Running, Anyone...?

[The SnowShow]

Had a fantastic run down la plata this morning! Attachment 336147

Gorgeous. Wish I could physically run down La Plata! Hiking it beat me up.

[nutmegchoi]

Run free they say.
A pair of cool trail running shoes will take you to places they say.
Even before I start running, rolled and there goes my ankle.
Couple miles done, fate of ankle unknown.

[Viva]

How the fuck did you roll an ankle before even running?!!! Were you drinking? Fuck, that sucks. Take care.

[nutmegchoi]

Cause I’m clumsy!!!
I trip over nothing so imagine me on a trail!!
Iced all night and ankle isn’t swollen but pain’s there.
Somehow that makes me nervous.

[EWG]

Good luck. That sucks heal up.

Most current thinking is not to ice. Ice slows down healing. Worth reading up about on the interwebs. Opinions are split, but I think I’m anti ice now. I think.

[cravenmorhead]

I have a shin question for you runners.

I've never been much of a runner, but I'm trying to get into it. Tried it last fall and got some shin pain that made me nervous enough about shin splints that I quit, not wanting to jeopardize a ski season.

Now it's summer again. I'm trying to start slow, with a couple 2.5 mile runs a week. Even with that, I'm feeling tension in/in front of my shins. Not pain exactly, but certainly tightness. If it matters, I have big 'ol football calves.

Is this a normal thing that foam rolling/massage can deal with, or is it the leading edge of shin splints and pain?

[Cruiser]

Again, everyone has different physiology. But there symptoms you're describing sound like overuse to me. Running really really slowly is hard, especially for newer runners. It's hard to have people fly by you on the trail. It's hard to compare your splits to runners on strava or here on the innertubez without feeling like you could/should be faster. But it sounds to me like your body is talking to you and, if you want to stick with this running thing, you better answer that call.

[smartyiak]

I've done my due diligence (webMD) and now I throw it to the dental collective:

I was running this a.m.; in the neighborhood of 8:15/mi which is about non-race pace for me (if that matters). It was not as warm as it has been, but very humid. Anyways, I started feeling a pain in my calf...right in the middle, running from knee to above ankle, and very deep. Like a tendon or something. It eventually froze my leg. I was able to walk home, but it is still sore...and my hamstring is now sore too. No swelling or bruising.

Any ideas? Any treatment (besides RICE)? How long am I out (or should I be resting for)?

[Mr. Mike]

I've done my due diligence (webMD) and now I throw it to the dental collective:

I was running this a.m.; in the neighborhood of 8:15/mi which is about non-race pace for me (if that matters). It was not as warm as it has been, but very humid. Anyways, I started feeling a pain in my calf...right in the middle, running from knee to above ankle, and very deep. Like a tendon or something. It eventually froze my leg. I was able to walk home, but it is still sore...and my hamstring is now sore too. No swelling or bruising.

Any ideas? Any treatment (besides RICE)? How long am I out (or should I be resting for)?

Tp massage calf roller. And don’t run for a few days. A strained calf can be a bitch that overstays. If you run and hits you walk home. Sucks but it’s worth it. Otherwise you might not be running for months.

[Buke]

Tp massage calf roller. And don’t run for a few days. A strained calf can be a bitch that overstays. If you run and hits you walk home. Sucks but it’s worth it. Otherwise you might not be running for months.

Yeah, it sounds a little like a strained calf to me too. That's something that I've dealt with in the past. Even worked with a good PT to get it fixed. It can definitely be a nagging problem. For me, I'd take a couple weeks off and then go for a slow shake out run only to have it flair back up again. Ultimately I worked on some foot strengthening exercises on the opposite side that my PT prescribed and I don't seem to have the calf issue anymore.

[Buke]

Since this is as much a gimp thread as a running thread (seems right for a running thread), I have a question for the group. I get pain in my foot about an inch behind my pinky toe on one foot. It's always worse after a long run. It's bad enough that I can't bear weight on it but it doesn't really get in the way of running or anything else as long as I'm cognisant to land on the ball/inside of my foot. About the time that I think I should go get it checked out the pain goes away, only to flair up after more exercise.

