2 ACL surgeries - same knee - should I ski again?

**woofer** · 11-15-2006, 06:14 PM

Serious internal struggle...

The facts:
Surgery 1 - 1994, torn ACL & MCL, cadaver graft. Complete recovery w/no problems at all, skiied several years on it with no complaints whatsoever.

Surgery 2 - May 2006 - torn ACL, patella tendon graft, microfracture to attempt to heal cartilege. I am currently six months out, rehabbing, feel about 80-85% w/a bad day every now and again.

Two surgeries, same knee, do I continue to do the thing I love most in this world?

**SnowTigress** · 11-15-2006, 07:09 PM

lots of people have acl recon on the same knee multiple times (more than 2 even). If it really is the thing you love the most in the world, then i think you know the answer!!

**Huckwheat** · 11-15-2006, 07:26 PM

Your going to get all YES answers from this group. I have only had one, but I learned alot during the process. Even if I had to ski mellow forever (like I did the whole season I skied without any ACL), it is still my favorite thing ever (would rather ski mellow groomers than ride my bike). I know if I blow my again, I will be back (but maybe more XC, and BC mixed in, with less and less hard charging? Dont know).

**pegleg001** · 11-15-2006, 07:33 PM

Have you ever thought about sit/mono skiing. I grew up skiing in Montana and my job took me to Florida. I ended up blowing my knee out, at least a dozen of surgeries, knee replacement and ended up with a fused left leg. I never thought I would ski again. Eagle Mount out of Bozeman, Mt was great. They worked out adapting the mono-ski to my fused leg and I was off.
I've been skiing for about 4 years now and can't get enough of it. I'm heading to Colorado the 1st week of December, Montana the last week of December and Vail for the first two weeks of January. We can ski practically anywhere an able body skier can and it's just as big of a rush, if not bigger. As one of the best mon-skiers said "Focus on what you have, not what your missing. Start with your potential, not your setback." The new Warren Miller Movie has some mono-skiing with Kevin Bramble. Good Luck!

**rideit** · 11-15-2006, 07:46 PM

Or Snowboarding...you may not want to hear it, but snowboarding is MUCH more knee friendly. I know a little bit about this...

**altagirl** · 11-15-2006, 10:08 PM

That's pretty damn inspirational, pegleg!

I've had 2 surgeries on each knee and wouldn't consider giving it up. Training more? Doing more balance work? Cutting back on doing extra stupid things? Yes. Quit?? Never.

**kipfer** · 11-15-2006, 10:27 PM

Boots that don't come all the way to your knees and skiing without a pronounced locked forward lean and bindings guaranteed to open in a backward twisting fall all might be a good idea. Otherwise, consider snowboarding. But in any case don't give up the mountains. Life is too short to give up the thing that you love most in the world.

**woofer** · 11-15-2006, 11:05 PM

Thanks to everyone that responded.

Folks like altagirl and others are proof that it is indeed possible. I'm not incredibly religious but something about skiing is so spiritual I can't even imagine life without it. Plus, it's a hell of a lot of fun.

Altagirl, do you ski with two braces?

**altagirl** · 11-15-2006, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by woofer

Thanks to everyone that responded.

Folks like altagirl and others are proof that it is indeed possible. I'm not incredibly religious but something about skiing is so spiritual I can't even imagine life without it. Plus, it's a hell of a lot of fun.

Altagirl, do you ski with two braces?

Yup. I have 2 Donjoy Defiances - painted yellow to match my dirt bike.

**Vinman** · 11-16-2006, 06:45 AM

2x Left ACL recon, 1993/1999 and just had a scope to clean up some stuff in there. From the scope found out that I have some badly degenerated articular cartilage. Bad enough that i'll likely not be doing anymore running (I have been racing triathlons for the last few years) but if I have to give up running and triathlon so that I can ski, you bet your ass I'll do it.

The sad truth of it is that no matter what you do after an ACL tear, reconstruct/ don't reconstruct, you are at a very high risk of degenerative joint changes in the future.

And so for me it comes down to a simple choice, do the things I love, take a few precautions and have my knee wear out eventually or sit on my ass get obese and die of some couch potato disease like diabetes/ heart disease with a knee that doesn't hurt.........

