TR: My New Bros

**Crass3000** · 02-01-2007, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Camel Toad

I'm happy.

So I guess they aren't making them twin tip anymore?

**Camel Toad** · 02-01-2007, 02:18 PM

semi-twin

FZ · 02-01-2007, 02:19 PM

This sucks

**Tippster** · 02-01-2007, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

Worst post ever Tip. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Is the winky implied or am I being incredibly thick and not getting your drift again, Brett?

**smmokan** · 02-01-2007, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Crass3000

So I guess they aren't making them twin tip anymore?

They're SLIGHTLY turned up in the back, but not much at all.

**Atrain505** · 02-01-2007, 03:34 PM

Since I last saw Pat in October at Mt. Hood hes had one day off trying to get the skis out the door.
Equimpment setbacks, supplier mess-ups, etc.
Some things are out of his hands. Everything that is in his hands he has been busting serious ass on. He's so passionate about these skis and feels terrible that they are slow out the door. He is doing everything he possibly can.
They will arrive.

**Lone Star** · 02-01-2007, 05:19 PM

Delayed production is expected. But poor customer service is not. A lot of people would cut a lot more slack if a little bit of communication was happening. I got an email over a month ago saying my skis would be on the line that week. Previous to that, I was told it would be two or three weeks. All only when I went to the trouble to make contact and ask.

The website says "NOTE: Due to overwhelming demand, shipment of your order will be 50 days after the order is placed."

The maggots are way more forgiving of PMGear than the public would be, I'm certain. And rightfully so. I thought truth was a bit harsh when he bitched about his Bros a while back. But now, I sit here without skis in February, ordered them in September when they were slated to ship in October. I knew they probably wouldn't be ready then, but I was cool with waiting an extra couple of months. Couple of months.

I know I set myself up for a lot of flak for saying anything in public, but private means aren't working. PMGear is taking advantage of the generosity of at least one maggot and it pisses me off. Pisses me off more that by complaining about it, I have to worry about being labeled a whiny bitch.

but I guess I really am a winy bitch.

I spent money on a product made by a company I wanted to support. I knew I was looking at possible delays and complications, and was cool with that. I'd just like PMGear to reflect some of the respect and understanding I've given them back to me.

Tippster- perhaps you should work customer service for PMGear. When someone calls and complains about not getting their product on time:
"I'm sorry sir, but you only paid for the product. If you want it quicker, you can fly/hitch/drive here to Reno and help make it!"

**Twoplanker** · 02-01-2007, 05:41 PM

I just got off the phone with Pat, who is standing on the factory floor.

Pat tries to answer all of the phone calls, board posts, emails, PMs, and voice mails that PM Gear gets everyday. Wee have honestly tried to stay in communication with people as much as we possibly can. However, nailing that job 100% means time spent away from making skis and we figure that is where the time is best spent: making skis instead of excuses.

Your skis are literally being manufactured right now - as I type this. No, it's not okay that you've had to wait this long. No, it's not okay that we've not kept you better informed about the status of your skis. All I can say is that we're doing the best we can. We've never asked anyone to give us preferential treatment, but we've only survived because of it. If we were some big company you guys would have lynched us.

PM Gear has survived because of 2 things: 1) the willingness of the Maggots to cut us a ridiculous amount of slack, 2) we make kick ass skis.

We are working hard to make sure that #1 is not necessary. All I can say is that things are improving. We control our own manufacturing now, but getting to that point cost us a LOT of time. We absolutely had to do it though.

LoneStar, check your PMs. I'm sending you my cell phone number.

**Dantheman** · 02-01-2007, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Lone Star

PMGear is taking advantage of the generosity of at least one maggot and it pisses me off. Pisses me off more that by complaining about it, I have to worry about being labeled a whiny bitch.

but I guess I really am a winy bitch.

Taking advantage of your generosity? Gimme a break. You paid for a product, you didn't make a donation or invest some cash expecting a quick return. Frankly, considering all the hoops PMGear has been forced to jump through to get their skis made I think we can consider ourselves lucky to be getting skis at all this year.

AFAIK 188s are being pressed as we speak. Crack a beer, calm down, untwist your panties and be patient.

