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  1. #126
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    Whoa. 9 year anniversary bump. This may be one of the first threads I lurked on, and I can't believe we are still deciding the best compromise for rockered vibram in alpine bindings.

    The 9 year summary: There is still no “certified” option for rockered vibram in an alpine binding. The only boots with rubber and a walk mode “certified” for alpine bindings are flat-soled with "walk modes" of varying quality.

    Soooo, what’s the latest? Jester with adjustable AFD or Solly with adjustable toe height? ANY other options?

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by changodeoro View Post
    Soooo, what’s the latest? Jester with adjustable AFD or Solly with adjustable toe height? ANY other options?
    A Marker/Volkl rep told me yesterday that Marker's coming out next season with an alpine binding with an adjustable height toe piece that will take either an alpine or AT boot. Called the 'SP' for Ski Patrol.

  3. #128
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    I think i a Jester is a good choice. I'd still do a PX or turntable with a moving AFD and a P14 or below multiaxis toe (this is what I'm using).

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    A Marker/Volkl rep told me yesterday that Marker's coming out next season with an alpine binding with an adjustable height toe piece that will take either an alpine or AT boot. Called the 'SP' for Ski Patrol.
    Good on them!

    Sent from my DROID2 using TGR Forums
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    A Marker/Volkl rep told me yesterday that Marker's coming out next season with an alpine binding with an adjustable height toe piece that will take either an alpine or AT boot.
    Man that sounds good, and I'll be watching for sure. Thanks for the ray of hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I'd still do a PX or turntable with a moving AFD and a P14 or below multiaxis toe (this is what I'm using).
    I pray for the day when these shenanigans are a relic of the past. Happy Anniversary Summit!!

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    A Marker/Volkl rep told me yesterday that Marker's coming out next season with an alpine binding with an adjustable height toe piece that will take either an alpine or AT boot. Called the 'SP' for Ski Patrol.
    Quote Originally Posted by changodeoro View Post
    Man that sounds good, and I'll be watching for sure. Thanks for the ray of hope.
    I just noticed that you're in New Mexico. It might amuse you to hear that the rep told me this when I ran into him at the Santa Fe Whole Foods. We were waiting for the person behind the bread counter to pull her head out of her ass.

    Small world.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    We were waiting for the person behind the bread counter to pull her head out of her ass.
    Whoa whoa whoa. Sara is a very nice person. On the other hand I've been waiting for this boot/binding shit to happen for 9 years

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by changodeoro View Post
    Whoa whoa whoa. Sara is a very nice person. On the other hand I've been waiting for this boot/binding shit to happen for 9 years

  8. #133
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    So skimming through this thread, I'm picking up that something like the Jester which has a gliding AFD *and* an adjustable toe height is NOT a good idea with an AT boot for some reason?
    ...Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain...

    "I enjoy skinny skiing, bullfights on acid..." - Lacy Underalls

    The problems we face will not be solved by the minds that created them.

  9. #134
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    ^why not?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw_Willie View Post
    So skimming through this thread, I'm picking up that something like the Jester which has a gliding AFD *and* an adjustable toe height is NOT a good idea with an AT boot for some reason?
    Not sure what would give you that impression... As of now, Jesters are the hands-down BEST alpine binding for cramming AT boots into.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    A Marker/Volkl rep told me yesterday that Marker's coming out next season with an alpine binding with an adjustable height toe piece that will take either an alpine or AT boot. Called the 'SP' for Ski Patrol.
    that rumor has made it's way pacificnorthwest of last known message that confirms this news

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowing alpy View Post
    that rumor has made it's way pacificnorthwest of last known message that confirms this news
    Um...what?

  13. #138
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    ^^^
    Also confirmed in the PNW, by those in a position to know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    A Marker/Volkl rep told me yesterday that Marker's coming out next season with an alpine binding with an adjustable height toe piece that will take either an alpine or AT boot. Called the 'SP' for Ski Patrol.
    Actually, the name is the "Lord"...
    AFAIK, it is based upon a Jester (same hole pattern).
    Jondrums, are you paying attention?

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    Not sure what would give you that impression... As of now, Jesters are the hands-down BEST alpine binding for cramming AT boots into.
    The fact that you say "best alpine binding for cramming AT boots into" and the fact that Marker is supposedly coming out with a new binding with a different toe piece specifically for use with both AT and alpine boots. If the Jester is already a good option, why do they need a new and different binding?
    ...Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain...

    "I enjoy skinny skiing, bullfights on acid..." - Lacy Underalls

    The problems we face will not be solved by the minds that created them.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw_Willie View Post
    The fact that you say "best alpine binding for cramming AT boots into" and the fact that Marker is supposedly coming out with a new binding with a different toe piece specifically for use with both AT and alpine boots. If the Jester is already a good option, why do they need a new and different binding?
    BEST = "least chance of causing a spiral tibia fracture"

    i.e. it sucks less than all the alternatives, not that it provides anything like the reliablity of release we've come to expect. No shop in it's right mind would sell you that setup, or even set the DIN for you. That's what Marker wants to be able to give shops.

