Lower volume AT boots

[janus]

Ok, I've done a search but only came up with Low volume DH boots. My DH boots are Lange's, I'm in need of some AT boots. It's hard to find a shop in Australia who stock a selection, can anyone help me with what brand would be my best bet? Also, I'm on a 27.5 boot, will this translate to a 27.5 AT boot fit?

Cheers.

[upallnight]

This sounded somewhat familiar to a thread from a month or two ago...so I searched.

AT boots for someone who likes langes?

I remember typing some posts with decent info as a starting point...at least on that thread.

[janus]

thanks

[janus]

damn, I've been told that Garmont make a wider shaped boot, whereas there's contradictory info saying they're thinner.. and I thought scarpa were thinner than Garmont, but I've read info stating the opposite on that too.

I guess my best options are either the Scarpa Denali TT, or the Garmont Adrenalines or Endorphins.. fuck it's hard to know when you can't try em on, and it's a shitload of cash to drop on a guess.

[upallnight]

damn, I've been told that Garmont make a wider shaped boot, whereas there's contradictory info saying they're thinner.. and I thought scarpa were thinner than Garmont, but I've read info stating the opposite on that too.

I guess my best options are either the Scarpa Denali TT, or the Garmont Adrenalines or Endorphins.. fuck it's hard to know when you can't try em on, and it's a shitload of cash to drop on a guess.

In my experience, Garmont MegaRides are lower volume than my old (red/red) Denalis.

You should definitely put thermo liners in whatever boot you get.

Getting foreign goods into Oz sucks...I feel for you! (But I loved living there)

[El Chupacabra]

Ok, I've done a search but only came up with Low volume DH boots. My DH boots are Lange's, I'm in need of some AT boots. It's hard to find a shop in Australia who stock a selection, can anyone help me with what brand would be my best bet? Also, I'm on a 27.5 boot, will this translate to a 27.5 AT boot fit?

Cheers.

FWIW, I don't fit in Langes at all; my feet are sort of triangular (wide at the ball, narrow heel). Salomon and Tecnica DH boots fit me the best. I have Scarpa Denali TT for AT boots; the fit is similar to the Salomons.

I use a 27.5 DH boot (actually 27.0 for the Salomons currently, but it's the same shell as the 27.5), and bought a 27.5 Scarpa Denali. The fore-aft sizing is about the same, but the Denali has higher up-down space -- I haven't used the Denalis much, but as they pack out, I'll need to add a boot board under the liner to take up some vertical space in that boot.

Note: IIRC, I think Scarpa splits their shell sizes on the whole size rather than the half size; e.g., the 27.5 and 28.0 shells are identical shells (vs. Salomon's 27.0 and 27.5 are identical shells). I could be totally wrong on this though, but you should check before you buy.

[awf170]

I guess my best options are either the Scarpa Denali TT, or the Garmont Adrenalines or Endorphins.. fuck it's hard to know when you can't try em on, and it's a shitload of cash to drop on a guess.

G-rides and mega-rides have a lower volume fit then the adrenalines and the endorphins.

[kidwoo]

G-rides and mega-rides have a lower volume fit then the adrenalines and the endorphins.

Yeah I'm not sure I'd call the adrenalines I have low volume. My feet look like they've been broken up by a hammer (close to reality) and they actually fit me really well. I cooked an intution liner for them though. But with the same liner I could never get a pair of lowas to fit after I mangled my feet/ankles. Lowas aren't cool anymore though.

[FrankZappa]

My low volume/high arch foot was swiming all over in the Scarpa Lasers. The Dynafit Megarides fit great, although they get soft (tounge) in the spring when it warms up. Am looking for a stiffer tounge.
I sized them (Megas) too small the first time (by the recommended guidlines) & had to return for a half size up. Just didn't feel like I would get away from mashing the end of my toes, esp hike/kicking steps. Fit great after the first home-cook.
BTW I have 2 diff size feet: 8 & 8.5. so I went with the 8.5 in the end. The smaller foot is still noticable in slop, even after the cook, but way better than the Scarpas.

[AltaPowderDaze]

the denali has a wider toe box than the garmont megaride but is still narrower than the scarpa matrix. size the i like to size my boots small to the point that they are borderline painful when trying them on in the store. actually they just fit super tight. within 20 tours you'll have noticeable slop if you don't do this. one of the guys i tour with bought 28.5 that fit pretty snug and had to buy 28.0 within about a month. i'd also recommend a "half bake" on your liners, even if done at the store. lightly baking them allows the liner to conform to the nasty bumps on your jacked up foot while keeping the volume that you'll need for use over the next 2 years. the liner will thermo itself the rest of the way over the next weeks worth of hiking.


btw, on the 05-06 model the garmont megaride fixed that soft tounge problem. they are in the same range as the denali now.

[AltaPowderDaze]

Also, I'm on a 27.5 boot, will this translate to a 27.5 AT boot fit?

Cheers.

i'm a medium to low vol foot w/ a high arch that fits both megarides and delanis. if the megaride had a slightly wider toe box, like the salomon x wave 10.0, it'd be perfect for me. i wear an 11.5 us street shoe, 28.0 in the salomon (performance fit), a 28.0 in the megaride (performance), and a 28.5 in the denali (comfort fit).

