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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Wilson, Wyo.
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    3,965
    Quote Originally Posted by Squatch
    ...
    I don't agree with all of what squatch says -- and he freely admits he wants and needs to learn more through classes & field experience/mentoring -- but I think he's reasonably sharp and at least *thinking* about this stuff...drawing parallels (not minimizing the risk/danger) and questioning concepts. To me, that questioning is pretty critical to learning, so I think he's starting on a good path.

    Just my $0.02.

    Keep it alive.

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    not far from snowbird
    Posts
    2,245
    Quote Originally Posted by upallnight

    (not that asking him to name whether he's done any of the n face routes is tantamount to spraying, but it seems like the whole touchiness was set off by the use of the word 'tourist'.)

    even TH recognizes that the E face route was done first, way back in the day.

    UAN, this is not directed at you but more of a general statement and in response to spoode.


    just to join the shit show of off topic posts, anyone who's seen the teton range knows that buck has some fully involved lines on the mountain. imo, the east face was done first b/c of its visibility, location and relative ease of descent. if this is directed toward the tourists, then it is probably welcomed information. if it is a prod to raise someones self esteem..... yeah we know, water is still wet.


    why does it matter which line is more respected by some guy with a guide book or someone who'd done them all for that matter. some people skied a line and shared their experince with others who mostly seemed to enjoy that they did. if you can't respect that, then you shouldn't be reading the net but rather out doing whatever you need to make yourself feel bigger and more bad than the next ego stepping stone.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by upallnight
    gotta defend spoooooood here (in his intial post...it went downhill from there). he never said he did any routes...merely stated what they are (considered), and apparently it struck a chord.

    besides, there's a pretty well-established history in the tetons of not spraying, that may or may not be as true elsewhere.

    (not that asking him to name whether he's done any of the n face routes is tantamount to spraying, but it seems like the whole touchiness was set off by the use of the word 'tourist'.)

    even TH recognizes that the E face route was done first, way back in the day.
    Thanks Upallnight.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze
    UAN, this is not directed at you but more of a general statement and in response to spoode.


    just to join the shit show of off topic posts, anyone who's seen the teton range knows that buck has some fully involved lines on the mountain. imo, the east face was done first b/c of its visibility, location and relative ease of descent. if this is directed toward the tourists, then it is probably welcomed information. if it is a prod to raise someones self esteem..... yeah we know, water is still wet.


    why does it matter which line is more respected by some guy with a guide book or someone who'd done them all for that matter. some people skied a line and shared their experince with others who mostly seemed to enjoy that they did. if you can't respect that, then you shouldn't be reading the net but rather out doing whatever you need to make yourself feel bigger and more bad than the next ego stepping stone.
    You are reading way too much into this.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ootarded
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    2,905
    Quote Originally Posted by spoood
    Where did I say I was a "playa"? No where.
    Quote Originally Posted by spoood
    Hate the game, not the player.
    Quote Originally Posted by spoood
    All said was the east face of Buck was the tourist route which is what it is. You might want to work your insecurities out somewhere else other than the internet.
    Really, I could care less about Buck Mtn other than wanting to ski it sometime, whatever face a loser like myself would find most interesting.

    Speaking of reading way too much into other people's posts, you were the one insinuating that I was spraying about "being too good for avalanche class," seems you're the one coming across with the insecure vibe.

    And UAN, nice of you get your fellow Teton-er's back and all, but really the spoood doood's attitoood is just tooo croood and roood if you review his grand total of what - 17 posts.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    SE Alaska
    Posts
    11,693
    Quote Originally Posted by gramps
    The statistic I've heard is that a full 50% of avalanche fatalities are due to trauma. If I remember right you don't wear a helmet for most of the touring you do.
    Got a new 10 ounce helmet. And I think the trauma statistics are 30% die from trauma.

    Anyway, I'm buying one. I won't use it all the time. But it doesn't matter what I'm getting, this is a discussion about the product itself.