**GoldMember** · 11-16-2006, 11:29 AM

^^ Get the couch potato disease, get obese, and there's a good chance the knee would still hurt anyway. Extra weight and knees are a bad combination too. May as well ski and at least enjoy the passion you have for it as long as you can. At some point, you'll probably need a knee replacement but even then, you'll still probably be able to ski, just not the more difficult stuff that really stresses it.

For Woofer; try sitting home watching basketball on a couple of dreary weekends while you know others are out playing in the snow. The answer will probably become clear.

Pegleg; kudos to you! Guys like you are a great inspiration whenever I get down about some sort of piddly-assed thing that's bugging me. I have a friend who was paralyzed from about the nipple-line down a couple of years ago. He was an avid skier, biker, windboarder, and all around athlete. Now he's learning to sitski and is riding an arm-powered bike. He's also looking to try and compete in wheelchair distance races. His attitude was very dark at first but, like your quote, he's now focused on the new challenges of learning his new sports and is having a lot of fun with it. If anything like that happens to me, I can only hope to have half the positive attitudes that you guys possess. Excellent!

**Tyrone Shoelaces** · 11-16-2006, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Vinman

And so for me it comes down to a simple choice, do the things I love, take a few precautions and have my knee wear out eventually or sit on my ass get obese and die of some couch potato disease like diabetes/ heart disease with a knee that doesn't hurt.........

so you're saying you just got a new flat screen?

**Vinman** · 11-16-2006, 11:41 AM

pfft, flat screen is not in the budget right now with a 3.5 mth old. Who is doing great by the way.

Goldmember: yeah I know all too well the ramifications of knee injury. I work in the rehab/ortho field for a living. But thank for the thought, you are basically spot on.

**Arno** · 11-16-2006, 12:14 PM

why get it repaired if you aren't going to use it?

there seems to be a theme developing here...

**0BernhardFranz** · 11-17-2006, 04:52 AM

maybe cadaver was a better idea - then you had no problem !!! i feel that the many openings are really a problem I dont want to fight 2 open wounds in the upper leg and the knee
again adjoint therapy is the A & O of surgery as you can see in statistsics so do everything
and concerning your skiing:like many americans skiing without skischool which was full day 7 days for me like 70 lessons or so is a big mistake - a well trained skiier will not get a tear at all he knows what he does and does only what he can do savely

**beaterdit** · 11-19-2006, 07:36 PM

^^^
WTF???
We're trying to be serious here. You can't fix an ACL without surgery dude.

Me, I've had both ACL's done and another scope of the L knee, prolly get another scope of the L knee next summer too. Quit skiing? No way, never even considered it. Getting back on skis this season is the most important thing in my life.

**skibuminwyo** · 11-20-2006, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by 0BernhardFranz

- a well trained skiier will not get a tear at all he knows what he does and does only what he can do savely

ok........

**truth** · 11-24-2006, 12:07 AM

Of course you should keep skiing. I'll do it for as long as they can keep putting me back together.

**SnowTigress** · 12-03-2006, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by SnowTigress

lots of people have acl recon on the same knee multiple times (more than 2 even). If it really is the thing you love the most in the world, then i think you know the answer!!

funny that I was the first person to respond to your thread, because since then I have gotten an MRI done and found out that I need to go in for a second ACL recon!! Sucks big time, but I never even considered not skiing again when I heard the news from the radiologist (thanks again, buddy). My biggest concern was WHEN! I tore it playing soccer...nothing crazy, just jabbed the leg out to go for the ball and I heard a weird pop, had some swelling and didnt think anything of it. I've been running, doing stairs, hills, etc...on it for 2 months since the "pop"...no prob. Only reason I would get the surgery is to ski again.

Cadaver #2, here I come!!

Until then, I am going to TRY to ski sans ACL, but comme brace and take 'er easy. We'll see how that goes!

**altagirl** · 12-03-2006, 06:26 PM

Snowtigress - that stinks. Very sorry to hear you're going through everything again, but you'll get throug it!

