Running, Anyone...?

[GeezerSteve]

When are you planning to get the surgery?
Hope you can get back to running again!

July 10 surgery date set. My running days are over.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

^^^ looks awesome. Too damn hot down on the Front Range. Heading up to Berthoud/WP/Fraser this weekend for a “run camp” with a few friends. Anyone know how to link the top of Berthoud north along the divide to James Peak/Jim Creek trail? Been eyeing that trail that seems to traverse under Mt Eva for like 20 years.

Been looking at that too.

http://continentaldividetrail.org/cd...teractive-map/

[nutmegchoi]

July 10 surgery date set. My running days are over.

I’m sorry, Steve.
Hope you have other things to keep you busy.

[GeezerSteve]

I’m sorry, Steve.
Hope you have other things to keep you busy.

Thanks for the thoughts, but no cause to be sorry. After surgery, recovery and rehab, I'll have plenty of things to do. I enjoyed my 30+ years of running, hundreds of races and the friends I met along the way, especially those life-long friends I made hanging with the PNW ultra community. I always knew my running days would end someday. No biggie. It was a good run (pun intended).

[nutmegchoi]

I think that’s pretty much how most runners are.
We know we’ll get injuries and we know one day we won’t be able to run anymore.
Except those handful of lucky/freak of nature ones.

[char_]

My running days are over. The legacy begins:

Attachment 235866

As someone contemplating training for a 50k this is pretty damn impressive.

[Viva]

Nice little piece on ultrarunning in today's Tijuana Times. One comes across such articles from time-to-time. I thought the one comment from Hamada on how the old essence of these events, that of strong comradery, is waning, rather interesting. While I've seen changes at events like Western, and even his race, AC, it's not so evident at other, analogous, races, say SD 100. And there's definitely more of a trend to glorify this silly hobby than thirty years ago, when I started.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...htmlstory.html

[GeezerSteve]

Good article. Yeah, the ultra community culture has changed alot since I got into in it (1994). When I toed the line on my few dozen ultras I knew or at least recognized nearly all the other runners. In my final few years of ultrarunning, I saw a few familiar faces although mostly felt like a stranger in a strange land.

A couple months ago a bunch of we old-timer ultrarunners got together to celebrate a PNW ultraunner legend's 80th birthday. It was a blast, kinda like the old times. FWIW, the group had a combined 2,000+ ultra finishes including 100+ WS finishes.

[ski-wpk]

Q: how many miles should I expect out of my trail shoes? 325 miles on my oldest pair now and they’re completely trashed, very little tread, but so comfortable. Probably 90% trail, 10% pavement, lots of vertical. Typical run is a 3.5 mile loop with a 1,600 feet of dry, rocky elevation. Not sure when to retire them. Any issue with going until they fall apart assuming I have OK support and don’t mind no tread (summer only)?

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I don't stop using shoes if they still feel ok. Some shoes blow out. Sometimes the lugs wear down. Some shoes just get hard. Under the latter two conditions shoes can still serve a purpose. I have some Hokas with about 500 miles on them. Soles are worn flat, but they still run ok if traction isn't a concern. My preferred shoes are Saucony. They tend to get very firm before they wear out in other ways. I keep using those on short runs and soft trails, until they fall apart. I like to have a newer pair with good cushion around too. I usually get about 300-400 miles out of those, but the last 100-200 miles aren't as good as the first 200.

[carpathian]

I did my first half marathon this morning, Anchorage Mayors Solstice race. Was planning on keeping 20 min 10k pace but jumped out early and stay with lead pack of 7-8 kenyans and/or college athletes. They were like who da heck this guy when I pulled into lead from mile 2-3.

17 min to mile 3 way too fast and I drifted back and could see leaders up until mile 6 at 36 min. Then hit mile 10 at 1 hour 1 minute flat. 6:06 mile pace not bad

Mile 11-12 was tough, quads complaining. Focused on quick steps and light feet. last mile has steep uphills through downtown neighbor hood killed my pace to 22 min for last 3.1 miles.

1:23:30 total @ 6:23 pace. 11th over all out of 1450, 2nd in age group (38)

Basically put me at projected finish time, should have gone slower at start and pushed for negative split

I guess I'm doing something right, been squeezing in 6 hours a week between bike run swim on top of 60 hour work weeks... burning candle both ends .

1 month count down to Ironman distance triathlon...

[buttahflake]

Holy Shit, carp. That’s awesome.

[Cruiser]

^^^ Right? Not in my wildest dreams could I run that kind of pace. Fantastic!

[carpathian]

Thanks! Over all race felt good, but could barely walk all afternoon and now this morning slightly gimped.

Gotta crawl on to road bike and spin it out . No pain no glory lol

[doebedoe]

So I finally broke down and bought some new, modern running shoes. (Trained from in some random old NB running shoes I had around.) Found out I"m an overpronator and was in a shoe a full size too small at the shop.

But now, after ~20mi in my new shoes over 5 runs, I'm experiencing a knee pain post run (esp the day after) that I haven't had before. Just adjustment to new shoes or stability shoes? Caused by heel striking a bit more in the new shoes? (Why would this be?) Total faus-pax to take advantage of the 30-day guarantee at the running store I bought them from?

