My little Lotus flower... Gosey's 178 DP 120 review

[Deep Days]

THE SKIS: DP 178 LOTUS 120 FLEX 2

Obligatory no-camber shot.


Bases. Facebook won't let me upload the picture of the topsheets...


Comparison with 170 Deep Powder (Powder Plus), which have a disgusting amount of camber (this will be relevant later).

THE SKIER: GOSEY
Slowly improving upper-intermediate skier.
5'8, 165 lbs
Likes: Big, open turns; soft snow (especially windbuff); railing groomers; taking some air (when I'm healthy); bumps (when my knee doesn't hurt)

Dislikes: Tight trees; skiing slow; super-firm rhythmless bumps

Comparable skis used: 170 Deep Powder mounted -1 w/ Salomon 997 14 DIN. Absolutely loved the heavy weight for destroying crud. Did NOT like the excessive camber for issues with going over the bars in deep stuff, but the camber was useful for helping hold an edge on firm snow. This is a great ski for me, and I'll probably keep it around for when I don't feel like being nimble. I also own a 179 stiffish (softer than what I believe to be a true "stiff") PMgear BRO and love its ability to hold an edge despite the relative lack of camber (great for slarving similar to that of the lotuses). They are my everyday ski. I took a comparison picture, but again I can't host it.

I skied Marshal's 190 Flex 2's at the Mini last year. I noticed the same issue of the outside ski slipping away from me and attributed it to the ski's being too stiff for me. I did notice definitely that the 178s are significantly quicker and more "powder puppy"-like, but I mean c'mon, they're 12 cm shorter.

Boots: Solly X2 (plug boots), recently modified by Larry (aka THE MAN) down to what I'd guess would be about a 100-110 flex. I can actually flex the boots now, which helps.


THE TECH SHIT:
Mount: + 1.0 cm w/ Salomon Equipe 14 DIN 997

Base prep:One coat of molybdenum graphite wax followed immediately by a coat of warm (25-32 degree?) toko orange wax. Marshal adroitly pointed out how dry these skis were upon arrival, said to be due to the hardness of the base, which wards off rocks. I have two days on these skis and will put another coat of warm wax on them tomorrow, then another coat after another 2 days, then resume regularly scheduled programming.

Edge prep: 5 passes tip to tail w/ coarse Gummi stone. Edge bevel unknown.


FIRST IMPRESSIONS:
1. Ohmagawd, these are the prettiest skis I have ever seen!
2. Damn! These are LIGHT!
3. There really is next to no camber. It's barely noticeable if there is any at all.
4. The mount point looks pretty far back...


TEST CONDITIONS:
Location: Loveland Pass, Loveland inbounds, Vail

Snow: Mixed bag, certainly. Everything from sun-softened butter to windchalk to death cookies to powder bumps to tree bumps to bulletproof bumps to 10" of fresh.

Terrain: I started out on Loveland pass on a fairly wide-open, south-facing chute that funneled to something a little narrower. Then I moved to a short steep pitch of a groomer at Loveland and then to the Ridge. Today I skied pretty much everywhere at Vail, actively excluding whatever terrain was bumped out (I skied Outer Mongolia, some Northwoods, some Avanti, some Blue Sky, and others).

THE REVIEW:
Day 1: Loveland Pass and Loveland
My first run was a moderate pitch with highly variable snow. There were parts that were scraped to Bejesus and back, but most of the snow was either soft and chalky or smooth and buttery. The skis absolutely destroyed it. The chalk involved a bit of a breakable crust that has been known to make me struggle in the past. I COULD NOT MAKE THE TIPS SINK. It took several turns to get used to the lack of camber, as I noticed almost instantly the "slarving" tendency of the skis--you throw 'em sideways a touch and they finish the turn, partly on edge, partly sliding perpendicular to the fall line. What I loved was how aggresively I felt like I could ski these--where I normally would have been going over the bars in variable snow, I was just in more control on the Lotuses. I could keep my shins slammed against the front of the boots without any worry of getting pitched forward. The other thing I noticed very quickly was how easy it is to vary the turn shape--You could wait for the minimal sidecut to turn the ski but it would take a long time, and I felt like it was difficult to do, either due to the ski being stiffer than what I'm used to or due to the lack of camber. The skis were extremely nimble. I felt like if you set up a slalom course in this kind of chalky snow, I'd be able to slarve through it at a pretty good clip, totally in control the whole way. Or a GS course... or a super G course... or... you get the idea.

