Got my roll...

**moose pit** · 03-09-2007, 11:06 AM

well almost... twice out of about a hundred tries

Last night was my first time in a boat (pool session), my eyes are dry from the chlorine, my sinuses are fucked and I think I'm going to do it again next week

.

**Tye 1on** · 03-09-2007, 11:38 AM

nose clip and a mask or swimming goggles mang. Helps ya not rush it.

good on ya!

**MarsB** · 03-09-2007, 11:52 AM

Nice. Second on noseclips, they will help immensely. You are on your way. Learn offsides/onsides/sweep/c to c/hand/whatever you can until its bomber in the flatwater. Get it dialed in at the pool, and you'll be ready to take it to some moving water in no time.

**Yonder_River** · 03-09-2007, 12:34 PM

I'm so dependent on nose clips it's not even funny. You'll last so much longer underwater, definitely buy some Smiley's.

My 2 cents: I wouldn't worry about learning offside rolls before you get in a river, just get one side down and work on your offside later. I'm assuming you'll start out in II/III where swimming isn't of much consequence so keep that in mind when you find yourself upside down and having to roll. It's easy to get freaked about swimming then and all the motor memory and technique goes out the window. When you do flip in a rapid, wait for your boat to settle completely upside down before you try rolling. It really screws with beginners orientation if they're boat is uneven relative to the surface. Just remember to chill and take your time. Panicking, trying too quickly, and lifting the head up are the bane of beginners.

**Tye 1on** · 03-09-2007, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Yonder_River

Just remember to chill and take your time. Panicking, trying too quickly, and lifting the head up are the bane of beginners.

Great advice. I used to practice in the pool by hanging upside down for first a 5 count, then 10, 15 etc....then rolling. My 'underwater mantra' when i'd get flipped was: hands [pushing thil i could feel them above the water], angle [cocking the wrists so the blade had a 'climbing angle' that would sweep across the water, and head last. This thought process takes me enough time that usually the boat's going the same speed as the current....and there's no upstream or downstream edge to mess with me...

**ridinshockgun** · 03-09-2007, 01:28 PM

Wait until you hit the first one when it counts. Multiply the excitment now by about 10.

Everybody says noseplugs help, but I just don't get it. I never have an issue with getting water in my nose (rocks to the eye are a different story though).

**Tye 1on** · 03-09-2007, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

Wait until you hit the first one when it counts. Multiply the excitment now by about 10.

Everybody says noseplugs help, but I just don't get it. I never have an issue with getting water in my nose.

No shit about that first combat roll!!!!! Yeah, i've got buddies that are like that w/o plugs, for me it's just a distraction i don't need...

**moose pit** · 03-09-2007, 02:42 PM

One of the guys givin' me much needed instruction hooked me up with noseplugs half way thru the session, that and goggles made the pool a little friendlier on the eyes and sinuses.
My big problems are driving my paddle down instead of sweeping coupled with sitting upright (upside down), next week I'll have it.

**Conundrum** · 03-14-2007, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Moose Pit

My big problems are driving my paddle down instead of sweeping coupled with sitting upright (upside down), next week I'll have it.

This happens to everyone at first. Maybe ask your instructor about a c to c.

Also, like said before, it's BONER CITY when you hit your first one in the river.

**lazaruslong1108** · 03-14-2007, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Conundrum

This happens to everyone at first. Maybe ask your instructor about a c to c.

i would not learn the c to c first, it is an old style roll that puts your shoulders at risk for no reason. the c to c also is just not as fast or as stable as a sweep roll. work on a sweep roll first and then work on other types, including the c to c, so that you can use them for different situations.

**kayaktheworld** · 03-14-2007, 09:08 PM

Agreed, C to C is the worst roll that you could start off with. It is slower, less effective, riskier, and teaches bad habits.

**Alpine Dreams** · 03-14-2007, 09:16 PM

Nothing compares to your first combat roll. A park is good palce for that!

**cmsummit** · 03-15-2007, 01:53 PM

just remember- a good roll is one that gets you up the first time, everytime.

the c to c is probably the easiest to learn and perform. you don't have to have a super strong hip snap to get up as you'll get more leverage out of your paddle. just remember that you should always be able to see both hands no matter what position you are in(right side up or counting fish). follow this rule and you should be able to avoid shoulder injuries on this type of roll and most in most instances on the river.
the sweep roll is quicker, but you have to have a stronger hip snap as you won't have as much leverage on the surface of the water.
I would not recommend the backdeck roll as it exposes your stomach, chest and face to underwater objects.

my roll is basically a combination of the c to c and sweep.

lastly- KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN!!! the most common problem with beginners on blown rolls is pulling the head up too quickly. your head should be the last part of your body out of the water.

good luck!

**SurfTheEarth** · 03-15-2007, 03:16 PM

Head down and it will happen every time. Touch your nose to your shoulder as you set up to roll and this will help keep your head down as you roll up.

Also, good practice is to get a set of hand paddles and flail around in a pool with them on. Before you know it you'll have a hands roll. Will give you more confidence and comfort when you get out on a river.

