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  1. #601
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    Mar 2006
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    Right, but if you pop the boot in and out or push the cuff of the boot toward the front or rear of the ski, it changes your result. And I'm not talking about very much effort or even holding it there. If your finger pressure it in either direction, then you can get a sticky card or a loose card or finally just a slightly loose card.
    Also, does it matter if it's an old Diver with the Spheric AFD or a Guardian with a sliding AFD?

    PS, I learned you go a little passed touching with the wings. Like a quarter turn or so.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  2. #602
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    With boot in binding, I stick my hand down into the boot and pull up and back, so the toe lifts up. When there is slight resistance with the boot pulled up and back, it's good. Which usually translates to the card being pretty tight, but still able to move just barely, when not pulling up on the boot. That's how I've always done it with the Driver toes, fixed or spheric AFDs.

    Is that what you're asking about?

  3. #603
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Right, but if you pop the boot in and out or push the cuff of the boot toward the front or rear of the ski, it changes your result. .
    It might change a little but not outside of still good, as I recall. Try setting the tab in the next slot on the heel?
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  4. #604
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    Mar 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRR11 View Post
    With boot in binding, I stick my hand down into the boot and pull up and back, so the toe lifts up. When there is slight resistance with the boot pulled up and back, it's good. Which usually translates to the card being pretty tight, but still able to move just barely, when not pulling up on the boot. That's how I've always done it with the Driver toes, fixed or spheric AFDs.

    Is that what you're asking about?
    Yes, thank you!
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  5. #605
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    2,285
    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Right, but if you pop the boot in and out or push the cuff of the boot toward the front or rear of the ski, it changes your result. And I'm not talking about very much effort or even holding it there. If your finger pressure it in either direction, then you can get a sticky card or a loose card or finally just a slightly loose card.
    Also, does it matter if it's an old Diver with the Spheric AFD or a Guardian with a sliding AFD?
    To test toe height, I always put ski on the floor, kneel on it (partial bodyweight on one knee on ski behind the boot), then use one hand to pull aftward on the highest point of boot shell (the plastic that would be behind your calf), and that forces boot toe to contact the underneath surface of the upper contact point of the toe piece, then use other hand to pull the business card/paper. This method is not official nor in any manual, as far as I know.

    I NEVER see such sensitivity that you see. My toe is usually around DIN=11. If your DIN is lower, try increasing DIN just for your tests, just to eliminate sensitivities, then after toe height is properly adjusted, then re-adjust your DIN back down to whatever you ski at.

    The main goal: Make toe height low enough to eliminate loose up/down slop, and make toe height high enough so the toe isn't already moved into the elastic travel range just by clicking the boot in.

    .
    - TRADE your heavy PROTESTS for my lightweight version at this thread

    "My biggest goal in life has always been to pursue passion and to make dreams a reality. I love my daughter, but if I had to quit my passions for her, then I would be setting the wrong example for her, and I would not be myself anymore. " -Shane

    "I'm gonna go SO OFF that NO ONE's ever gonna see what I'm gonna do!" -Saucerboy

  6. #606
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NorCal
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    2,285
    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    So what does the group think about demo bindings? Plastic toe-plastic heel. Should I use them, sell them or part them out?

    Those bindings suck, but I sometimes use them anyway. Personally, I am comfy using that exact demo binding model with these constraints:

    - Only temp usage planned. Like <10 days skiing, like just to discover my fave mount position of a ski, so I can soon remount a better binding on same ski at my fave position. After dialing in my fave position, my friends and I end up skiing a few extra days on them, but I keep the risk exposure below 10 days.
    - I don't go into no-fall zones with them, no double-stagers, nor do anything very rad.
    - Ski waist <110mm only.
    - I'm 6'2", I vary between 205-230lbs, and with the constraints above, I trust them for my body size. But my 6'5" 250 lb friend borrowed my skis for 3 ski days, and he had no problem breaking some plastic directly behind the brake housing. That pair of bindings is still skiable after that.

    Old Salomon tab heels seem aged and risky to me, but if you decide to accept the risk of old tab heels in general, then this model's demo track seems LEAST risky of all the tab heels...because this demo track has 6 screws, instead of the 4-screw non-demo tab heels. I think the biggest risk is the rear of the metal track can squirt up and out from the rearmost pair of screws, so if this happens to the demo heel, you still have 4 screws holding you in as you try to recover from the fall, and get yourself down safely as you abort the day and retire the shattered plastic base of the heel piece.