I would definitely agree with what some others have said about the 190: the ski is noticeably more responsive at speed. My statement about "nimbleness" goes times 2 when you get above maybe 30 mph--you think "turn", and they do it, however you want them to. I came out of this chute (2 runs) thinking "THESE SKIS FUCKING RULE!"

I went inbounds to Loveland for a groomer test--true hardpack. They slarved on this stuff as well, which was a little unnerving for me when I tried to just roll my ankles, pressure the tips, and wait for the sidecut to bring them around. I felt like the outside ski got away from me some (this was a consistent theme) and thus like the ski is slightly impaired in a true race carve (although this may very well be user error and others would be better to consult on this matter). If you do a slarve with 10% slide and 90% carve, there's no trouble. But trying to lay railroad tracks on firm snow is not exactly advisable, in my experience. But that's not what these skis are for...

I followed Blurred to the Ridge for a death cookie test. I (me, not the skis) failed that test, so I was forced to continue the test today at Vail.

Day 2: Vail reports 10" on top of 7" yesterday
My first few runs were the liftline under Born Free. I found myself grinning like an idiot on the chair, looking at how much bigger my tracks were than everyone else's (), indicating that these skis are stable at moderate speed (probably 25-30 mph--as much speed as I could get up while making big turns and trying not to die), even in deep snow on crust. It was 50 degrees last week, forming a gnarly suncrust under the foot or so of blower that fell in the last two days. I could feel the edges of the Lotuses bite this crust while slicing through the blower on top, NEVER having the slightest inclination of diving. This rockered tip works, fellers.

I headed back to Avanti for some more porpoising (a very good term to describe the smaller turns on the Lotuses) and a test in the bumps. A lot of the snow was true crud by the time I got back there--about half of it on groomers, the other half on bump runs. The lotuses ate it all up. It felt like they were carving into the bumps while still staying afloat (if that makes sense). I was able to charge through the crud, pretty much NEVER having to lean backseat to avoid certain turmoil. This was definitely not the case on my Deep Powders. Again +50 pts for the rockered tip.

I went to Northwoods for some humiliation, and this time was good for putting in perspective how much more responsive the skis are at speed. In those tight, steep trees atop highly irregular bumps, I was almost stopped at the end of each turn, and I found it a lot harder to initiate a turn (harder than I would have expected based on the differential in other skis). The light swing weight helped a great deal here, allowing for easy pivoting and "jump-turn"-like turns to gain a little momentum. The gnarly firm bumps under the chair on the way back were pretty much pure punishment, and that I attributed to the lack of soft snow. There were a few short steeper pitches of deep crud that I would classify as none other than "fun as hell" on the Lotuses. Normally I have to backseat like hell in order to have fun, but I could ski as fast as I wanted and still feel centered on the ski.

(Cont'd below)

[Deep Days]

Then it was back to the Back Bowls and Blue sky for some glades and bigger crud turns. I probably sound like a broken record saying how hard it is to dive the tips and how fun crud is (of ANY turn size or shape) on the lotuses, but the Back Bowls certainly reaffirmed this notion. The glades were a little trickier, as they were more like true bump runs, which are hard on my knee. Overall, I was extremely impressed with the performance in bumps, as the skis seemed to have an "on-off" switch for the effectiveness of the edges: you can turn the switch on in the bumps, and they'll carve around the sides of them, with the light weight allowing for easy pivots and the long shovel allowing for good absorption of the front side of the bump. The bumps also helped show me how much I enjoy the flex: nice and soft for said absorption in the shovel but stiffer underfoot, enough to make big fast turns without feeling uneasy. Didn't have a chance to huck anything big. Closest I got was a 6-foot cornice drop, and the quickness helped me slow down!

DURABILITY:
The bases have won some battles with a few rocks. Not nearly as much damage as I'd have expected. However, after only 2 days of skiing, I'm noticing some chipping issues on the topsheet:



GRADES
Powder: A+. That shit does not suck.
Variable snow/crud: A+. I was extremely impressed.
Soft bumps: A (Not A+ because you have to ski slower in bumps, and the ski isn't quiiiite as responsive at slow speeds).
Firm bumps: B. They can do it, but I wouldn't really want to.
Groomers: B-/C+. What the hell are you doing on a groomer with these skis anyway?
Tight trees: A-. Certainly easier than other skis, but I still struggled (because I'm not that good a skier).
Stability: A. Felt unexpectedly off balance maybe 3% of the time.
Quickness: A+. Unbelievable.

