Please Read--Business Advice Needed--Photo Related

[Big Blue]

check out Keoki Flagg's gallery at Squaw. I'd suggest getting a hold of him and asking him some of these questions. I think he'd be willing to give you some advice since you're in a completely different area.

[Trackhead]

I'm already finding the business side of photography takes a serious toll on time spent in the field .

Dancing and skipping through fields of flowers. Yipee!

Seriously though Griz, you need some sort of showcase beyond the SLC international airport. Your scenics are top notch. Much better than many other established 'pros'. Wish you the best. I'll buy a print, if you let me.

[grizzle6]

Keep it coming. Stepping out for a sec, but I really appreciate all the advice everyone is throwing out.

[Hutch]

Griz - from what work of yours I've seen, you'd kill it at the main street arts fair in PC. Lots of second-home and condo owners in town trying to find that perfect Utah piece for above the fireplace...

[4matic]

Start an eBay store to create interest and develop a market. That's what this guy did.

http://www.cookseytalbottgallery.com/

I bought some prints and visited his basement studio. He has a Gallery now.

[midget]

Griz, I'd go with the farmer's market and art festival route first. the overhead is very low and you will get a good idea of what's selling and what isn't. Another option is to look into getting in with some other galleries, frame shops, etc. What was said about Mangleson is very true and you also need to keep in mind that the location is probably going to be 75% of why or why not you get good business if you go with your own gallery. Another thing is I think you need to be extremely diverse or very very very specialized in what you are showing to get the right biz.

Also a very very good and diverse web store that is marketed very well will do you a lot of good. I think this is definitely something where you should start out small and work things up....depending on how things go of course.

also what was said about Keoki is a damn good idea. I've been meaning to stop by when I'm in Squaw and ask myself actually....

Unfortunately the kind of photos I shoot aren't really that inspiring enough to buy from a person that could actually afford to buy big prints since not many 30+ people are into 16 year old kids sliding handrails!

Lets hear some other ideas people.

[Parvo Pup]

Not sure where you live - but check this outfit for a local chapter - http://www.score.org/

SCORE is basically a consortium of retired business execs and investors that provide direct mentoring of small business startups. They can assist with creating a B-plan, locating financing, etc.

More importantly, they can act as impassionate critics of your proposal to give you an idea if your plan has merit - or is just a pipe dream.

Lots of good resources - check 'em out.

[Eldo]

When I walk into a gallery, I feel two things: 1) I'm very impressed with the majority of what I look at and 2) I know that it could be me one day--if I do it right...

That's only natural among creative people. Having people see and appreciate your work is a big reason why we create things.

But over time that becomes a bit less of a driving force. When photography becomes your business, you often have to make decisions from that annoying business perspective.

Having your work on display in your own gallery would be an amazing experience. Just make sure it is also the right business decision.

If it is, then go for it. If it isn't the right decision now, maybe it will be in a few years time.

[grizzle6]

Bump for any revelations overnight.

[Imz]

Raising capital to finance a artistic/ creative dream is almost impossible unless you:

a) Apply for competitive grants
b) Have already developed a steady, demonstrable revenue stream (in which case you wouldn't need a loan in the first place)
c) Start getting press/ showing in galleries (in which case you wouldn't need a loan in the first place)

It's a chicken/ egg scenario.

I would worry less about a brick and mortar gallery and get your work shown nicely on a web site. Lower start up cost, minimal risk.

Good luck...

[bklyn]

A year ago a friend in Park City was trying to get me to take over his friends' gallery store. He wanted to retire and do what I was doing - traveling and shooting as much as I want without the woes of running a retail operation. Funny, but I was not ready to trade places. Are you?

Well of course, check out Mangelsen, he's opened that market and he's got the gallery store thing down pat (16 locations! He might be over extended, but he's got to be pulling in $$$).
http://www.mangelsen.com/store/util/...=&show=gallery

Some things I learn every time I pass through DIA and see his store.

- Multiple price points - from large prints down to post cards. You can take something away from his shop for $20 or $2K or more. I'll bet the sub $500 market is the real money maker.