**cloudpeak** · 03-15-2007, 05:51 PM

I've learned the C to C roll and the sweep roll. IMO, the sweep roll is vastly superior. It's faster and more reliable.

**teledave** · 03-15-2007, 06:42 PM

The only roll I have is a C-to-C, it's pretty bombproof but I have gotten worked pre-roll a couple of times. Is there anwhere online that ai can get instruction for a sweep roll?

**moose pit** · 03-16-2007, 11:49 AM

Week two........

Well I forgot the goggles and didn't pick up nose plugs so today my eyes hut again and my brain is floating in the pool water that ended up up my nose.

But hey 60% of the time I had a roll (not including the first half of the session)

A little power reduction in the early sweep, focusing on the blade of the paddle at sweep initiation and all of the sudden I'm upright

**Yeti** · 03-16-2007, 12:05 PM

When learning to roll (or refining it), it's always amazing how little power it takes if your body and head are in the right places. Once the waters recede this summer, I may work on hand rolls -- something which seems quite unpossible right now.

**Tye 1on** · 03-16-2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Yeti

When learning to roll (or refining it), it's always amazing how little power it takes if your body and head are in the right places. Once the waters recede this summer, I may work on hand rolls -- something which seems quite unpossible right now.

Yeti speaks truth. I used to get hand rolls in the squirt boat, but not plastic.

One thing that helped me in the learning stages was sliding my left [non-sweeping] hand down the paddle. The heel of my hand would hit the beginning of the blade and would then set the angle just right, and give me a little more leverage. I don't recommend this for use in the river, per se, and of course this was done with a 202cm wood paddle with a 75 degree offset [kinda old skool].

**Blurred** · 03-17-2007, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by cmsummit

I would not recommend the backdeck roll as it exposes your stomach, chest and face to underwater objects.

This has been debated, and I'm by no means an expert....but even Ken Whiting agrees that the backdeck roll is $$$.

You may think your face and chest are exposed which works in theory, but you have to remember that your arms are in front protecting them as you sweep when using this roll. This roll is also quicker which equals less time for you to be exposed to rocks.

I also think this is the easiest roll. No "hip snap" really needed. Just gotta make sure you're laying flat and sweeeeeeep.
I've been able to teach people to roll using this one, but c to c IMO is a bitch to learn. [/2 cents]

edit: I found the link!!
http://www.paddlermagazine.com/issue...icle_125.shtml

Teledave, this is $$$$ for you.

**Mybad!** · 03-17-2007, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

This has been debated, and I'm by no means an expert....but even Ken Whiting agrees that the backdeck roll is $$$.

You may think your face and chest are exposed which works in theory, but you have to remember that your arms are in front protecting them as you sweep when using this roll. This roll is also quicker which equals less time for you to be exposed to rocks.

I also think this is the easiest roll. No "hip snap" really needed. Just gotta make sure you're laying flat and sweeeeeeep.
I've been able to teach people to roll using this one, but c to c IMO is a bitch to learn. [/2 cents]

edit: I found the link!!
http://www.paddlermagazine.com/issue...icle_125.shtml

Teledave, this is $$$$ for you.

Good in a hole too.

**ridinshockgun** · 03-17-2007, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

You may think your face and chest are exposed which works in theory, but you have to remember that your arms are in front protecting them as you sweep when using this roll. This roll is also quicker which equals less time for you to be exposed to rocks.

Back deck roll is definitely money, I have hit stuff with my elbow/arms doing it but never my face or head (The face carnage I posted here actually happened as I was tucking up for a c to c).

One thing about the sweep for a beginner is if you get your timing just a bit off you'll start missing rolls. This happened with me and someone got me setting up for a c to c..... and now I kind of do a half ass c to c / sweep combo. It has been bombproof ever since. I don't take the time to go through all the setup steps in the c to c so I get up really fast with whatever it is. I will admit with a boat with tall edges (SCUD, etc), a proper C to C setup is pretty much impossible.

If I flip to my left its a back deck roll everytime though.

**SKISC** · 03-17-2007, 10:32 PM

Nice Report. Keep gettin after it and the roll will come. Once you got, you got it (at the pool or calm water). I am still working getting positioned in the river but it will come early this year. You are going to have so much with this.

**RootSkier** · 03-17-2007, 11:20 PM

The problem with a back deck roll is that it puts you in a super unstable position once you are upright. Not a problem at the class II playspot, but in difficult situations being layed out across the back deck is not an advantageous position.

**kayaktheworld** · 03-17-2007, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by RootSkier

The problem with a back deck roll is that it puts you in a super unstable position once you are upright. Not a problem at the class II playspot, but in difficult situations being layed out across the back deck is not an advantageous position.

In that case, you are not doing it right.

When I do a back deck I come up sitting forward with a paddle stroke set.

If you are coming up still on your back deck then you are bracing up instead of rotating around the back deck.

The same thing happens when most people hands roll. Instead of using rotation and a hip snap, they rely entirely on bracing up by pushing off of their hands. Because it is easier to do this from the back deck, people stay back there.