BOTTOM LINE: These are the sickest skis I have ever been on in soft snow. If you stay away from groomers, you'd have to be some type of weeblo not to have fun on these skis. Absolute grade A work, DP.

[J-Rad]

Nice binders Glad to know they found some love.

[Rontele]

Max,

I say this purely in jest, but who the hell would base their purchasing decision on a pair of women's skis from a strong intermediate who beaters half the time and cannot finish an entire season unhurt.

insert proper use of here:

[marshalolson]

DAMN!!! that brake bendy looks

[upallnight]

max: this looks really well-written and a solid review style. glad you are enjoying your skis! thanks for taking the time to do this. i think folks that spend that amount of time doing a meaningful comparison really add to the community.

be sure to report back when you've had some more time on them to see if your opinion changes. i've only got 2 days on my 120s (190s) so far.

[Deep Days]

DAMN!!! that brake bendy looks

Damn! Knew I forgot something!

Thanks for the mount, schral. And I forgot to take into consideration the brake bendy (forgot that it's a little more difficult with those extra 20 mm). I'm gonna make another batch of pralines sometime soon, and I'll be sure to bring you some. Did you enjoy the jambalaya?

Rontele: good point. My reasoning was that if I love them, I would imagine lightweight guys--even if they are much more skilled than I--would also be pleased.

[pechelman]

any idea what the weight is?
seems like it could make an absolutely KILLER dynafit setup, espc for tight trees

whats your bootsole?

[Deep Days]

whats your bootsole?

Need to figure out the weight... I'm at 303. Already agreed to let some other mags give 'er for a run or two, so you'd be welcome to try if we ever crossed paths.

[pechelman]

bah
you and your midget feet

thanks though.

[Fritz]

Trigger = pulled

[Toby]

Edge prep: 5 passes tip to tail w/ coarse Gummi stone.

Why did you do this?

[laseranimal]

that is EXACTLY what I'm looking for

too bad its way out of my price range

let the savings commence!

[Deep Days]

Why did you do this?

I'd rather detuned/duller edges in soft snow. I was under the impression that that's what a gummi stone was for: controllably dulling edges to make them less "hooky" or "catchy".

Anyway, I skied the Lotuses again today. I was in a lot of trees, some steep, some fairly tracked, some not. Sliding through the trees on these things is both easy and FUN! I skied some chopped up crud at pretty high speeds and tested the "edging" ability. The skis passed with flying colors (once I figured out how to get on top of them, that is). I skied some wind affected shit later in the day on the same high-speed pitches. Again, nothing but pure fun and great control. I love the ability to just throw them sideways to slam on the brakes--helps me ski in control. Hell I even skied some groomers with just a half inch of fresh snow on top, and that was silly fun.

The bottom line is that if you're a lighter guy who hasn't bought into the TGR mentality of bigger, stiffer, fatter, gnarlier, burlier because my skis reflect the size of my penis, and you want an incredible ski for any form of soft snow, get a job and get some 178s. From what I understand about spats, they seem to be able to do pretty much everything a spat can do and most of what it can't do. These skis fucking RULE.

[Toby]

I'm familiar with detuning tips and tails (although I kind of prefer them sharp), but I've never heard of doing the whole edge.

[Deep Days]

I'm familiar with detuning tips and tails (although I kind of prefer them sharp), but I've never heard of doing the whole edge.

I thought it would help the ski slide (edit) well horizontally. Sliding them to control speed is part of what I like about them. I felt like if the edges were razor sharp underfoot, they'd catch when i tried to slide them around. Catching an edge is the LAST thing I need for my knee.

Then again, I could just be an idiot. Either way, it seems to have worked well. Except in really weird wind funk (which I have very seldom encountered), I have no problems with the edges catching.

[pechelman]

I thought it would help the ski slide horizontally better (and it has). Sliding them to control speed is part of what I like about them.

what basis of compairison do you have for that statement?
I thought you detuned them from the start.

either way, whatever floats your boat.
doubt it would make a lot of difference in the soft snow youll generally be skiing these thing in

[upallnight]

I thought it would help the ski slide (edit) well horizontally. Sliding them to control speed is part of what I like about them. I felt like if the edges were razor sharp underfoot, they'd catch when i tried to slide them around. Catching an edge is the LAST thing I need for my knee.