- He is never in the stores. NEVER. He's out shooting on location. I think the retail option will work if you are ready to be an absentee manager. Retail details will always suck you in and there will be something to do besides taking pictures every single day.

- He must have thousands of money, and I mean money shots. Technically perfect, compelling composition and commercial. The depth of his portfolio is his strength, he can continue to rotate fresh material (inventory) throughout the year without taking another shot. You might want to be ready with a couple of hundred (guaranteed sellers) without the pressure of going out to do "production" before you open the store. The first months-year is going to be demanding and you won't have the time to fill in any holes.

[ for example: ""Polar Dance: Born of the North Wind," published in 1996, was compiled after photographing polar bears in the wild for eight years." But his site only has 82 photos of bears. Even if that's only 50% of his best shots for sale, that's a whole lot of time spent to develop inventory ]

- Every time I see people stop to gawk at his work. There are few people who pass by that would not buy something if they could. The work is not highbrow by any means. Beautiful but accessible, you know what I mean? No edge.

- High traffic is key - high money customers have to be able to see your work. Some artsnobs will not consider something bought in a retail location "art'. Will you be a gallery that features other artists (a great way to ensure fresh material monthly) or will you be Grizzle Inc?

[Crud's Uncle]

First, you are not going to attract VC, your project is too small and does not support the multiples.

You probably should look at a combination of equity and debt financing. The process to put together the package takes some knowledge and expertise. You can PM me, and I will answer more specific questions.

The most important thing is to comply with the securities laws and regulations. If you don't, you may end up wearing orange.

[snapshot]

Don't limit your talent, with a camera, to Landscapes.
For example, consider shooting team sports, dance teams, graduation pics and so on.
You can take on as little, or as much as you want, & the profits can be great.
Concentrate on your goals, but use your talent to help pay your debts as you build your business.
Also, start investigating other options for your future gallery.
Custom framing, for example, can bring in high profits.
Keep your advertising costs down. Word of mouth will eventually bring the customers.
Finally, find a niche.

[WhiteLight]

A year ago a friend in Park City was trying to get me to take over his friends' gallery store. He wanted to retire and do what I was doing - traveling and shooting as much as I want without the woes of running a retail operation. Funny, but I was not ready to trade places. Are you?

To piggyback and elaborate on bklyn's excellent post:

A few questions to help define your goals:

1. What, exactly, is the allure to you of having your own bricks-and-mortar gallery? To be blunt: what is so great about having your work on display that way, vs. online?

2. Can you achieve those same ends with an online gallery? I think one of the great boons of the internet is the ability for creative types such as yourself to disseminate your work outside the old-school distribution channels. The possibilities for guerrilla marketing, and forming online alliances with other kindred artists, are mind-boggling to me. Frankly, I see traditional galleries as being more of a ball-and-chain than a blessing. Don't underestimate the collosal pain in the assedness, and energy-suckingness, of taking on a fixed display space.

And the biggest and best question of all:

3. How do you want to spend your time? Does having a gallery support that decision? This question goes back to the snippet of bklyn's post I quoted above.

Beware taking on debt and responsibilities that may suck the juice out of your passion; or, worse, force you to eventually knuckle under to a crappy day-job to repay those obligations, should the money not pan out. Stay light on your feet.

On an encouraging note: it sounds like the success you are enjoying already can help guide you. Work it.

And, watch out for getting sidetracked by ideas of the "ideal" viewing space for your work. That's a subjective thing. Art is all around us. Some of the best images I've seen have been in odd places... a Polaroid I found in a soggy gutter in NYC...etc.

P.S. Thank you for broaching this topic. It's helped clarify my thinking re: my own work. Good on ya!

[truth]

I'm thinking we should just open a chain of hot dog carts all up and down the Wasatch front Griz. We could print your photos on reaktorcorps t-shirts and include one with every 5th dawg. We'd make $$$$$$$$.

[Bum Z]

I've also considered Gateway Mall, but I think rent would be far too expensive, and I'm still not convinced it has the right type of buyer.

As an employee in the Gateway, I'm pretty sure you are correct. Not enough money rolling through there to support a gallery, and rent won't be cheap.