[upallnight]

btw, on the 05-06 model the garmont megaride fixed that soft tounge problem. they are in the same range as the denali now.

I have a different experience on that. The Denali silver TT/XT tongue is much stiffer than the buttery stock 05-06 MegaRide tongue.

The 05-06 MegaRide tongue is more akin to the old (red) Denali tongue...maybe even a little softer. I've since replaced the tongue with a stiffer Raichle tongue -- but not the stiffest such that it would hinder hiking.

If you do some searching on MegaRides, janus, you'll find a number of suggestions I made for improving the fit and flex without compromising the touring performance....if that is the route you decide to go.

Good advice in this thread.

[Particle]

Unfortunately there is a simple answer to this question that I have come to after years of trying on and using AT boots: there is no such thing as a low-volume AT boot.

There just isn't.

Modification is the name of the game. Thinking of getting some fully custom foam liners for my Diablos this fall to help fill up some space...

[corn dog]

Unfortunately there is a simple answer to this question that I have come to after years of trying on and using AT boots: there is no such thing as a low-volume AT boot.

There just isn't.

Modification is the name of the game. Thinking of getting some fully custom foam liners for my Diablos this fall to help fill up some space...

Yeah. I've tried or tried on quite a few AT boots, the g-ride/megaride seem to be about the lowest volume. Maybe the scarpa F1 but you probably don't want that And even those boots are way more roomy all around than say a pair of salomon pro models. Even tighter are my tecnica xt17s. Seems like I can barely get my foot in those shells
Get a big space consuming heat moldable liner like the intuition power wrap series and that will take up a lot of room.

[comish]

Yeah. I've tried or tried on quite a few AT boots, the g-ride/megaride seem to be about the lowest volume. Maybe the scarpa F1 but you probably don't want that And even those boots are way more roomy all around than say a pair of salomon pro models. Even tighter are my tecnica xt17s. Seems like I can barely get my foot in those shells
Get a big space consuming heat moldable liner like the intuition power wrap series and that will take up a lot of room.

This is the reality. I do believe the Megarides are lower volume than the Scarpas, at least for my feet. Still nothing like my Dobie alpine boots which make xt17's feel large. I'm still mod'ing my Megarides, but they are getting closer to the goods. Need an Intuition liner though as I have heard they are a wee bit better at taking up volume than the Megaride liner which is pretty thin.

Here is a question, if you buy a 26 intuition liner and stuff it in a 25 shell, will that extra material, when heated, help to take up some of the space?

[corn dog]

Here is a question, if you buy a 26 intuition liner and stuff it in a 25 shell, will that extra material, when heated, help to take up some of the space?

I doubt it would be noticeable. I've used garmont g-fit liners of a few different sizes and the size difference shows up in toe-room only I think. The g-fits are among the thinner, if not the thinnest of the thermo liners IMO. If you want to take up space look at the intuitions with the extra material on the cuff. G-fits work for me pretty well in those low volume alpine boots

[upallnight]

This is the reality. I do believe the Megarides are lower volume than the Scarpas, at least for my feet. Still nothing like my Dobie alpine boots which make xt17's feel large. I'm still mod'ing my Megarides, but they are getting closer to the goods. Need an Intuition liner though as I have heard they are a wee bit better at taking up volume than the Megaride liner which is pretty thin.

Here is a question, if you buy a 26 intuition liner and stuff it in a 25 shell, will that extra material, when heated, help to take up some of the space?

I use the alpine (custom or power?) wrap intuition liners in my megarides. I also use them in my Denalis. They probably do the best at "taking up room"...but to think that any thermo liner expands to fill available space is a little bit inaccurate. Thermo liners are good at compressing and molding to the foot, but the job they do at taking up space is not that great. Yes, their specs do allow for expanding when heated, but the expanded area (in my experience) is more likely to quickly break down.

For what it's worth, a thicker liner will take up more space (that's pretty obvious). Putting a slightly bigger liner into a smaller boot should take up some volume...but you have to be careful in the molding process to ensure there are no creases or other weird spots.

Another valuable tip is to use bontex footbeds (shims are available in two thicknesses). Inserting one or two of these adds very little weight and also can take up quite a bit of volume. I would go that route before scrapping your G-fit liners...or before putting a bigger liner in the boot.

Costs a few dollars and it is totally reversible if you don't like it.

[comish]

I use the alpine (custom or power?) wrap intuition liners in my megarides. I also use them in my Denalis. They probably do the best at "taking up room"...but to think that any thermo liner expands to fill available space is a little bit inaccurate. Thermo liners are good at compressing and molding to the foot, but the job they do at taking up space is not that great. Yes, their specs do allow for expanding when heated, but the expanded area (in my experience) is more likely to quickly break down.

For what it's worth, a thicker liner will take up more space (that's pretty obvious). Putting a slightly bigger liner into a smaller boot should take up some volume...but you have to be careful in the molding process to ensure there are no creases or other weird spots.

