The chainsaw thread...

[Meadow Skipper]

Are there any benefits to a longer bar if the trees you're cutting aren't going to be very thick i.e. lodgepole pines?

Depending on what kind of cutting you're doing you might not have to bend over as much or as far to buck and limb. But you have to keep a watchful eye out on the tip when it's sticking way out past the wood.

...this hot chick at a forestry company ...

I'm having a little cognitive dissonance issue over that, but of course the farther into the woods you go, the prettier the same girl gets.

Can one get a single, stout 'head unit' (motor) and switch blade lengths, chain configuratins, etc, easily?

Is there a 'switchblade' saw, that is worthy, and not a gimmicky P.O.S.?

Would such a saw be desireable, if it is not easily findable?

(Jong thoughts, I know...)

I'm not sure what a 'switchblade saw' is. but you can swap out bar/chain combos pretty easily with most any saws...for certain values of 'easily.'

[rbtree]

A longer bar (24" +) is heavier and slower chain speed ie slower cut. 20" is pretty much stock and good all around. Some say if you have 'skip tooth' chain you can get high chain speed too because of less weight of chain but you have 1/2 the cutting surface. You can cut stumps nice and low with 20" and not have to bend over too much.

For fire wood you could go with 16" bar, full house chain. Noticeable difference in cut time.

Not much of what you say is right....

Ummm, bar length has nothing to do with chain speed. What will affect it is sprocket teeth count. A stock 460 can handle an 8 tooth sprocket in hardwoods with bar lengths of about 24 inch and under. Most all stock saws, save perhaps 90 cc saws and up, come stock with a 7 tooth sprocket, and run 3/8th pitch chain.

The other thing that affects chain speed is rpm in the wood. Most stock saws turn about 10,000 rpm under load. My fully woods modded saws have a broader power band with more torque, and may pull a bit more rpm in the cut. They also have 40-60% more power than stock saws.

"Full house" refers to a cutter every drive link. No stock chain come this way. "Full comp" is the correct term. I run full comp on 16-24" bars, semi-skip on 24-28", and full skip on 28-72" bars. There is a carbide tipped chain for firefighters that as a cutter every drive link.

Also, the fastest chain usually is full comp, if the saw has enough power to pull it, as it has a bit more drag that full skip. Full skip is best for long bars in softwoods, as the chips are cleared more easily. Most of us west coast cutters like skip as it is faster to sharpen-less cutters.

Also, if you're cutting a stump low, bar length is irrelevant as to how much you have to bend over. I'm usually down on my knees for stump cuts.

go to youtube and type in my user name for a bunch of videos of cutting with some mighty fast saws,, and doing real tree work.

[rbtree]

I am amazed that this thread has such legs...and I still haven't found the perfect saw.
I am workin on a trail design project here in the Ruby Mountains (NV), where saw needs are very different in the Big Hole's/Tetons...here, everything is basically 12" or less, suitable for a lightweight, nimble, short length saw.

Can one get a single, stout 'head unit' (motor) and switch blade lengths, chain configuratins, etc, easily?

Is there a 'switchblade' saw, that is worthy, and not a gimmicky P.O.S.?

Would such a saw be desireable, if it is not easily findable?

(Jong thoughts, I know...)

rideit, pm me and I'll fix ya up! Basically, get a Husqvarna 346XP New Edition, and have one of my builders mod it for ya. Then, it'll pull a 20 inch chain with authority. One local Wa logger has one, and is testing it with a 28 inch bar for limbing, so as to not have to bend over. apparantly, it's working out just fine! Your total cost would be close to $700 with shipping and mod costs.

Or, you can run the 346 stock, (my supplier will sell me one for $325, mail order) it will pull an 18 inch bar with ease...just use .325 Stihl full chisel chain. A 16 inch bar is still the best for it, and perfect for you. The new version has 5 more cc's, and has more power and lower rpm power band than the higher revving old 346. Heck, I don't even have one yet, and I have OCGD (Obsessive compulsive gear disorder---tree climbing and chain saw related, well cameras too--and to a lesser degree lately skiing) Supposedly the 346 is about as good as my 2 Dolmar 5100S saws, and lighter. You can see videos of me running my modded one with a tuned pipe at my youtube page (rbtree)

[Sparky]

You can't go wrong with Husqvarna or Sthil.

