletus: Duly noted.

  19. #2644
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    Oct 2003
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    slc
    Posts
    10,722
    Probably should put them in as runs, but I really doubt anyone who records their activities as hikes cares about the leader boards.

  20. #2645
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,056
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Probably should put them in as runs, but I really doubt anyone who records their activities as hikes cares about the leader boards.
    That's what I'm thinking. On many of them, there's a definite mix of runners and hikers where my time is very close to the existing KOM. What got me thinking about it was yesterday when my time down a 3mi descent beat the previous KOM by 20+ minutes.

  21. #2646
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bellevue
    Posts
    5,076
    Quote Originally Posted by phatty View Post
    That's what I'm thinking. On many of them, there's a definite mix of runners and hikers where my time is very close to the existing KOM. What got me thinking about it was yesterday when my time down a 3mi descent beat the previous KOM by 20+ minutes.
    What descent and time? Just curious, I've been doing after work hikes a bunch recently and vaguely tracking how long they take

  22. #2647
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,056
    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    What descent and time? Just curious, I've been doing after work hikes a bunch recently and vaguely tracking how long they take
    Dirty Harry's in 47min and Silver Peak out and back in 1:51 in the last couple weeks.

  23. #2648
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the swamp
    Posts
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    Trail run below the Maroon Bells and lots of avy debris everywhere
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  24. #2649
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatty View Post
    Dirty Harry's in 47min and Silver Peak out and back in 1:51 in the last couple weeks.
    That distance-vert-time is about where I am these days. Prefer to go slower though. Looking at All Trails the pass up there has a ton of options.

  25. #2650
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
    Posts
    21,333
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    A sub-60 400m is a legit badass test for anyone of any age. At 70? Holy shitballs. Article says he runs a sub-13 100m, too. Respect.
    Probably left the course to "find a bathroom"

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

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