Part of the reason that i've hesitated to get it looked at is I'm afraid it's a stress fracture and the last thing that I want is to be stuck in a boot for a couple of months while it heals.

Anyone else have something similar?

[Cruiser]

Great run along the Platte this morning. Def starting to see some color in a few of the cottonwoods along the trail. Turn's coming...

[OldLarry]

Run free they say.
A pair of cool trail running shoes will take you to places they say.
Even before I start running, rolled and there goes my ankle.
Couple miles done, fate of ankle unknown.

What size are the shoes and how much do you want for them?

[AKbruin]

I took a different approach to running this year that focused on low-heart training along the lines of but not strictly adherent to Maffetone and/or Uphill Athlete and thought I'd report my results.

I don't have a long history of running, but I began running last summer and enjoyed it until I had a strange injury that sidelined me. I had thought that I was building my mileage and running sufficiently easily to make my trail running sustainable, but my injury indicated otherwise. I think I was still pushing deep into anarobic pacing anytime there was a climb, which is basically all of my trail runs.

So this year I tried the low-heart rate approach and reduced the carbs/sugar in my diet. In an effort to build up my aerobic base and because I was focused on long runs, I did almost no speed work and generally kept my heart rate under about 145 bpm. Because I live above 7,500' and there are very few flat trails here, this meant A LOT of walking uphill. After three or four months, here are the results:

(1) No injuries or nagging issues.

(2) I feel like I became fat-adapted pretty quickly. Going at a mellow pace, I was able to do 5-6 hour runs with no food or little food.

(3) I got faster running at a low heart rate but otherwise slightly slower at shorter tempo runs. I suspect, however, that I could get a lot faster if I did more speed work given my ample aerobic base.

(4) I lost 13 pounds.

(5) Once heat, altitude, techy trails, climbs, and cardiac drift are factored in, long “runs” involve a butt-load of walking. And not necessarily fast walking either. I still call it "trail running" but it could easily be called "hiking with opportune running."

(6) Sometimes I missed running fast and felt a little ego blow whenever a faster runner would pass me on a trail.

(7) I was able to do bigger and bigger days and weeks. I started at 20 miles/week and ended in the mid-60's. I ran a half dozen 20-30 mile runs, three 30-40 mile runs, and one 40+ mile run, all of which were on trails and involved significant vertical.

(8) Sometimes, especially early on, I would get frustrated with my own heart rate when it forced me to walk when I wanted to run.

(9) I ran with my kids (10 and 13) on shorter runs and even got them do to a 13.5 miler with me.

(10) I discovered the benefits of jumping into an alpine lake after or often during a long run.

(11) I refocused my goals. I stopped caring about how fast or far I ran and lost interest in doing any kind of races. Instead, I focused on running cool trails and routes. In this regard, I completed the 8 segments of the Tahoe Rim Trail and did some tremendously cool runs in other parts of the Sierra. I also realized that I could do multiday backpacking routes as day trips. This, I discovered, was my favorite part of trail running. I'd much rather run an epic trail slow than a boring trail fast.

So, all in all, I think the low-heart rate stuff worked well for me. It'll be interesting to see how it carries over to BC skiing.

Tahoe Trails:

[Dantheman]

Nice work!

[AKbruin]

The “Sky Marathon” near Bishop:












Ansel Adams Wilderness near Mammoth Lakes:




A big Yosemite loop:






Hoover Wilderness near Bridgeport:






Rae Lakes Loop in Kings Canyon National Park:

[Dantheman]

Fuck me, that's awesome. What are the stats on those routes?

I'm still recovering from a head injury last fall and have been keeping it pretty mellow. One trick I've been using to keep the pace/intensity down is to only nose breathe. Mouth stays closed unless I'm saying hello to someone.