Then again, I could just be an idiot. Either way, it seems to have worked well. Except in really weird wind funk (which I have very seldom encountered), I have no problems with the edges catching.

detuning an edge is really only for the tip & tail -- to ease entry into and out of a turn.

"sharp" edges are just fine in pow -- you really would not know the difference between a sharp and dull edge in deep pow, and you will feel the difference when it is edge-able.

detuning the full length of the edge makes little sense as it will just ruin the edge. (i.e., you'll have to shave off more to make it sharp; it's a minute amount, but you generally want to save as much of your edge as possible.)

whether or not you are able to throw a ski sideways or not in fresh pow has more to do with the shape, camber/rocker, and weight of the ski, not the edge's sharpness.

for what it's worth, i find the 190 120s to do some things better and some things worse/different than spats, but that's only an initial opinion formed after a few days in soft snow.

[slippy]

The bottom line is that if you're a lighter guy who hasn't bought into the TGR mentality of bigger, stiffer, fatter, gnarlier, burlier because my skis reflect the size of my penis, and you want an incredible ski for any form of soft snow, get a job and get some 178s. From what I understand about spats, they seem to be able to do pretty much everything a spat can do and most of what it can't do. These skis fucking RULE.

I'm not trying to be an asshole (it comes naturally!) but at your skill level, coming from the south, second year out west (one year injured) what are you doing on these skis?

This thread boggles my mind. It's like a sixteen year old just getting a drivers license and writing a detailed review of the brand new ferrari he just bought, like he's been driving supercars for years. And plug boots? Holy shit. So wrong.

Who told you plug boots and DPs were a good idea anyways? That's weird too. I'm not trying to poop on your parade, but my jaw is dropped.

[summit]

Riiiiiight.... cuz you have to be a megagnargnar sickter spancered skier to handle a little bit of fat rocker.... idiot

[Rontele]

Riiiiiight.... cuz you have to be a megagnargnar sickter spancered skier to handle a little bit of fat rocker.... idiot

Slippy does have a point and Max knows that. This doesn't take away from Max's insights and well written review.

[pechelman]

slippy has a point, but its really just a case of misplaced enthusiasm it sounds like. infact max sounds a lot like me in some senses

from the south, new skier, lots of skis and gear, etc, except I dont have a death wish or at least I realize the consequences and stick to things at or just above my ability level. Im in no hurry. Skiing is fun.

oh and max, just curious here, have you spent any of that money of yours on lessons or education?
if not go take some and sign up for some avy classes\hut trip things like from 10thmtn or summit huts.

[Rontele]

slippy has a point, but its really just a case of misplaced enthusiasm it sounds like. infact max sounds a lot like me in some senses

from the south, new skier, lots of skis and gear, etc, except I dont have a death wish or at least I realize the consequences and stick to things at or just above my ability level. Im in no hurry. Skiing is fun.

oh and max, just curious here, have you spent any of that money of yours on lessons or education?
if not go take some and sign up for some avy classes\hut trip things like from 10thmtn or summit huts.

you are also a fucking rocket scientist, so you are naturally drawn to the enginerding behind all of this shit.

[upallnight]

i believe that max's review was well-written and covered key points that should be in any review. i think this style of review is a solid model for all others.

also, he inserted a line in there "about the skier", which helps the reader to put the review in context (for those that don't know him personally).

whether or not someone ought to be riding a less expensive ski is really outside the scope of the review, and deciding who 'deserves' to ride what just comes across as sour grapes.

key points to look for in a review, IMHO, include:
* quick skier profile
* terrain & snow conditions encountered
* experiences with other skis -- preferably including some 'benchmark' skis that are commonly available

[slippy]

Riiiiiight.... cuz you have to be a megagnargnar sickter spancered skier to handle a little bit of fat rocker.... idiot

Never said that, but thanks for the compliment. Anyone from CO want fess up on the plug boot/DP idea? Kinda curious.

You are not what you own, Max. Hardcore gear doesn't make a hardcore skier. It makes a broke, frustrated skier that is held back by his equipment (at your ability). Enthusiasm is what really makes a good skier, you know: someone whos fun to ski with....and you seem strive on enthusiasm....maybe stick to that while you are getting some years under your belt. The best big mountain skiers usually peak around 30, so what's the rush? Experience gets you good, not always equipment. [/big brotherly advice attempt]