    Summit, the cost is high. But think about a beacon. It's simple electronics for over $300. I agree the cost is high on the pack, but I can work 12 hours of OT and have plenty of money to buy one. That's one 12 hour shift. No big deal for me. For an $8/hr ski shop employee, it might be a different story.

    STOP THE DICK WAVING BUCK MTN BANTER-WHO GIVES A FUCK

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    5,573
    I've learned something from this thread, I'm going to nursing school.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    SE Alaska
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    11,693
    Quote Originally Posted by flykdog
    I've learned something from this thread, I'm going to nursing school.
    Might I suggest x-ray tech. Easiest job in healthcare.

    Go to Weber, it's in your neck of the woods.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    5,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Trackhead
    Might I suggest x-ray tech. Easiest job in healthcare.

    Go to Weber, it's in your neck of the woods.
    I've actually looked into x-ray tech, and I get 4(?) free credit hours every semester at WSU for having medic students ride along with us. But it'd be for after retirement. I freaking love my job and it's hard to beat working 10 days a month.

    Sorry for the thread hi-jack.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
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    17,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Trackhead
    Summit, the cost is high. But think about a beacon. It's simple electronics for over $300.
    My SOS-F1ND was $180 new

    I agree the cost is high on the pack, but I can work 12 hours of OT and have plenty of money to buy one. That's one 12 hour shift. No big deal for me. For an $8/hr ski shop employee, it might be a different story.
    I did that math... ($1200/12/1.5) the rest of us mortals don't make $60/hr (120K/yr on a 40hr workweek). Can I kill you and take your job? Can I at least have some money? I'll pay you back I swear! No wonder you are gung ho about these uber expensive gadgets.

    The $8/hr ski shop employee needs 100 hours of OVERTIME to get the Escape 30L /w cannisters (not counting payroll taxes).

    In Colorado terms, one of those packs costs as much as 2 weeks of skiing and lodging at Silverton, or season passes to Winter Park, Copper Mountain, Loveland, Vail, Beaver Creek, Keystone, Breckenridge, Arapahoe Basin, and Eudora with money left over for a 4-pack to Aspen, Crested Butte or Steamboat.

    On a carefull budget you could get an entire touring setup: skis, boots, touring bindings, skins, beacon, shovel, probe, pack, an Avi 1 class, and maybe an avalung too for the same price of just an ABS pack system.
    Last edited by Summit; 08-27-2006 at 03:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate
    Whatever happened to MtnLion's potential prodeal (or used deal) on the ABS packs?

    odds are I'll know for sure in under 5 days ....

    IF IT HAPPENS...... (and I think it will)

    guide size ones for $400 or less

    guest size ones for $300 or less.



    I'm not sure if I'll ski on hill with one, might keep one around for the bit of touring I do.... Just another tool to help you (like knowledge, beacon, helmet, release bindings etc)


  12. #87
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    British Alberlumbia
    Posts
    1,354
    Quote Originally Posted by gramps
    The statistic I've heard is that a full 50% of avalanche fatalities are due to trauma.
    I've heard 32 %.
    Try this for that stat & many more which might also have some connection to this thread: http://204.174.223.43/avalanche/accident/trends.html
    "if it's called tourist season, why can't we just shoot them?"

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    918
    These extra pieces of safety equipment are a funny thing, it's such a personal decision as to whether or not to buy in.

    I'll be honest, I've heard of these backpacks for a few years, and I always thought of them as kind of a European gimmick, not really suited for backcountry touring. But I guess it does have a couple big things going for it as compared to the Avalung (which I don't use, partly because of these reasons): You almost always are wearing your pack, whereas you've got to keep the Avalung on your outside layer, which makes it inconvenient when you're layering up and down, it seems like most people just keep it in their pack on the uphill. Personally, with the exposed steep skintracks we often lay around here, I'm more worried on the uphill sometimes. (The new avalung backpack has solved this one) Second, it's easy to pull a ripcord, not so easy to put and keep a tube in your mouth during an avalanche.