Another valuable tip is to use bontex footbeds (shims are available in two thicknesses). Inserting one or two of these adds very little weight and also can take up quite a bit of volume. I would go that route before scrapping your G-fit liners...or before putting a bigger liner in the boot.

Costs a few dollars and it is totally reversible if you don't like it.

Prolly should have added more detail. Already have bontex in there. Helps, but doesn't do anything for my rather small angles...

I realize Intuitions etc. don't expand to take up space ala Foamers, but was thinking an Intuition (since its a bit thicker than the Gfit) and maybe in an extra size bigger would work that little bit extra I'm looking for. Your point about creases etc is a good one. I'm even contemplating putting old Dobie liners in, but they don't feel quite right either...

[janus]

Thanks for all the advice guys, sounds like Megarides with some home mods might be my best bet..

How much are a pair of those intuition liners, and say a Raichie tongue for a bit of extra stiffness (whilst still maintaining good tour-a-bility)..?

[upallnight]

Thanks for all the advice guys, sounds like Megarides with some home mods might be my best bet..

How much are a pair of those intuition liners, and say a Raichie tongue for a bit of extra stiffness (whilst still maintaining good tour-a-bility)..?

intuition liners (the alpine power wraps) are about US$200 if you are paying the full retail rate.

raichle tongues are either free....or priceless. the issue is finding a source. some folks find them on old raichle boots; others find them and sell them for up to $50. scary.

the stiffest raichle tongues will make hiking unpleasant. one step down makes hiking just fine and still retains a progressive fore-aft flex. that said, the megaride will never be as stiff as a full-on alpine boot.

however...i LOVE mine and do not hesitate to ride them on anything.

[AltaPowderDaze]

I have a different experience on that. The Denali silver TT/XT tongue is much stiffer than the buttery stock 05-06 MegaRide tongue.

The 05-06 MegaRide tongue is more akin to the old (red) Denali tongue...maybe even a little softer. I've since replaced the tongue with a stiffer Raichle tongue -- but not the stiffest such that it would hinder hiking.

i don't think the megarides have a very stiff tongue by any means but they are significantly improved from their earlier model. i found a lot of stores selling mixed pairs that had different year/model parts. most of the 05-06's had the right tongue but the shell's forward lean function gave it away. likewise, i can imagine a few tongues were of the older model as well. UAN, did yours have the beefed up patch sewn on the tongue as well?

in the range of AT stiffness they are at the top. in my opinion, they are the top for dynafit compatibility. can't beat the weight w/o significant loss of control or vice versa.

[upallnight]

i don't think the megarides have a very stiff tongue by any means but they are significantly improved from their earlier model. i found a lot of stores selling mixed pairs that had different year/model parts. most of the 05-06's had the right tongue but the shell's forward lean function gave it away. likewise, i can imagine a few tongues were of the older model as well. UAN, did yours have the beefed up patch sewn on the tongue as well?

can you describe this a bit futher? i got mine in feb '06. i ditched the stock tongues after a few days. good for hiking, but a little too soft for my taste. they definitely were way softer than the denali TT/XT tongues that i had, too.

not sure what you mean about a 'sewn' patch on the tongue, but the tongue had sort of a plastic 'weave' on the back...but it all seemed to be the same material.

what was different about the forward lean?

thanks for the info!

in the range of AT stiffness they are at the top. in my opinion, they are the top for dynafit compatibility. can't beat the weight w/o significant loss of control or vice versa.

i'd agree that they are the best dynafit-compatible boot out there...but i don't think they're the stiffest AT boot. actually...i take that back. the dynafit aero freeride TFs i used for a spell were way stiffer.

old red denalis w/ XT/TT tongues were, in my experience, stiffer...but the mega rides with raichle tongues i'm now using are stiffer than red/red denalis, but softer than any of the silver-tongued variety.

but that's just my experience.

again, i think a mod'ed megaride is amazing for daily skiing from early fall turns to mid-winter pow to spring high-peak ascents/descents.

[AltaPowderDaze]

not sure what you mean about a 'sewn' patch on the tongue, but the tongue had sort of a plastic 'weave' on the back...but it all seemed to be the same material.

what was different about the forward lean?

i'll look at the liner in the morning but if i recall, they have a plastic patch covered with a similar grey material.

the lean on the older boots were 3 position vs. 2 position on the newer model. people had more trouble than usual with them unexpectedly moving.

i'd agree that they are the best dynafit-compatible boot out there...but i don't think they're the stiffest AT boot. actually...i take that back. the dynafit aero freeride TFs i used for a spell were way stiffer.

ahh, but how much do they weigh. you can put vibram soles and dynafit plugs on your salomons and have a stiff boot. an extra pound of plastic goes a long way on the feet, but i'm sure you know that.

[ulty_guy]

fwiw the crispi AT boot is supposed to be pretty narrow.

[corn dog]

fwiw the crispi AT boot is supposed to be pretty narrow.

I tried some on. I think its the same shape as their tele boots, its even got creases in the shell where the tele bellows are, just the sole doesn't flex. Crispis seem to have narrowish heel, med width toe box, less space up and down.