**smmokan** · 02-01-2007, 05:49 PM

^^^ I wouldn't be so harsh on the guy. I think he's just a little upset because there are so many others on the board who are starting to get their sticks, and he's still waiting. Like he said- maggots are going to be a lot more understanding than the general public. If you bought something for $650 and the company said you would get it in 50 days, and it has already been over 100, what would you think?

That being said... Lonestar, do not give up hope. I ski on these things every day and I fucking love them. LOVE them. You will not be disappointed.

**RaccoonFace** · 02-01-2007, 05:57 PM

Hey I'm a third year engineering student who is interning at PM Gear. Splat is doing everything he can to get your skis built. He tells me this everyday. I see it with my own eyes everyday. I know everything seems to be taking a bit longer, but there are snags that are difficult to avoid: Supply delays, mistakes made by contracted labor, a very steep and unforgiving learning curve, wrong parts, unknown process requirments, etc.

Keep in mind this is PM Gears first stab at manufacturing it's own product. Many of the people who produce the things you like are new, and inexperienced. Everyone puts in their full effort in getting you the best product they can in as timely a fasion as possible. There will be mistakes, and delays. And, with every passing day, the product and the processes get better.

I can't say I'm a "representative" of PM Gear, but I do go there almost every day and do what I can to make and finish quality skis. If it says anything, I've been doing this since October I don't get paid, and I don't have any Bros; because all of us here are concerned with getting skis to the customers who have been waiting so patiently. But, there is only so much the people at PM Gear can do. Since I have been there we have made a couple hundred skis, and on more than one occasion there have been multiple week (as in more than one week) delays because the skis we have made have been stuck at the shop getting stone ground and waxed. In each delay there have been AT LEAST 20 pair just hanging out in ski shops, who are also busy trying to please everyone. We are doing what we can to get your skis to you ASAP.

I am a consumer, and I understand your frustration. When I get something I want it now, but I hope you understand that you have not only purchased a product, but you have also invested in a company that is interested in serving YOU specifically. Hell, the company is named for the people here.

Lonestar relax, once again we are waiting on skis to get finished. And, Splat told me you're just a couple pair away from getting a tracking number.

okbye

**Samwich** · 02-01-2007, 05:59 PM

I understand the concerns people are expressing, but trust me. I've skied every shape, model, and length that PMGear cranks out, and every single pair is incredible at what it does. Pat truly is busting his ass, and he will get you your skis. When you get them, you'll find that they are worth the wait.

**bbirtle** · 02-01-2007, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Lone Star

...pisses me off. Pisses me off ...whiny bitch.

but I guess I really am a winy bitch.

I would go with "angry internet geekboy hiding behind anonimity" more so than "whiny bitch."

My source says that Splat is EXTREMELY dedicated to his job, taking great pride in his work, and as it sounds like there are delays, fighting hard to get them corrected. I understand most of the issues are well out of his direct control and that must be incredibly frustrating to him.

Petitioning (in private) to Splat for your money back would have been the correct response to your dilemma. Slamming him in public as you've done is way out of line.

**Pow4Brains** · 02-01-2007, 06:06 PM

What about making a list of peeps who don’t have their skis with an ESTIMATED ETA and post it here? You could update it when “shit happens”. They are worth the wait.

**Bluebird** · 02-01-2007, 06:08 PM

Or even a If you ordered between 9/1 and 9/30 your skis will be shipped within X days and so on...

**Twoplanker** · 02-01-2007, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Pow4Brains

What about making a list of peeps who don’t have their skis with an ESTIMATED ETA and post it here? You could update it when “shit happens”. They are worth the wait.

It's a good idea, but it goes into the category of "things that are not making skis".

**pechelman** · 02-01-2007, 06:19 PM

maybe in the off season, update the website to include a customer login page? I think it might be something nice even non mags would appreciate beign able to check status.

Also, Im curious if it wouldnt be beneficial for pmgear to take next season off and get their suppliers\processes\flow in order. Really make it a building year where you can document what needs to happen and build some knowledge and experience base. Dont know if its practical though with having to pay for rent and stuff like that. Anyway, just a couple ideas as Ive been in somewhat similar situations with needing to deliver a product by a deadline and always always always having it run to the last minute due to whatever reason(s).

