Running, Anyone...?

**2bjenny** · 07-22-2018, 09:29 PM

I’m thinking I might do ONE 50K next summer.

Hope your recovery is going well GS!

**carpathian** · 07-22-2018, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Viva

Yeah, yeah, yeah... By now, you're already planning your next race.

Ha true story! 24 hours later I'm like, 'that wasn't so bad'

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 07-23-2018, 08:41 AM

I'm tired of sucking at running uphill. Did a 7 mile out and back yesterday that went from 10k' to 12k' and back. Buddy I was with absolutely smoked me going up. Heading back down I was gliding and he was huffing and puffing. It like this with all my running partners.

Anybody here had success working a on a similar weakness? Hill repeats? How long? I could lose 5 lbs or so but not much more with dropping alcohol altogether and weighing my food. I don't expect an easy fix or to be able to keep up dudes who weigh 130, but I have obvious room for improvement.

I typically lift weights twice a week. I was thinking of replacing my leg work on one day with Hill sprints/ repeats. Anyone have a better idea? Thanks.

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**GeezerSteve** · 07-23-2018, 09:39 AM

Although uphill walking and running pace is mostly a matter of horsepower/body weight ratio, developing a range of efficient strides will help. Start by developing a fast uphill walking pace. The best uphill ultrarunners are very fast walkers uphill. 14 minute mile uphill walking pace is not uncommon for an elite ultrarunner, and some can do 13 minute and even 12 minute pace. I have taken lots of early ultra starts, giving me the opportunity to watch the elite runners as they pass. On steep hilly courses I often saw groups of mixed runnner/walker uphill elite racers, and the walkers in those groups usually had faster finish times by the end of the day.

Faster than 12 or 13 mile pace requires shuffling or jogging. Lots of training might get you faster at shuffling/jogging uphill but AFAICT it's mostly a matter of strength, body weight and fitness.

**2bjenny** · 07-23-2018, 10:08 AM

I have the same problem. Have a good friend who is like a little mountain goat and just bounces up a steep climb while I am huffing and puffing. However, I love the downhill and can usually cruise even some technical stuff. I've just tried to spend more time hiking uphill and a few hill repeats. I have noticed that it is getting easier and I can maintain a steadier, more consistent pace hiking longer/steeper climbs or running shorter uphills. I know losing 5-10 lbs would help a lot too.

When I was looking for training ideas for the uphill, I found a short trail running series by Solomon with a segment on running uphill, different techniques, that I found interesting. It's pretty basic, but for a flatlander like me, it was helpful. Also, Trail Runner magazine has a 5 minute leg circuit for mountain running that's easy to fit in any time.

**Viva** · 07-23-2018, 10:09 AM

I never did hill-specific training, just ran the hills in the course of my training runs. I would eventually turn into a prettry good uphill runner. [/URL]

**thefortrees** · 07-23-2018, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

I typically lift weights twice a week. I was thinking of replacing my leg work on one day with Hill sprints/ repeats. Anyone have a better idea? Thanks.

I'm not the fastest running uphill, but I have seen improvements over the past 1.5 years adding the following into my weekly routines:
- one day a week on heavy squats and deadlifts (3 sets x 5 reps)
- one day a week on a plyo-style leg blaster circuit (http://mtntactical.com/exercises/mnt110-leg-blaster/)

If you could squeeze in one day a week of mile hill repeats, I'm sure that would help too.

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 07-23-2018, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Viva

I never did hill-specific training, just ran the hills in the course of my training runs. I would tun into a pretry good uphill runner.

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Yeah, I run hills all the effing time and continue to suck. I'll try mixing in some 2-3 minutes all-out repeats in place of some strength work and some (uphill) fartleks as the bit of speed work I do.

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**I've seen black diamonds!** · 07-23-2018, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by thefortrees

I'm not the fastest running uphill, but I have seen improvements over the past 1.5 years adding the following into my weekly routines:
- one day a week on heavy squats and deadlifts (3 sets x 5 reps)
- one day a week on a plyo-style leg blaster circuit (http://mtntactical.com/exercises/mnt110-leg-blaster/)

If you could squeeze in one day a week of mile hill repeats, I'm sure that would help too.

Thanks for the input. I already do the lifting. Even do leg blasters as accessory work sometimes (mostly in the fall). I've considered jumping rope but running hard uphill seems like the obvious solution.

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**Viva** · 07-23-2018, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

Thanks for the input. I already do the lifting. Even do leg blasters as accessory work sometimes (mostly in the fall). I've considered jumping rope but running hard uphill seems like the obvious solution.

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What about non-hill running? Going mach looney regylarly on the flats will benefit your speed on other terrains. And, yeah, maybe it'll take year of solid base training to get you closer to where you ultimately want to be. Enjoy the journey!

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**I've seen black diamonds!** · 07-23-2018, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Viva

What about non-hill running? Going mach looney regylarly on the flats will benefit your speed on other terrains. And, yeah, maybe it'll take year of solid base training to get you closer to where you ultimately want to be. Enjoy the journey!