[willtheboarder]

I worked at a gallery for awhile and it is a lot of work. Just know that you're going to be putting in a lot of hours in the beginning. Congrats! and good luck

[Lynx]

i wish i had a ton of advice for opening a gallery, i do know there are people who major in gallery management that you could look to as employees in the future. and I do know my parents got pulled into buying a print from one of the park city galleries when they were visiting a couple years ago (they wouldn't have bought it if there wasn't a brick and mortar store for their browsing pleasure.....they walked in and saw a print that they thought would look perfect in their house, and blammo, they decided to buy it) and they chose to have the gallery frame it and send it back east. I think it was a scenic moose shot (my dad likes mooses, go figure) probably a Mangelson?

Mostly I want to say I think you are someone who can make it happen and do it really well if you decide to really go for it. I think you're just that kind of guy, wishing you much luck in going after your dreams!

[smitchell333]

I have zero advice on running a gallery. I do think there is some solid advice here on ways to do it without a physical location.

I CAN offer some assistance if you do go the route of getting a physical location as I'm a broker in CO who does a lot of commercial leasing and purchasing. So can help you understand that world if you get there. Typically retail space will be quite expensive - perhaps on the order of $20-30/SF for nice high traffic area. Say for 2000 SF you'd be paying $3000/mo at the low end. Maybe you dont need that kind of SF and maybe UT prices are less, but gives you a ball park.

[powder11]

Ive always thought its best not to get in bed with outside investors. they expect a ROI and will own you the profits start rolling in. I would look into alternatives to your own gallery like using other businesses as your gallery.

restaurants and coffee shops are the best place to hang your art. many restaurant owners are more than happy to hang nice work and only charge a small % when the picture sells. I know an artist in whistler who does this and it works quite well. the stuff hung in coffee shops and restaurants around town act like billboards to get people into a studio run out of her home where they typically buy something. she also does greeting card size prints of her art that is displayed in gift shops all around the village. I beleive the greeting cards are her bread and butter.

Between all the UT resorts you could spread yourself around to the specific demographic your targeting without the risk of investors or leases. you could hire an art or film intern/student from the U on a commision basis to visit businesses to get your stuff on the wall while your out shooting.

get your name established first and then worry about opening a gallery.

good luck!

[grizzle6]

Wow. This is really helpful and I appreciate mags taking the time to share experiences/opinions. Lots of good info to digest.

Many of you have asked what the allure of owning my own gallery is. The answer is simply that I have always dreamed of it. But that doesn't mean I would chase a dream irresponsibly or without thought, foresight or a clear understanding of the consequences/benefits of doing so. I don't necessarily believe that it will make me rich (in fact--I know it is likely very tough to keep enough traffic of the right sort in a gallery to provide dependable income). However, I believe there is nothing that sells quality imagery like seeing it in person. There are a number of photographers whose work I've looked at online and been moderately impressed. However, after having visitedt their galleries in person, I would--were I able to--purchase a print. It is just that much more compelling.

I have also thought long and hard about photographic alternatives that will allow me to have/support a gallery. I've done some real estate stuff, I've even done family lifestyle and (gasp) portraiture. The truth is that I enjoy that as well, and to be honest--there is much better money in it.

After reading all the posts here, I'm understanding that I have much more ground to cover before actually opening my own gallery. I do currently have my work spread out in several locations, but there are countless other avenues to pursue as well. One thing that frustrates me about restaurants and coffee shops is that I don't feel like people are there to spend top dollar on photography. I'll be the first to admit that my work is not cheap, but in the realm of fine art/landscape photography, it's not expensive either.

The question that has plagued me for years is this: What makes someone look at a print and think to themselves "I have to buy this. I simply can't leave without it in my hands". Instead of, "Wow--that is amazing. That is so beautiful. Oh well..." Is it money? Is it the way you sell it? Is it an emotional connection to the image? Is it loyalty to the artist/photographer? Share your thoughts.

[hutash]

I was thinking some of the same things as your last post. Do people in restaurants buy fine photograph? Occasionally, but you are not likely to get the big purchases that way.