Sorry not read all the thread but, I wouldn't run a 20" bar & chain as standard unless I was always into big trees, just keep a big bar handy for when you need it. The 346 repalced the 254 (i think) which a lot of pro cutters will tell you was one of the best saws ever made. I ran mine with a 13" bar & chain, and by fuck it had awesome power... pocket rocket

[wicked_sick]

I haven't any recommendations.

I just wanted to say I've got a 24 year old Jonsered 820 that's been used very heavily over its lifetime, and it's still going strong. All it needs is chain oil, the odd tune up and a strong back. (thing is heavy)

and at 82cc it'll honk through just about anything, sharp chain or not.

[rbtree]

Actually, the 346 replaced the 242, which I never had the pleasure of running--it was a tad smaller displacement and even higher rpm that the14,700 peak rpm 346 old edition.

The 257, and later the 357XP replaced the 254. I had a 154, same as the 254 pretty mcuch, which was awesome in its day. I now run a woods ported 357XP, which will walk all over a stock 460 Stihl, 440, or a 372 Husky.

[rbtree]

I haven't any recommendations.

I just wanted to say I've got a 24 year old Jonsered 820 that's been used very heavily over its lifetime, and it's still going strong. All it needs is chain oil, the odd tune up and a strong back. (thing is heavy)

and at 82cc it'll honk through just about anything, sharp chain or not.

Hah, I had a Jonsy 920 Super , loved it..but replaced it with my first 066 Magnum Stihl, which was lighter and faster. Traded the 920 for a woods port job on my 3120 Husky...which now prolly is putting out in the neighborhood of 13 horsepower! Love running it with a 9 tooth sprocket and 20 inch bar, whichI only do for fun or at logging shows--- I once got to run that combo with a friend's race chain.....now that was some speed! gotta get a a couple race chains made for different saws...but they cost at least $150 to have made.

I just got the only Jonsered that I've had in years, a little climbing saw,same as my Husky 338's....love the red and black!

[Grange]

My new chainsaw!



I looked at the Husqvarna 455 rancher, but liked the Stihl better. A little more power and it felt better. Price was about the same and I really like Stihl.

Not as powerfull as the 310 my father has, but it should work well enough for me. I stuck with the 16 inch bar because I just felt more comfortable with it over the 18 inch bar. I'll have to bend over a little more when cutting, but I like the way it swings better than with the 18 inch bar.

Now all I need is the permit from the forest service and I'm good to go.

[carpathian]

Is this chain a 'full comp'. I can't tell And the cutting pitch seems all weird.

[Big E]

I picked up a Stihl 290 a few months ago, and I've been fairly pleased. Only thing I've noticed is that after I've been running it for a bit and I put it down to move some stuff around or whatever, it likes to die if I let it idle for too long. And sometimes, it is a bitch to start - seems like there's so much compression that it's hard to overcome it with the pull chain. Then, next pull, it will fire right up. Any ideas?

A guy that was sposed to be milling this tree I had to cut up showed up with his Stihl MS880 w/ 48" bar

[Rideski]

^ sic photos...

[khakis]

rbtree or others: any recommendations of places in the lower 48 to send saws to get modded? I could do muffler mods myself but what else do they do? Port/polish? Re-jet? We have a Stihl 021 that's getting pretty tired and a 260 that doesn't feel as strong as it once did. Thinking that rather than just take them in for a tune-up (What do they even do? Clean carb and sharpen chain?) I could have them turned up a bit as well.

BTW love the 260, good power/balance/weight tradeoffs. Bought it on the testimonial that it's the saw of choice of many power line crews (16" bar cutting from a cherry picker) and even with a 20" bar it's tough to make it bog down. Was really happy to have it after Katrina!

[Meadow Skipper]

Chainsaws?