[Buke]

I took a different approach to running this year that focused on low-heart training along the lines of but not strictly adherent to Maffetone and/or Uphill Athlete and thought I'd report my results.

I don't have a long history of running, but I began running last summer and enjoyed it until I had a strange injury that sidelined me. I had thought that I was building my mileage and running sufficiently easily to make my trail running sustainable, but my injury indicated otherwise. I think I was still pushing deep into anarobic pacing anytime there was a climb, which is basically all of my trail runs.

So this year I tried the low-heart rate approach and reduced the carbs/sugar in my diet. In an effort to build up my aerobic base and because I was focused on long runs, I did almost no speed work and generally kept my heart rate under about 145 bpm. Because I live above 7,500' and there are very few flat trails here, this meant A LOT of walking uphill. After three or four months, here are the results:

(1) No injuries or nagging issues.

...

(11) I refocused my goals. I stopped caring about how fast or far I ran and lost interest in doing any kind of races. Instead, I focused on running cool trails and routes. In this regard, I completed the 8 segments of the Tahoe Rim Trail and did some tremendously cool runs in other parts of the Sierra. I also realized that I could do multiday backpacking routes as day trips. This, I discovered, was my favorite part of trail running. I'd much rather run an epic trail slow than a boring trail fast.

So, all in all, I think the low-heart rate stuff worked well for me. It'll be interesting to see how it carries over to BC skiing.

That's awesome. I also switched to something like maffetone training for a while a couple years ago. I never got up to the mileage that you're doing but I experienced very similar outcomes. Basically, way fewer injuries, much longer mileages, and a lot more fun overall once I let go of any concerns about time.

These days I don't really pay attention to the heart rate monitor other than the occasional check in to make sure that it's not way out of whack. My HR is generally a few beats higher than what Maffetone or Uphill Athlete would expect but it's negligible and I find that I'm way more in tune with my actual exertion and able to regulate my pace based on exertion alone. All in all, running slower has been very good for me. I also agree that if I would fit some speed work into my training I would probably see some pretty big improvements but overall I just like running in the woods and find that worrying about speed just isn't that big of a deal.

[AKbruin]

Fuck me, that's awesome. What are the stats on those routes?

I'm still recovering from a head injury last fall and have been keeping it pretty mellow. One trick I've been using to keep the pace/intensity down is to only nose breathe. Mouth stays closed unless I'm saying hello to someone.

Sorry about the head injury. That sucks!

I've tried nose-breathing to control pace and found it to be uncomfortable, even when my heart rate is at moderate aerobic pace. (Am I a fucking mouth breather.)

Most TRT segments are mostly a little over 20-ish miles and usually 3,000-4,000' vert, although one is 32 miles and 5k.

Ansel Adams run was 22 miles and 3.8k.

The Sky Marathon was 25 miles and 4k.

Yosemite as 30 miles and 7.4k.

Hoover was 35 miles and 4.2k.

Rae Lakes was 42 miles and 7.6k vert.

Tahoe trails, with a few exceptions (e.g., Desolation Wilderness) are pretty damn runnable. The Eastern/High Sierra runs, on the other hand, are usually rocky as shit. For example, the trail in the rattler pic above. It's always a little disheartening when you think you're going to cruise the downhill portion of a run at a good pace only to discover that it's rocky and steep, which often means walking when your legs already feel like overcooked ramen.

[dan_pdx]

I took a different approach to running this year that focused on low-heart training along the lines of but not strictly adherent to Maffetone and/or Uphill Athlete and thought I'd report my results.

I don't have a long history of running, but I began running last summer and enjoyed it until I had a strange injury that sidelined me. I had thought that I was building my mileage and running sufficiently easily to make my trail running sustainable, but my injury indicated otherwise. I think I was still pushing deep into anarobic pacing anytime there was a climb, which is basically all of my trail runs.