    This is a good thread, it definitely has me questioning the way I think about this stuff. (no helmet, no avalung has been my choice) I'd be a lot more inclined to go for the Avalung backpack than this ABS pack though. It seems like they both accomplish the same thing, but the Avalung pack is a lot cheaper and lighter. Why bother with the ABS? Assuming you have competent partners to find you and rescue you of course. Solo, the ABS would be the obvious choice.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    7,253
    i agree with summit, the cost seems unreasonably high. the argument that "is your life worth X dollars?" is besides the point. if the packs were $10,000 you could still make the same argument. it's more of a question of "am i getting my asshole reemed when i buy this?" i just don't see where the real value is in these packs. fear sells.

    i would love to have one, but for the current price i would rather just say "i'm not going today". saves me $1200 and i keeps me 100% safe.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wilson, Wyo.
    Posts
    3,965
    Quote Originally Posted by gramps
    These extra pieces of safety equipment are a funny thing, it's such a personal decision as to whether or not to buy in.

    I'll be honest, I've heard of these backpacks for a few years, and I always thought of them as kind of a European gimmick, not really suited for backcountry touring. But I guess it does have a couple big things going for it as compared to the Avalung (which I don't use, partly because of these reasons): You almost always are wearing your pack, whereas you've got to keep the Avalung on your outside layer, which makes it inconvenient when you're layering up and down, it seems like most people just keep it in their pack on the uphill. Personally, with the exposed steep skintracks we often lay around here, I'm more worried on the uphill sometimes. (The new avalung backpack has solved this one) Second, it's easy to pull a ripcord, not so easy to put and keep a tube in your mouth during an avalanche.

    This is a good thread, it definitely has me questioning the way I think about this stuff. (no helmet, no avalung has been my choice) I'd be a lot more inclined to go for the Avalung backpack than this ABS pack though. It seems like they both accomplish the same thing, but the Avalung pack is a lot cheaper and lighter. Why bother with the ABS? Assuming you have competent partners to find you and rescue you of course. Solo, the ABS would be the obvious choice.
    i agree with much of your logic, gramps (i've been considering an avalung for years but just haven't gotten one...and i own a helmet but rarely wear it)...except for one: the ABS and the avalung accomplish the same thing in a broad sense (you are more likely to survive), but while the avalung buys you time, the ABS presumably means burial time is no longer a factor.

    (i'm certain you already know that, just clarifying for those reading the thread in the future.)

    anyway, i'm unlikely to buy an ABS pack this year, but if they sold a cannister to add to an existing pack (or improved the pack design + lowered the cost), i'd consider it. i'll keep my eye on it for the future.

    oh...one more point: the folks i know that do use avalungs (generally guides) tell me that it really isn't that hard to get the tube in your mouth -- seems to me it would be tough, but that isn't their (first-hand) experience. the skeptic in me imagines a rip cord flopping around and being tough to grab with gloves...or the pack getting ripped from your back pretty quick. 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other?

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    SE Alaska
    Posts
    11,693
    Too bad Black Diamond doesn't put some R&D into this ABS stuff. They are so creative, I bet they could come up with a more functional, lighter product.

    When I get mine, anyone in Utah is welcome to use it for a day, or just check it out. I'll let you know when I have it.

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
    Posts
    10,755
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit
    a probe can keep a beacon + shovel from being purely corpse location/retreival devices... real pinpoint
    Ive always subscibed to the probes find people beacons tell you where to probe school of thought.
    As for the abs pack its seems like good tecnology that will only get better and cheaper. I dont really see getting one this season ,will have to be content w/ my touring decisions and skills of my partners. I would guess they have a fairly stong patent or BD would be looking into making there own. Avalung and Abs in a intergrated pack would be sweet. Under $$$ 200 would be even sweeter.
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    178
    Sooner or later I will buy one. Maybe this season.

  19. #94
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    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
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