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbense View Post
    BEST = "least chance of causing a spiral tibia fracture"

    i.e. it sucks less than all the alternatives, not that it provides anything like the reliablity of release we've come to expect. No shop in it's right mind would sell you that setup, or even set the DIN for you. That's what Marker wants to be able to give shops.
    And thus my first post on this topic - that even though the Jester has the sliding AFD and adjustable toe height it's *still* not a good idea.

    Guess I need to compare a Jester toe to something like a Duke toe to see what the difference is and try to come to some understanding of why the Jester toe won't release reliably whereas the Duke will.
    ...Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain...

    "I enjoy skinny skiing, bullfights on acid..." - Lacy Underalls

    The problems we face will not be solved by the minds that created them.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw_Willie View Post
    And thus my first post on this topic - that even though the Jester has the sliding AFD and adjustable toe height it's *still* not a good idea.

    Guess I need to compare a Jester toe to something like a Duke toe to see what the difference is and try to come to some understanding of why the Jester toe won't release reliably whereas the Duke will.
    The range of adjustment on the Duke is almost three~four times as much (eyeballing it) as the current Jester that adjusts.

  18. #143
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    Pretty sure the new SP model will just be a Jester with more range of toe height adjustment. The standard Jester toe fits some AT soles unmodified but not all.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by LC View Post
    Pretty sure the new SP model will just be a Jester with more range of toe height adjustment. The standard Jester toe fits some AT soles unmodified but not all.
    If you look at a Jester side by side with a Duke, IMO it doesn't look that simple.
    The current height of the Jester toe is lower to the ski and there isn't as much room to move the ADF down as there is on the Duke.
    BTW, SP is most likely a working name, Maker has bean using the "Royal Family" for the naming convention on most of their bindings for a while now. I was told this weekend that this model is called the Lord.

  20. #145
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    Lars Chickering-Ayers is starting a business, CAST (find it on facebook) that is addressing this very problem.
    On one side, they are designing a plate/mechanism allowing you to swap a tech toe binding with a DH toe on the fly. Not a weight saving system, just utilizing a better touring binding for the up, and a better DH binding on the way down.
    The other half is making a toe that is compatible with DIN bindings with tech toe inserts. Similar to what Arne Backstrom has done with his frankenboot. This requires planing down the original toe and t-nutting in the new toe. Its pretty solid. This is not an epoxied in insert, this is an engineered, molded and cast part. Its pretty solid.
    They are pushing the industry to bridge the gap with one set of toes/heels to be DIN and tech compatible, not like the swappable soles (read: tecnica and BD).
    As I understand it, Nordica has a boot in the works like this, as does K2.

    It is absurd they boot manufactures havent done this yet.
    Live

  21. #146
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    Someone turned this thread topic into published research!

    Performance of Alpine Touring Boots When Used in Alpine Ski Bindings

    2016 - Journal of Applied Biomechanics - Jeffrey R. Campbell , * 1 , Irving S. Scher , * 1, 2 , David Carpenter , * 3 , Bruce L. Jahnke
    https://journals.humankinetics.com/d.../jab.2016-0256

    Quote Originally Posted by Abstract
    Alpine touring (AT) equipment is designed for ascending mountains and snow skiing down backcountry terrain. Skiers have been observed using AT boots in alpine (not made for Alpine Touring) ski bindings. We tested the effect on the retention-release characteristics of AT boots used in alpine bindings. Ten AT ski boots and 5 alpine ski boots were tested in 8 models of alpine ski bindings using an ASTM F504-05 (2012) apparatus. Thirty-one percent of the AT boots released appropriately when used in alpine ski bindings. One alpine binding released appropriately for all alpine and AT boots tested; 2 alpine ski bindings did not release appropriately for any AT boots. Altering the visual indicator settings on the bindings (that control the release torque of an alpine system) had little or no effect on the release torque when using AT boots in alpine ski bindings. Many combinations released appropriately in ski shop tests, but did not release appropriately in the more complex loading cases that simulated forward and backward falls; the simple tests performed by ski shops could produce a “false-negative” test result. These results indicate that using AT boots with alpine ski bindings could increase the likelihood of lower leg injuries.
    OK who can get me a full text of this? Hope they cited this thread

    ETA full text is available as an inclusion in the guys dissertation available free here: https://digital.lib.washington.edu/r...=1&isAllowed=y
    Last edited by Summit; 10-16-2018 at 07:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  22. #147
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    you don't need to be that exact
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    you don't need to be that exact
    What are you, a telemarker?

  24. #149
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    recovering ^^ eh

    and i still have a screw in my ankle to prove it

    actualy with all the love for minimalist/ weight weenir rando bindings

    i was being facetious
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    recovering ^^ eh

    and i still have a screw in my ankle to prove it

    actualy with all the love for minimalist/ weight weenir rando bindings

    i was being facetious
    I know.

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