Originally Posted by Vinman

And so for me it comes down to a simple choice, do the things I love, take a few precautions and have my knee wear out eventually or sit on my ass get obese and die of some couch potato disease like diabetes/ heart disease with a knee that doesn't hurt.........

I had this conversation with my PT this spring. I was having one of those moments where I said "maybe I do really need to start taking it easy". And she surprised me and said not to. That the patients she sees in the worst shape are those who decided to "be careful" (in the more drastic sense than just scaling back the really stupid stuff). The ones who start spending their lives on the sofa to make their knees feel better end up being in the worst shape of all. You lose muscle, lose motivation to do any sort of rehab or working out, and then you have a simple slip and fall accident and are in serious trouble without the muscle you need to deal with it and recover. She said the ones who never give up on the sports they love may be dealing with recurring injuries and such - but really, in the long term, they're better off.

**SnowTigress** · 12-03-2006, 07:11 PM

Thanks AG, if anyone knows, it's you! Just hate the thought of being immobile again post-op for a few weeks. That is like hell to me. But it's worth the reward for sure...gotta focus on that.

But I agree with your points above...cutting off the aggro physical activity is not going to make you better in any way. Today, upon waking up, the knee was really hurting after a 6-day work week and very little actual exercise. My PCL is taking a beating without its friend the ACL, I think... so I did my old PT routine today that I did post-surgery and hit the bike HARD. I can already feel a difference. My legs are tired, but my whole body feels amped and pain is reduced in general. Gotta love those endorphins. Not to mention the stabilizing effect of surrounding musculature.

BTW, when you got your ACL done, was there any talk of thinning/grinding of the intercondylar notch to make more room for the ACL, and hopefully minimize risk of future damage? Another mag was telling me some surgeons do this now. And I've read some articles saying it's significant.
http://ard.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/60/10/968

**altagirl** · 12-03-2006, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by SnowTigress

BTW, when you got your ACL done, was there any talk of thinning/grinding of the intercondylar notch to make more room for the ACL, and hopefully minimize risk of future damage? Another mag was telling me some surgeons do this now. And I've read some articles saying it's significant.
http://ard.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/60/10/968

Yep. With my left knee, the doc never mentioned it. But then again, maybe it went in one ear and out the other because it was my first knee surgery, or he didn't mention it, figuring I wouldn't know what it meant and didn't make any difference anyway. Or he just didn't do it. I have no idea.

With the more recent one, my surgeon did drill out the intercondylar notch. He pointed out that the bone would have been rubbing on the original ACL and with all the wear and tear I put on my knees, was probably a contributing factor to my right ACL tearing in a non-specacular fashion. (I just dabbed a foot in sand while racing my MTB). He pointed it out in the photos too, where he had drilled to make some more space.

**SnowTigress** · 12-03-2006, 07:39 PM

I know. Not sure if my original surgery had that done either. I have the surgery video, but even as a person in the medical field, I have no idea what is heads/tails! I am definitely interested to find out!
Hope your "day off" was useful to your knees!
-Y

**gh444** · 12-04-2006, 10:17 PM

it tends to be woman who have an issue with that notch.

should you ski again?
let me tell you what happens aside from the obesity and diabetes from the couch. i gave up playing football right before my senior year of college. i had just had my second ACL/Meniscus surgery on my right knee at the end of the previous season. there were many reasons that i quit but one of them was my knees. It may sound strange to this crowd but quiting football is one of my biggest regrets. for the first and only time in my life, i felt like a quiter. I let my teammates down, and I let myself down. Three years later it still fucks with me just thinking about how i quit. i'll never be able to go back and change the decision i made. I'll probably never be part of a team in that way again. I'll never forget it.
If you quit skiing, do you really want to feel this way?

-aaron

**SnowTigress** · 12-06-2006, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by gonehuckin

it tends to be woman who have an issue with that notch.

Has more to do with the shape of the notch than the gender of its bearer, from what I've read, but it is true that women are 3-8x more likely to tear acls. So maybe you're right. Sorry about your football woes, gonehuckin, but it woulda ended at some point and you prolly spared yourself some arthritis, brain cells and back pain later. Move on...
And FTR, it's womEn.