    If you want an everyday binding, then treat yourself to something better.
    .
    - TRADE your heavy PROTESTS for my lightweight version at this thread

    "My biggest goal in life has always been to pursue passion and to make dreams a reality. I love my daughter, but if I had to quit my passions for her, then I would be setting the wrong example for her, and I would not be myself anymore. " -Shane

    "I'm gonna go SO OFF that NO ONE's ever gonna see what I'm gonna do!" -Saucerboy

  7. #607
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
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    22,462
    Basically, you're all telling me I was right to push backwards on the boot cuff. Thank you.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  8. #608
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Where the climate suits my clothes.
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    5,601
    Got my 997 collection out today, thought I would share. 😁😁

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #609
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    SoCal
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    6,749
    I reused the holes in a used ski, and needed a smidge more forward adjustment to get the forward pressure correct. Ground off the flare on the adjustment screws to get another 1/16". If you do this, be sure to tape off the area well to keep metal grindings out of the mechanism and track. Pack with binding grease when done to slow rusting of the screw.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by 1000-oaks; 03-30-2018 at 07:45 PM.

  10. #610
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    on the edge
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    6,676
    Quote Originally Posted by MRR11 View Post
    With boot in binding, I stick my hand down into the boot and pull up and back, so the toe lifts up. When there is slight resistance with the boot pulled up and back, it's good. Which usually translates to the card being pretty tight, but still able to move just barely, when not pulling up on the boot. That's how I've always done it with the Driver toes, fixed or spheric AFDs.

    Is that what you're asking about?


    I set so card (plastic gift card) only moves when pulling back on boot and doesn't move at all if not pulling back
    If it's green, smoke it...if it's pink, poke it

    BUY THESE------> 193 iM 103 - $50 https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=179797

  11. #611
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Where the climate suits my clothes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by booner View Post
    I set so card (plastic gift card) only moves when pulling back on boot and doesn't move at all if not pulling back
    #metoo

  12. #612
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    NWCT
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    2,363
    Quote Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
    Got my 997 collection out today, thought I would share.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sexy!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #613
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    725
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin I View Post
    To test toe height, I always put ski on the floor, kneel on it (partial bodyweight on one knee on ski behind the boot), then use one hand to pull aftward on the highest point of boot shell (the plastic that would be behind your calf), and that forces boot toe to contact the underneath surface of the upper contact point of the toe piece, then use other hand to pull the business card/paper. This method is not official nor in any manual, as far as I know.

    I NEVER see such sensitivity that you see. My toe is usually around DIN=11. If your DIN is lower, try increasing DIN just for your tests, just to eliminate sensitivities, then after toe height is properly adjusted, then re-adjust your DIN back down to whatever you ski at.

    The main goal: Make toe height low enough to eliminate loose up/down slop, and make toe height high enough so the toe isn't already moved into the elastic travel range just by clicking the boot in.

    .
    I stand on the front of the ski with the boot in the binding and forcefully torque the boot side to side while tightening down the vertical toe height until there absolutely no movement between the toe lug and the binding. Lol.

  14. #614
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    livin the dream
    Posts
    5,761
    Shop Rats:

    Found some BNIB Solly "E Lithium 10" bindings on eBay for crazy cheap. They will be going on some 156s i bought my girlfriend. She is a beginner, probably din 4.

    I haven't been able to find much on these clamps, they seem to be just OEM bindings for solly beginner/intermediate skis - perfect for what I am doing.

    Can anyone confirm?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using TGR Forums mobile app
    Best Skier on the Mountain
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    Squaw Valley, USA

  15. #615
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    WA
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    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    Found some BNIB Solly "E Lithium 10" bindings on eBay for crazy cheap. They will be going on some 156s i bought my girlfriend. She is a beginner, probably din 4.
    They only work with for hostage plates. Do not buy.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #616
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    134
    Looking thru this thread I found some info but not a complete answer on this. Removing the inner din spring from the dual spring set up, in this case sth 16's. Our idea is to do this temporarily for use by a family member, expert skier but unfortunately not as young and strong as he once was. I think we should have him around 7.5 din to be on the safe side. Other than the din the set up is perfect for the trip.
    So the questions are, is it really a good idea, any risks or downside and how does the removal of the inner spring effect the din values? I've seen opinions of both 2 and 4 din reduction and are those reductions right across the board or is it more gradual, for instance 2 lower at the minimum and 4 at the maximum. Any help on this would be most appreciated.

  17. #617
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    SoCal
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    Think it's a reduction of about 3, but a shop guy who has tested it would know best. Should be across the range, these springs are linear.
    Last edited by 1000-oaks; 02-25-2019 at 09:11 AM.