Nice pics MT.

These make me want to start a discussion on the virtues of the Humboldt undercut:





And this one makes me go WTF?!?! Glad you (or whoever) survived that shitshow, it looks like that burned-thu snag is about to stomp a mud-puddle in your/his chest:




^Just plain cool.

[Meadow Skipper]

I picked up a Stihl 290 a few months ago, and I've been fairly pleased. Only thing I've noticed is that after I've been running it for a bit and I put it down to move some stuff around or whatever, it likes to die if I let it idle for too long. And sometimes, it is a bitch to start - seems like there's so much compression that it's hard to overcome it with the pull chain. Then, next pull, it will fire right up. Any ideas?

Check the carb fuel mix:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=86420

[shirk]

I'll throw out some love for the Stihl 260.

I worked groundsman with a climber for almost a year and we use the 260 daily for almost 90% of our work. He climbed with one and I worked the ground trimming with one. We beat on them pretty hard in everything from major rain to slush and snow and they never skipped a beat. Kept them oil'd gas'd and sharp and they never let us down.

[nick > jesus]

I ran a stihl 290 most of the summer. I liked it, good weight, lacked some power on bigger trees and i had some issues with vapor lock when it was super hot out. But, it had way less problems than a husky i used a little bit

[boredboiseboy]

Not much of what you say is right....

Ummm, bar length has nothing to do with chain speed. What will affect it is sprocket teeth count. A stock 460 can handle an 8 tooth sprocket in hardwoods with bar lengths of about 24 inch and under. Most all stock saws, save perhaps 90 cc saws and up, come stock with a 7 tooth sprocket, and run 3/8th pitch chain.

What? the circumfrance is shorter on a smaller bar, which means it will travel around the bar faster for any given RPM. Ive also used 460s with 8 drivers on hardwoods with no issue either.

[quote]
"Full house" refers to a cutter every drive link. No stock chain come this way. "Full comp" is the correct term. I run full comp on 16-24" bars, semi-skip on 24-28", and full skip on 28-72" bars. [quote]
Huh? most saws come stock with full comp saftey chain. Full comp is better for nonprofessional use since it doesn't kick back as much as semi/full skip chain.

Also, the fastest chain usually is full comp, if the saw has enough power to pull it, as it has a bit more drag that full skip. Full skip is best for long bars in softwoods, as the chips are cleared more easily. Most of us west coast cutters like skip as it is faster to sharpen-less cutters.

On almost every saw I have ran, full skip cuts faster. It really has more to do with square vs round vs chipper cutters than how many there is.

Also, if you're cutting a stump low, bar length is irrelevant as to how much you have to bend over. I'm usually down on my knees for stump cuts.

A longer bar=less double cutting...and if your not logging, why cut low stumps anyways?

[boredboiseboy]

My buddy was running his 460 with a 16" bar for a while. Super high chainspeed and light weight. He decided it was dangerous though and it minimized reach so he back with 20" bar.

Its kinda silly to run a 460 with anything less than a 28" dont you think?

[rbtree]

[QUOTE=boredboiseboy;1991778]What? the circumfrance is shorter on a smaller bar, which means it will travel around the bar faster for any given RPM. Ive also used 460s with 8 drivers on hardwoods with no issue either.

[quote]
"Full house" refers to a cutter every drive link. No stock chain come this way. "Full comp" is the correct term. I run full comp on 16-24" bars, semi-skip on 24-28", and full skip on 28-72" bars.

Huh? most saws come stock with full comp saftey chain. Full comp is better for nonprofessional use since it doesn't kick back as much as semi/full skip chain.

On almost every saw I have ran, full skip cuts faster. It really has more to do with square vs round vs chipper cutters than how many there is.

A longer bar=less double cutting...and if your not logging, why cut low stumps anyways?

A few things......