So this year I tried the low-heart rate approach and reduced the carbs/sugar in my diet. In an effort to build up my aerobic base and because I was focused on long runs, I did almost no speed work and generally kept my heart rate under about 145 bpm. Because I live above 7,500' and there are very few flat trails here, this meant A LOT of walking uphill. After three or four months, here are the results:

(1) No injuries or nagging issues.

(2) I feel like I became fat-adapted pretty quickly. Going at a mellow pace, I was able to do 5-6 hour runs with no food or little food.

(3) I got faster running at a low heart rate but otherwise slightly slower at shorter tempo runs. I suspect, however, that I could get a lot faster if I did more speed work given my ample aerobic base.

(4) I lost 13 pounds.

(5) Once heat, altitude, techy trails, climbs, and cardiac drift are factored in, long “runs” involve a butt-load of walking. And not necessarily fast walking either. I still call it "trail running" but it could easily be called "hiking with opportune running."

(6) Sometimes I missed running fast and felt a little ego blow whenever a faster runner would pass me on a trail.

(7) I was able to do bigger and bigger days and weeks. I started at 20 miles/week and ended in the mid-60's. I ran a half dozen 20-30 mile runs, three 30-40 mile runs, and one 40+ mile run, all of which were on trails and involved significant vertical.

(8) Sometimes, especially early on, I would get frustrated with my own heart rate when it forced me to walk when I wanted to run.

(9) I ran with my kids (10 and 13) on shorter runs and even got them do to a 13.5 miler with me.

(10) I discovered the benefits of jumping into an alpine lake after or often during a long run.

(11) I refocused my goals. I stopped caring about how fast or far I ran and lost interest in doing any kind of races. Instead, I focused on running cool trails and routes. In this regard, I completed the 8 segments of the Tahoe Rim Trail and did some tremendously cool runs in other parts of the Sierra. I also realized that I could do multiday backpacking routes as day trips. This, I discovered, was my favorite part of trail running. I'd much rather run an epic trail slow than a boring trail fast.

So, all in all, I think the low-heart rate stuff worked well for me. It'll be interesting to see how it carries over to BC skiing.

Thanks for sharing your experience and all those amazing pics. I've been thinking about doing some aerobic base building on my trainer this winter, and this is a strong argument in favor of giving it a shot.

[Dantheman]

Sorry about the head injury. That sucks!

I've tried nose-breathing to control pace and found it to be uncomfortable, even when my heart rate is at moderate aerobic pace. (Am I a fucking mouth breather.)

Yeah, it's been shitty. Recovery was going well at first, but about 1.5 months out I made the supremely dumbassed mistake of taking my kid to the Woodward Park City grand opening which was like being at a concert for 2.5 hours. Everything went off the rails at that point and I'm still paying for it, but can see the light at the end of the tunnel now.

I also found it uncomfortable at first. But, over time my sinuses seem to have adapted considerably. A 20-min dose 2x/day bike commuting probably went a long way in that regard. I enjoy it now and seem to need a lot less water in hot weather.

[BC.]

Damn those pics are incredible.....and to think I’m running on a damn treadmill watching Bravo TV shows.....lol

I’d like to make like all those pics/shots screen savers for my computer.....awesome!

[Cruiser]

Took this shot on Friday when I was just about back to the trail head. Of course, the sky cleared shortly after I left the summit. Was able to slowly jog pretty much the entire descent.

Colorado mags will recognize this one for sure...

[Dantheman]

Nice one today. 8 miles, 3200 vert.

[jorion]

AKBruin that’s really cool stuff. I’ve also been doing sub-aerobic threshold runs all summer for the first time ever in an attempt to build base and raise my aerobic threshold. I’ve had a similar experience as you, albeit on a much more humble scale. I’ve been impressed with how good I feel after a run and how little fuel I need. I’m going to add in some speed/interval work in a few weeks and see what that does. And now I’m inspired to make some pre-season trips to the Sierra for some “hiking with opportune running!”

As an aside, I think Rae Lakes is my favorite part of the Sierra that I’ve seen. I’d love to run that loop at some point.