ski etiquette rant

**enlosandes** · 09-20-2006, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Patches

On a different note... how much harder is Manhattan than Manhattan Chico? I skiied Chico a few weeks ago. I had looked at the central entry to Manhattan but it was super funky (wierd misshapen runnel thing with funky snow) so I had downgraded my ambitions. Manhattan is on the list for next year, just wondering how much of a step up it is. In the conditions I experienced (rock hard snow, howling winds, continuous pelting by bits of rock & ice) even the Chico was above my comfort level.

Get some pics of the guy and post 'em!

Patches

Manhattan is a little steeper and narrower. Their are two entrances at the moment, hasn't been skiable from the top since 2002. Best to hit around 11ish once the corn cycle is in full affect.

**rideit** · 09-20-2006, 02:35 PM

Enlos, shouldn't you be out stalking for our amusement?

**enlosandes** · 09-20-2006, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by rideit

Enlos, shouldn't you be out stalking for our amusement?

No, but I will get a photo of these guys. Then you all can help with the stalking. Due to our special privileges here, I don't want to rock the boat.

**PacRimRider1** · 09-20-2006, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

11:00pm, leaving the local "Talk Like a Pirate" festivities, and some guy starts urinating in the middle of a three lane road -- fountain style.

Like laying on his back, peeing up in the air? I used to do that in the bathtub when I was a little kid.
My mom says I'm not allowed to take baths anymore.

**Mcwop** · 09-20-2006, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

aaahahhahahahahah you call that a penis? ahahahahhahahah would've been great

Ditto cubed!

**jonesy** · 09-20-2006, 03:37 PM

They're assholes and that's just the way they'll always be.
True. Yeah, when I grow up I'm going to be a huge asshole to everyone. Damn that feels good.

**Boomer28** · 09-20-2006, 04:14 PM

What a fucktard. The hippie in my says fuck 'em and know that Karama will bitch slap them down the lline. The bacon-eating man however says teach them a lesson and shit in their beds.

**upallnight** · 09-20-2006, 04:20 PM

ELA--

this seems pretty cut and dry. the guy(s) were complete morons. i'd be tempted to do the tongue-lashing, but it probably would have no effect.

i would definitely have just gotten out of their way (i'm imagining a situation where there's potential avy danger from someone coming in from above me, which is not quite the case you have here) and waited until they were far gone.

in my experience, the greater the distance from the moron, the safer i am.

here in JH, there's a fairly popular run that is accessed from a short hike. there are plenty of alternative lines, but 90% of the people that go to this area get funnelled down one of two chutes. the biggest hazard is folks skiing in above you, which happens regularly (and is why i generally avoid those spots).

sometimes, the people just honestly didn't know better and would appreciate a kind suggestion, but it souds like no matter what approach you had taken with those guys, they would have continued bad behavior.

i know you were skiing safe-zone to safe-zone (and had the added difficulty of rock-hazard), but when there's any potential of someone coming in from above and putting me in danger, i either make sure i'm the last person/party around -- or i just go non-stop and get through danger zones quickly.

hope that's the last time you have to deal with people like that.

**LeeLau** · 09-20-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by powder11

sidecountry isnt really backcountry and should be viewed as resort skiing without the control work. nobody should expect people accessing it to know what their doing. Ive seen lots of fucktards off Blackcomb sidecountry with no idea what the potential consequences could be of where they are skiing.

I think LeeLau counted a dozen or so folks leaving the BC gates who werent beeping. consider them a scary hazzard like anthing else out there.

13 of 16 skiers on top of Don't Swill had no beacons. Many of them also didn't seem to have a clue.

I did what UAN recommended and stayed well away from them.

I figured that telling people that they are clueless wasn't my business and that it would induce a negative reaction. It's not my job to be a guide or an avvy instructor.

Later that day a slope on the same aspect and elevation slid.

**upallnight** · 09-20-2006, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

I figured that telling people that they are clueless wasn't my business and that it would induce a negative reaction. It's not my job to be a guide or an avvy instructor.

agreed.

i do think that sometimes a friendly comment said with a smile will be appreciated and taken to heart, but it's pretty easy to get a read on how people will react.

i have some other friends that believe that totally embarrassing the people will make them feel stupid, and that is what will make them think the next time. i'm not sure i agree, but i do know they're "mocking" these folks more out of concern than anger. (not that the mock-ees can tell the difference.)

**alembical** · 09-20-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

I figured that telling people that they are clueless wasn't my business and that it would induce a negative reaction. It's not my job to be a guide or an avvy instructor.

The problem though is that if something bad goes down, it becomes something that we then have to be the ones to deal with. I always make it a habit of of saying what I am thinking to people in those situtations (polietly as possible). So what if I come across like an ass, when I am just trying to help? It is worth it, as there is always a chance that these are just some of the people who truely do not know better.

I would hate to think that a bad accident could have been easily avoidable... but yes, I realize that 99% of the time I just come across as an ass trying to tell other people what to or not to do. I say what I feel like I need to and then move on, at least giving me some piece of mind.

Alembical

**rideit** · 09-20-2006, 04:57 PM

hmmm. What would Trackhead do?

**upallnight** · 09-20-2006, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by alembical

The problem though is that if something bad goes down, it becomes something that we then have to be the ones to deal with. I always make it a habit of of saying what I am thinking to people in those situtations (polietly as possible). So what if I come across like an ass, when I am just trying to help? It is worth it, as there is always a chance that these are just some of the people who truely do not know better.