Bar length has nothing to do with chain speed, which is determined by the sprocket count, chain pitch, and operating rpm......If you are running that 460 as it came stock, and it is less than 6-7 years old, it will be faster with a 7 tooth sprocket on any bar over 25 inches....all recent stock Stihls are gutless till the horribly restricted mufflers are ported...and they run hot and won't last as they should--all thanks too the EPA and their crap regulations. Because of them, I'm stocking up on saws, as by 2010, saws as we know them will be dinosaurs.

Chipper chain (fully rounded cutters) is a thing of the past. Semi-chisel is the term for today's slightly rounded cutters. Chisel comes square or round filed, square being about 8% faster. Full skip is only faster on long bars in softwood, as the cutter configuration aids in chip clearance. This point is confirmed by saw racers who use full comp. Full skip could be a tad faster for small underpowered saws as it takes a bit less hp to spin it....but small saws shouldn't be running anything over 20 inch bars......and usually .325 pitch chain.


Oh, and we do residential tree work, which includes logging. So, we cut low stumps...as in all the way down.....to save stump grinder work, or cause the customer wants them that way.....or we leave wildlife snags....

[rbtree]

Some of da quiver....and crew....Cowboy Dave on the right....faster than me, and the best and fastest arborist at removals I've ever seen, and I've worked with a couple of world champion arborists......Mickey in the middle, a stellar arborist at working on a rope...the best pruner I've ever had....and Herb, the sad faced customer, who spent nearly $20,000 to cut these trees down and re landscape, all because he cut a few roots (te trees weren't his) to build his garage. The three lombardy poplars were in Ballard, 148 feet tall, 6 to 7 feet on the butt, 20 feet between the houses....some of the most technical work we've done of late.



Here's a link to a slide show of the whole job...it wuz fun!!!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbtree/...51192509/show/

[rbtree]

Its kinda silly to run a 460 with anything less than a 28" dont you think?

Nope it isn't......all depends on wood sizes. Most of us westcoasters run long bars....loggers especially, don't want to be bending over bucking or bumping knots. Easterners typically run shorter bars, cutting predominately hardwood, which require much less tedious limbing of multiple small branches as do conifers.

Personally, as I climb, I like relatively short bars and light, woods modded saws in a tree. My ported 346 and 5100S Dolmars (both in the same class as the venerable 026/260 Stihl, but a lot better saws) will keep up with stock saws 2 pounds heavier (044 441 class saws)

I've run my woods ported 3120, which is putting out in the neigborhood of 13 horsepower, with a 20 inch bar and 9 tooth sprocket at some logging shows. That's fast, but if I had a race chain, it'd be 30% faster!!

Here we were taking a failed hemlock off a deck...and I'm playing with the little Dolmar, shortly after I had it ported, and was running it on a pipe!

won't embed?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWm-GFbAHMk

[khakis]

rbtree or others: any recommendations of places in the lower 48 to send saws to get modded? I could do muffler mods myself but what else do they do? Port/polish? Re-jet? We have a Stihl 021 that's getting pretty tired and a 260 that doesn't feel as strong as it once did. Thinking that rather than just take them in for a tune-up (What do they even do? Clean carb and sharpen chain?) I could have them turned up a bit as well.

..........

[RootSkier]

what the holy fuck?!?!?!

[rbtree]

He's getting ready to beat feet outta there....the burned snag will push the one he's cutting.

The fella who helped me fall the pecker pole 2/3 through this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2wMdGPEPfc used to be a hotshot. USFS Class C Certified by the man himself D Dougas Dent who wrote "Professional Timber Falling" Now he's an arborist/logger/trainer---who shoulda gone down to Baton Rouge last week to do hurricane work. I know companies there making upwards of 30,000 a day there right now. We're too busy to go, but I'd have liked to.

[rbtree]

..........

A muffler mod is plenty for most occasional saw users....It will perk up a saw by as much as 40% in reduced cut times....but the carb will need readjusting.

Woods porting invloves decking the cylinder to reduce squish and increase compression, increasing the intake, exhaust and transfer ports (some or all) carefully, perhaps carb and timing changes.....cost normally $250 and up.

Go to arboristsite.com, racesaws.com, and chainsawperformance.com to read scads of stuff and find some builders.....