**Twoplanker** · 02-01-2007, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by pechelman

maybe in the off season, update the website to include a customer login page? I think it might be something nice even non mags would appreciate beign able to check status.

Also, Im curious if it wouldnt be beneficial for pmgear to take next season off and get their suppliers\processes\flow in order. Really make it a building year where you can document what needs to happen and build some knowledge and experience base. Dont know if its practical though with having to pay for rent and stuff like that. Anyway, just a couple ideas as Ive been in somewhat similar situations with needing to deliver a product by a deadline and always always always having it run to the last minute due to whatever reason(s).

The missing ingredient is capital. We've developed a great brand and product but our capacity is extremely limited. That's all about to change. Things WILL be different...stay tuned.

**Lone Star** · 02-01-2007, 06:29 PM

bbirtle, can't say i'm hiding behind my anonymity. my physical address is shown under my Location, foy crying out loud. dummy.

I'm not trying to make this personal with anybody. That's not the intention and if it's taken that way, I'm sorry I have come across so poorly.

There's a number of times that an assurance is broken before any reasonable person would take action. For me, it was three. I even pursued this matter by email. nothing happened. now I post about it on the board and suddenly my skis are next on the list. like they were the last three times.

all i'm saying is, all of us have a threshold, per se, of how many times someone goes against their word before we start a ruckus. i hit mine. perhaps i'm not being tolerant enough. I consider myself pretty frickin' tolerant, though...

I know that any time spent communicating with and updating each customer is time spent not making skis. But if your primary customer complaint isn't the long delays as much as the lack of communication, you need to understand that even if the skis take a little longer, time has to be sacrificed to keep your customer happy in other ways than quick delivery time.

**Twoplanker** · 02-01-2007, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Lone Star

... you need to understand that even if the skis take a little longer, time has to be sacrificed to keep your customer happy in other ways than quick delivery time.

Agreed. We'll do better.

**Jay's Dip Powcher** · 02-01-2007, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by iceman

I just think it's important to remember that this is the first year they manufactured the skis on their own, and that Splat has completely busted his ass to get shit done. He's one of us, the company was started by maggots, he's just had a lot of setbacks.

People might be unhappy with how long it's taken, but anybody who didn't realize that this was going to take time was tripping.

So go skiing and one day a package will show up and it'll be like a little christmas. You will be stoked. In the meantime the best idea is to just chill.

I know nothing about this but I will be damned if that does not sound reasonable.

**Tippster** · 02-01-2007, 07:13 PM

You may be the first person to have the lack of communication complaint that I've heard of, LoneStar. Every other thread on this subject ("When will I get my skis") and about PMGear's Customer Service in general has tended to the other extreme.

You'll get them. I think (hope) you'll love them. If not, there's no shortage of peeps who'll take them off your hands.

**workinforturns** · 02-01-2007, 07:56 PM

i waited 200 days for my bros.
quit complaining.
my bros were well worth the wait, they are by far the funnest ski i have ever ridden.

**powder11** · 02-01-2007, 08:11 PM

I was stoked on getting the 192 Bro's this season and emailed Pat who couldnt guarrantee a delivery time. I really needed to have something in place by January, so I wieghed my options and decided it was best for me to wait until next year to get the 192's as I knew it would be a long shot and didnt want to be without skis mid-winter.

supporting any new venture requires patience, if you have no patience and require instant gratification, buy your skis elsewhere. anyone whos been around here for a bit knows, most rhetoric coming out of summit county is a bunch of blathering nonsense aimed at starting flame wars.

**fatback** · 02-01-2007, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by powder11

I was stoked on getting the 192 Bro's this season and emailed Pat who couldnt guarrantee a delivery time. I really needed to have something in place by January, so I wieghed my options and decided it was best for me to wait until next year to get the 192's as I knew it would be a long shot and didnt want to be without skis mid-winter.

supporting any new venture requires patience, if you have no patience and require instant gratification, buy your skis elsewhere. anyone whos been around here for a bit knows, most rhetoric coming out of summit county is a bunch of blathering nonsense aimed at starting flame wars.

Waiting for four months shows a lack of patience?