[GeezerSteve]

Stop running in those shoes and try different shoes. Motion control shoes (i.e., shoes with a medial post) overcorrect and/or change the gait for some people. Some overpronators (e.g., me when I ran) do better with little or no correction. Each runner is different. PNW ultramarathoner Lary the Legend Webster overpronated so much that it was painful to watch, but he ran 200+ ultras, many 100 milers, and trained tens of thousands of miles in lightweight neutral shoes and was never injured.

[doebedoe]

Stop running in those shoes and try different shoes. Motion control shoes (i.e., shoes with a medial post) overcorrect and/or change the gait for some people. Some overpronators (e.g., me when I ran) do better with little or no correction. Each runner is different. PNW ultramarathoner Lary the Legend Webster overpronated so much that it was painful to watch, but he ran 200+ ultras, many 100 milers, and trained tens of thousands of miles in neutral shoes and was never injured.

No medial post specifically in these -- but they have a Wave plate / stiffer foam to do the same thing.

Good to know that overpronation isn't something that has to be fixed 100%.

[GeezerSteve]

Good to know that overpronation isn't something that has to be fixed 100%.

Some degree of pronation is natural for most people. Attempts to correct it -- or to correct it in certain ways -- sometimes result in injury. FWIW, Mizuno wave plate shoes made my knees hurt. The wave plate put some sort of weird torque stresses into my gait. I could tell after a couple runs. I had similar issues with some, although not all, medial post shoes. Starting 15 or so years ago, on the advice of a world class ultrarunner, I worked on rotating my COG forward with the thought of a midfoot strike (although that likely wasn't actually happening) a la Pose Method or Chi Running, gradually weaned off stability shoes to neutral shoes then to neutral soft shoes (Hokas). I'm pretty sure it extended my running years. YMMV of course.

[doebedoe]

Thanks, that's super helpful. I'm new to all of this and don't know how to sort out fact from myth. Spending $160 + tax on my first pair of real running shoes to have my knees hurt like this sucks.

Just found the model on my old shoes, they are the NB 769 (https://www.runningshoesguru.com/200...-shoes-review/). I guess these are also a stability-ish shoe with a medial post. Guess maybe just too much in the new shoe or I'm not getting alone with the wave plate.

I feel bad about going back and exchanging but I feel like this is why I paid retail in the first place.

[carpathian]

So I've had this perpetual achy left knee for 20 years. Pain would come and go over a day or week or within a run.

Had originally injured it running down mountain race , then limped for a couple years and lost muscle massin that leg. Without proper muscle tone the patella was shifting left ward and rubbing wrong somewhere in there.

About a month ago I was watching random run vids on youtube and saw pronation info.

Went running and realized my right foot pronated way more, landing pinky toe/ outside edge of foot first. My right leg is bomber So i forced myself to , what felt like, over probate left foot and voila! Left jknee stopped hurting instantly!

Now it is my go to move when the ache returns within a run. But it feels like I fixed it lol

[Cruiser]

I feel bad about going back and exchanging but I feel like this is why I paid retail in the first place.

Betcha a buck that the local running shop won't get dinged on that return. The shoe company will almost certainly cover the return as part of their agreement with the shop. Like you said, that's why you paid full retail. Take em back asap. Running shouldn't hurt unless you want it to.

[reckless toboggan]

[thefortrees]

Thanks, that's super helpful. I'm new to all of this and don't know how to sort out fact from myth. Spending $160 + tax on my first pair of real running shoes to have my knees hurt like this sucks.

Just found the model on my old shoes, they are the NB 769 (https://www.runningshoesguru.com/200...-shoes-review/). I guess these are also a stability-ish shoe with a medial post. Guess maybe just too much in the new shoe or I'm not getting alone with the wave plate.

I feel bad about going back and exchanging but I feel like this is why I paid retail in the first place.

This is exactly why you pay retail for shoes! FWIW, I've been running in the Mizuno Wave Inspire for a few years. I thought I needed a high stability shoe, and even in the Inspire, I struggled with mild knee soreness after longer runs. I switched to the Saucony Liberty ISOs a couple weeks ago + Superfeet inserts. The Saucony Liberty ISO is a lower stability shoe than the Wave (also lighter and less ramp angle), and the gait analysis at the running shop showed my pronation actually improved with the new combination. The first run I noticed I was engaging my quads more, and I felt like my bodyweight moved slightly forward in the new shoes. I guess the old platform prevented me from engaging muscles I need for knee stability? It is worth your time to checkout out some shoes with less stability, and give some a try with less ramp angle too.

[doebedoe]

Good beta -- thanks.

I need another day or two for my knees to recover before I feel comfortable running at the store to figure out the next shoe to try. The Guide ISO was my 2nd choice, sounds like the Liberty ISO is a slightly less stability-focused, more premium version. I liked the ISO lacing system.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Had a real shitty run today. 11 miles on rolling trails. Right before the turn around point I was feeling good and ran up the longest hill section pretty fast (for me). Then I couldn't cool down. Shuffled back to my car well below my normal easy pace, stopping to cool off in the shade multiple time. Still can't cool down five hours later. I'm running a mild fever (99.9). I had a plenty of water and some salt. Cold shower. It was hot today, but I've done plenty of runs on hot days recently. And the problem started after only 5 miles. What the fuck is going on? Am I just sick for real? Dehydrated? Only other time I felt like this was when I sat in a very hot hot tub for way to long. It feels like my thermostat broke.