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That makes sense. I spent the last couple years building a decent endurance base after decades as a wrestler/wrestling coach. When I was exercising like a wrestler I could go out and run a 5:30 mile, but couldn't break 21 minutes in a 5k. I put speed out of my mind entirely as my goal was to be able to go out in the mountains and run for 2-3 hours comfortably. I used a heart rate monitor and forced myself to go slow enough to keep my heart rate low. It worked, but I've lost something too. Just started adding some speed work (conservatively) a few weeks ago.

It's been fascinating to learn a whole new way of training. It has actually been a relief to dedicate myself to something I never expect to be great at. I'm looking forward to the next experiment.

**Viva** · 07-23-2018, 05:04 PM

Ditch the the monitor. You're an athlete, and have been one for a long time. Figuring out what works and not relying on gizmos is incredibly rewarding. Make your training more about YOU, and less about outcome.

**Cruiser** · 07-23-2018, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Viva

Ditch the the monitor. You're an athlete, and have been one for a long time. Figuring out what works and not relying on gizmos is incredibly rewarding. Make your training more about YOU, and less about outcome.

Been thinking a lot about this lately. For a while there I was running for speed. Then I started running for distance. I tried monitoring my heart rate and using it to set my pace. More recently I was running for total time. I've since realized that, for me to get the most out of my runs, I have to give up all that and just run to run. No time, no route, no hrm, just my shoes on the trail.

But I'm lucky that I'm not training for anything, ever. I just like to get out and run. And I've got a bunch of good trails right out my front door so, when I want to run, I can just put my shoes on and go.

**Viva** · 07-23-2018, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Cruiser

I just like to get out and run. And I've got a bunch of good trails right out my front door so, when I want to run, I can just put my shoes on and go.

Run forever...

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**I've seen black diamonds!** · 07-23-2018, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Viva

Ditch the the monitor. You're an athlete, and have been one for a long time. Figuring out what works and not relying on gizmos is incredibly rewarding. Make your training more about YOU, and less about outcome.

Don't use it anymore. But it did help me resist the urge to go balls to the wall all the time early on. I'd highly recommend it to someone with a fast twitch background getting into an endurance sport.

Thanks for all the input.

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**mall walker** · 07-23-2018, 06:15 PM

been using some hokas on road lately. I usually stick solely to trail as road wrecks my legs. happy to say I’ve had a few 10+ road days and no pain with the hokas. maybe a coincidence but I’ll stick with the goofy fuckers for a while I think.

still loving the sportiva akashas on trail. and loving running a lot this summer.

ive been using a hr monitor as well, with my suunto spartan sport, and it’s interesting to know about for sure but idk that I can honestly say I’m using the information lol

**OldLarry** · 07-24-2018, 05:35 AM

Jesus- you guys don’t fuck around. Was rather proud of myself banging out 12 hung over last weekend

**nutmegchoi** · 07-24-2018, 07:16 AM

I played golf.
Is this sign of aging?

**GeezerSteve** · 07-24-2018, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by nutmegchoi

I played golf.
Is this sign of aging?

Only if you took a cart. I walked 18 holes the day after most of my ultras. Walking 36 or 45 holes on a hilly course (with play all day rate) was part of my ultra training.

**nutmegchoi** · 07-24-2018, 07:43 AM

Jesus, Steve.

Of course I took a cart!
My hip was hurting!!

**thefortrees** · 07-24-2018, 09:07 AM

I'm curious to hear of race day hydration strategies from the collective. My times in half and full marathons are becoming slightly competitive, and I feel like running without a pack/water bottle on race day will help me psychologically. I replaced my Camelbak backpack with a water bottle belt a few weeks ago (feels great to leave the pack behind!) but the belt is still annoying on faster training runs. Is it frowned upon to drop water bottles along the course ahead of time? Should I just suck it up and run with water?

**GeezerSteve** · 07-24-2018, 09:29 AM

IME, hydrating with salt one day before the race was key for me. I never needed a drink during a half marathon and always drank aid water or gatorpiss during a marathon. ETA: On second thought, I may have carried a hand bottle for one or two hot weather marathons, filling at aid stations.

If you carry water for a marathon, hand bottle is the way to go. Caching bottles on the race course might constitute a violation of race rules. Filing at ultra aid stations is easy because there will be a volunteer with a pitcher. OTOH, as you know, marathon aid stations are often nothing more than paper cups on a table.

**GeezerSteve** · 07-24-2018, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by nutmegchoi

Jesus, Steve.

Of course I took a cart!
My hip was hurting!!

Okay then. Sign of aging it is

**2bjenny** · 07-24-2018, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by nutmegchoi

Jesus, Steve.

Of course I took a cart!
My hip was hurting!!

That's not good. Are you not back to running yet?

**nutmegchoi** · 07-24-2018, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by 2bjenny

That's not good. Are you not back to running yet?

No.
This supposedly my 3rd week training for Marine Corps Marathon in late October, but I haven’t been able to run past couple weeks.
Going to see a doctor this Friday to find out what’s going on.

Thank you for asking.

I don’t think I read how your big race went.
How did it go??