  18. #618
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    Feb 2009
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    On Vacation for the Duration
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    You can't just dial back to 7? IMO the bigger safety issue may be a skier who thinks he is as good as he once was, once. See it all the time.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  19. #619
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NorCal
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    2,285
    Quote Originally Posted by unclebill View Post
    ...Removing the inner din spring from the dual spring set up, in this case sth 16's. ... I think we should have him around 7.5 din to be on the safe side....So the questions are, is it really a good idea, any risks or downside and how does the removal of the inner spring effect the din values? I've seen opinions of both 2 and 4 din reduction and are those reductions right across the board or is it more gradual, for instance 2 lower at the minimum and 4 at the maximum. Any help on this would be most appreciated.
    My experience with 2 concentric springs is ONLY with Sally bindings that are higher DIN than your STH 16. I didn't even know that STH 16 bothered to have concentric springs (because 916's achieve DIN=16 strength without concentric springs). If I had to guess, I'd guess that removal of the inner spring from a STH 16 might turn it into the equivalent of a STH 14 (which is an actual product)...which would mean a reduction of 2.

    So, when you say you've seen opinions of both 2 and 4 din reduction by removal of the inner spring, were those opinions referring to STH 16 precisely?

    If you get past that, then yes, I agree the springs should be linear---a constant reduction in DIN strength across the whole range.

    .
    - TRADE your heavy PROTESTS for my lightweight version at this thread

    "My biggest goal in life has always been to pursue passion and to make dreams a reality. I love my daughter, but if I had to quit my passions for her, then I would be setting the wrong example for her, and I would not be myself anymore. " -Shane

    "I'm gonna go SO OFF that NO ONE's ever gonna see what I'm gonna do!" -Saucerboy

  20. #620
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    134
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin I View Post
    My experience with 2 concentric springs is ONLY with Sally bindings that are higher DIN than your STH 16. I didn't even know that STH 16 bothered to have concentric springs (because 916's achieve DIN=16 strength without concentric springs). If I had to guess, I'd guess that removal of the inner spring from a STH 16 might turn it into the equivalent of a STH 14 (which is an actual product)...which would mean a reduction of 2.

    So, when you say you've seen opinions of both 2 and 4 din reduction by removal of the inner spring, were those opinions referring to STH 16 precisely?

    If you get past that, then yes, I agree the springs should be linear---a constant reduction in DIN strength across the whole range.
    .
    I didn't read anything about the concentric springs in this thread that referred specifically to sth models. It all related to earlier ones and I believe, higher din models but also 916 was mentioned. Now I was getting cross eyed at that point so could easily be wrong on 916. But for sure this particular sth 16 has that spring setup, I've had them out before.

    And I think I remember reading somewhere, I wasn't looking for it at the time, just ran across it, just like you suggest, the sth 16 and sth 14 at some point in time were identical in every respect except for the extra inner spring added to the sth 16. And if that is the case with the ones we have here, then we're good to go. Pull the inner spring, set to 9.5 which becomes 7.5 and set the old billy goat free.

  21. #621
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    SoCal
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    STH16 is an STH14 with these upgrades:
    Metal toe pedestal
    Aluminum spring caps
    Concentric springs (the outer springs are not the same as the STH14 springs)

    916/STH-Steel doesn't have concentric springs, but they're larger diameter than STH (with Driver toe) springs so they don't need the extra inner springs to reach 16.

  22. #622
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    134
    So if we had some 14's we could just swap the springs and go. Don't have but maybe we can find some. Now there are some sth 12's around here, but not driver toe. What about swapping those springs in? If they are compatible/fit that puts us right in the range we want for him.
    And as far as just removing the inner spring from the 16's, is that simply unknown territory or not recommended for some reason. I'm thinking to at least make a comparison with and without the inner spring. Compare the two toes, one with both springs and one with inner spring removed. Measure the torque required to get the one with both springs to say 10 din, then apply the same torque to the other with inner spring removed and see where it takes it in the indicator window. What do you think?

  23. #623
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    134
    The plot thickens. I just remembered and now found them buried away, a set of s912 ti's, demo set up. It has a driver (style) toe. We could use the toe springs from them and the heel springs from the sth 12's, convert the sth 16's temporarily into sth 12 and go with that. maybe??

  24. #624
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Squamish, BC
    Posts
    898
    yo - what's the word on STH16 and gripwalk? we good?

    any word on whether solly is switching from WTR to Gripwalk for the new STH2? It seems like that's what we're going with, yeah?

  25. #625
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    SoCal
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    OG STH16 with GW? No.

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