I would hate to think that a bad accident could have been easily avoidable... but yes, I realize that 99% of the time I just come across as an ass trying to tell other people what to or not to do. I say what I feel like I need to and then move on, at least giving me some piece of mind.

Alembical

i think you need to do whatever will enable you to sleep best at the end of the day. that said, if your ultimate goal is to educate people so they can make better choices the next time around (and not become your burden), what's the best way to reach them?

sometimes i stop and ask myself that question before reacting...if i'm good. if not, i just react and may hamper getting the best outcome for all.

**bbirtle** · 09-20-2006, 05:13 PM

Now don't get me wrong, I've been in this situation and went ballistic myself but here's another idea:

"So we were at the top of the skin track when two retards caught up and passed us in the couloir on the way down. Passed us WAY too close, so we told him off a little and then..."

... and then went on with our merry lives enjoying the nice sunny day and fresh snow.

Forget all this stalking man, it's lame. Just enjoy the snow and try to avoid the retards and if they get in the way, tell them to fuck off or whatever and keep riding.

**rideit** · 09-20-2006, 05:15 PM

I think it's a ton o' fun, personally.

**LeeLau** · 09-20-2006, 05:28 PM

I'll say something if unsafe behaviour affects me or my touring partners.

Otherwise I know its a copout on my part but 99% of the time I say nothing. I'll say something the 1% of the time when its an obvious mistake - like someone tied into a harness by the gear loop for example.

Even when I see something really dumb like someone jumping a cornice on a hot spring day and the buddy below the cornice sitting down taking pictures (true story), I stay far far away and say nothing.

If there's an injury or a rescue situation then I'll help as long as its safe for me to do so. That's my personal belief there that it's ones duty to do so on the basis that it could be me one day.

I almost always do have a cheery "How's it going?" and will gladly volunteer relevant information about local observations depending on reaction.

Anyhow, I don't disagree with what you're doing and I do think its good of you do to so but my personal opinion is that it's not up to me to educate total strangers.

Originally Posted by alembical

The problem though is that if something bad goes down, it becomes something that we then have to be the ones to deal with. I always make it a habit of of saying what I am thinking to people in those situtations (polietly as possible). So what if I come across like an ass, when I am just trying to help? It is worth it, as there is always a chance that these are just some of the people who truely do not know better.

I would hate to think that a bad accident could have been easily avoidable... but yes, I realize that 99% of the time I just come across as an ass trying to tell other people what to or not to do. I say what I feel like I need to and then move on, at least giving me some piece of mind.

Alembical

**alembical** · 09-20-2006, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

I'll say something if unsafe behaviour affects me or my touring partners.
...
Anyhow, I don't disagree with what you're doing and I do think its good of you do to so but my personal opinion is that it's not up to me to educate total strangers.

LL,

I agree too. I guess it just depends on the circumstances and my read on the indivudals. That said though, if I can do anything to avoid having to deal with a rescue situation it is probably worth it for me. I would absolutely hate to have to dig a body out and do CPR and try to hopelessly revive some dead person.

Alembical

**bcd** · 09-20-2006, 08:10 PM

I've only had one negative encounter in the backcountry (more sidecountry, I suppose). After trying to talk to the guy and drop subtle hints that he was being a dick, he got pissed and yelled at us. It sounds like something similar happened to you. You tried to talk to the guy, he realized he was at fault and got defensive because he CERTAINLY wasn't going to apologize or correct his actions.

I wasn't really interested in any sort of confrontation or argument so I gave him something along the lines of:
"It's obvious that you don't do this very often, so let me explain something to you. In the future, you're gonna get a lot of fuckin' attitude and disrespect from a LOT of people if you continue to pull shit like this.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just giving you a heads up for the future"

and we continued about our business.

This particular "backcountry" is made easier by the use of a car shuttle. And after returning to my house for a lunch break, we headed back up to he trailhead for another lap. Along the way up there we see the perpetrator on the side of the road, hitch hiking back up to retrieve his car. So my buddy slows down and pulls over, leading the guy to believe we are picking him up. He looks at us and starts removing his pack, thinking "sweet, a ride!" and I rolled down the window and flipped him a nice, slow middle finger as we drove by.

**skifasttakechances** · 09-20-2006, 08:30 PM

reminds me kind of all the olderly people who meander through the killington terrain parks. espicially the big park at bear.. sweet cheeba that place is an acident waiting to happen. i politly told alot of people of the danger of being in there, stoping where they do and i get basicly told i have the right to be on this trail as much as you..

**iceman** · 09-20-2006, 08:31 PM

I love stories with happy endings. Actually I just love happy endings.

But I'm left wondering what you thought you accomplished with the finger. Just move the fuck on. Or blow the dude away, leaving his body twitching in the ditch. Anything in between is stupid.

**PNWbrit** · 09-20-2006, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by skifasttakechances

all the olderly people who meander through the killington terrain parks.

Kindly define olderly? Do you mean like their twenties or just late teens?

**enlosandes** · 09-21-2006, 10:47 AM

So far I have found out that his name is Tim and he is from Aspen. Hope to get a picture tomorrow when skiing is back on.

**rideit** · 09-21-2006, 12:18 PM

yes.....

**Tippster** · 09-21-2006, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by iceman

I love stories with happy endings. Actually I just love happy endings.

But I'm left wondering what you thought you accomplished with the finger. Just move the fuck on. Or blow the dude away, leaving his body twitching in the ditch. Anything in between is stupid.

Sweeping the knee leaves you cold, eh?