Is it best to have a variety of price points? Absolutely. You may only want to see large expensive prints, but the small and medium size prints, as well as cards (and even t-shirts) maybe a significant part of your cash flow. They won't be your bread and butter, but they keep a steady stream of cash coming in.

What makes someone buy a print? It varies from person to person. Sometimes it is the photographers name, but I think that only applies to a very small number of photogs. Sure it would be great to be a Weston, Adams or Rowell, but they are .001% of the photogs out there.

Is it necessary to have your work up in a gallery, yours or someone else's? Probably, for the market you are going after. It is hard to get people to spend the big bucks with out seeing the work right in front of you. As Lynx said, her father would not have bought a moose print with out standing in front of it saying "Wow I need that" (goes with the stuffed moose head) I have seen Galen Rowell's Potala Palace with rainbow dozens of time in various places, but until I saw it in his gallery in Bishop, did I realize just how unbelievably amazing it really is. If I had 20 grand I would but it, it is that incredible.

Speaking of which, if you get a chance to get to Bishop, Rowell's gallery (Mourning Light Gallery) is the best photography gallery I have ever been in. Fortunately I do not collect photography, or that place would get me into serious trouble. I really enjoy photography, but collect antique natural history prints, which get me into enough trouble.

[LegoSkier]

I would like to point out something important about Mengelsons galleries. They are franchises. He makes his money off of one the moment it opens (as in the franchise fee) so for all but a few corporate owned ones print sales from them are incidental to him. Which is why they can seemingly open and close at random.

Also, Gallery Keoki is a general gallery selling sculpture, paintings, and photography from many artists. It just happens that the owner is a photographer and sells his work there.

For art fairs, when exhibitSpace launched the first year we acted as corporate sponsors to several of the nations largest art fairs (Madison, Ann Arbor, Chicago, Pittsburg, Mountain View, etc). Two important bits of knowledge came out of that experience:
1. People like to see and touch the print they are going to buy. The fact that we were corporate sponsors (like our competitors NextMonet.com, TheGuild.com, etc) and could not sell was a major hinderance. It was basically a waste of the $30k we put into the effort. We had beautiful promo material that people could take home with them and they could see our prints in the booth but sales from this effort were dissapointing to say the least.
2. Of the photographers we did see at these fairs, their booths were set up showing big expensive prints hanging and they also had the "milk crate" inventory of matted 8x10s selling in the $20 range. These milk crate sales made up a majority of the revenue from the fair as they usually only sold 1 or 2 of the big prints during the fair.

On the photo gallery market in general and nature shots in particular. It is a very difficult space to be in. For nature shots you're squeezed from multiple sides by poster shops in the mall and by other galleries. I should also point out the "pretty picture" factor. In approaching artists that we could represent, we first went after the nature photographer and indeed got many at the top of their field in that area. Later we started working on the more urban crowd in places like San Francisco, New York, LA, etc and got a lot of "I won't associate with lowly nature photographers" attitude from the avant guard set. I am saying this because people who "collect" photography tend toward this avant guard set and tend to not give the nature photographer much credit (no matter how many National Geographic covers they may have). You, as a nature photographer, are selling to the wealthy tourist. They are on vacation, they drive a BMW SUV, they buy new ski gear for their kids every year, and they see your shots in a window on the way to dinner and buy it on a whim. Is that enough to pay your rent? To feed your children?

Bottom line is this (and I am not trying to be a downer, just telling it like I have seen it). I have worked with many of the worlds most accomplished nature photographers and not a single one makes a living off of print sales. Even the traditional stock market is challenging now because you have to compete with Getty and Corbis who each have hundreds of millions of images that they can license for cheaper that you. Every one of the photographers that I have worked with who can afford a home and take care of a family with photography have done so by a combination of revenue streams including stock sales, print sales, teaching workshops, and book publishing (the major factor). Take the four photographers exhibitSpace has represented who make a good living off of their photography: Michael Sewell, Wayne Lynch, David Middleton, and John Shaw. All four of them do stock, write articles, teach workshops, sell prints, and have authored (or co-authored) books. None of them counts print sales as a major factor in their income or has a gallery.