Real Estate Crash thread

[Conundrum]

There have GOT to be some strings...

You do have to move to WV.

[RoooR]

"West Virginia will now give you $12,000 to move to its state and work remotely"

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/west-...165421688.html

We should be paying people to move out of West Virginia.

[concretejungle]

I’ll move to Fayetteville.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[snowaddict91]

You do have to move to WV.

Now all these rich assholes are going to ruin my plan b for when the West runs out of water.

[dunfree]

I see. I was talking supply of places for people to live. You're talking about supply of places of people to own. I don't understand prop 13 enough but I would think if you're renting it out, you shouldn't get the tax benefits. If it's your primary, I don't see a problem with it.

It’s pretty much anything residential, commercial, down the line.

[Conundrum]

Well then it's dumb.

[altasnob]

Prop 13 drives up real estate prices across the board. Less people willing to sell means less inventory. Less efficient use of property (old people living in big houses) means less inventory. Higher prices means less supply because cost to construct new homes goes up.

However, my biggest complaint with Prop 13 isn't its effect on supply and prices. It's a fairness argument. The law is supposed to help old Californians from being forced to move because they can't afford to pay property tax, which goes up as prices go up. But what about all those people who have lived in CA forever who weren't fortunate enough to buy a long time ago? If you want to help Californians who have lived in California for a long time (at the expense of everyone else) why not pass a law that says if you have lived in CA for more than 20 years you no longer have to pay sales tax? That would have the same effect as Prop 13 (help older, long term Californians and make up the tax difference by taxing young and new Californians). Everyone realizes how unfair such a sales tax law would be yet some still have trouble seeing the unfairness of Prop 13.

[Benny Profane]

Dodd-Frank was signed into law in July 2010 and brought sweeping reforms to the U.S. financial sector. It branched out into many of the governing regulations already in place for setting standards in the securities and financial trading markets.1 It also built several new types of protections, namely the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB),5 which has become an important agency in helping monitor and protect the financial interests of American consumers.



DF and the CFPB has since been gutted by Trump so "Obama's inaction" is a complete misrepresentation of the facts.

Hahaha. Yeah. Dodd Frank. Yeah. Better than the New Deal!

Not one banker or financial actor from the great fraud that fueled the housing bubble in jail. Not one. You wanna know what will make those people sit up straight and get real? Jail time. Like all of those Savings and Loan criminals got. Not fucking Dodd Frank.

[Benny Profane]

You do have to move to WV.

Yup.

Vermont has been doing this for a while for 10,000. Skiing is better.

[Conundrum]

Prop 13 drives up real estate prices across the board. Less people willing to sell means less inventory. Less efficient use of property (old people living in big houses) means less inventory. Higher prices means less supply because cost to construct new homes goes up.

However, my biggest complaint with Prop 13 isn't its effect on supply and prices. It's a fairness argument. The law is supposed to help old Californians from being forced to move because they can't afford to pay property tax, which goes up as prices go up. But what about all those people who have lived in CA forever who weren't fortunate enough to buy a long time ago? If you want to help Californians who have lived in California for a long time (at the expense of everyone else) why not pass a law that says if you have lived in CA for more than 20 years you no longer have to pay sales tax? That would have the same effect as Prop 13 (help older, long term Californians and make up the tax difference by taxing young and new Californians). Everyone realizes how unfair such a sales tax law would be yet some still have trouble seeing the unfairness of Prop 13.

Higher prices means the cost of dirt goes up. It also gives builders a higher margin when materials and labor are "normal" therefore could hypothetically increase supply if they're already sitting on the dirt which many developers are and just need the trigger for profit. Hence, more supply.

If this is a fairness issue, why should a long term property owner have to move because it's not fair that someone had to rent and not own and it's their turn?

Now financing society, that's a completely different conversation.

[skaredshtles]

Yup.

Vermont has been doing this for a while for 10,000. Skiing is better.

What are Vermont's strings?

[RootSkier]

If you want to help Californians who have lived in California for a long time (at the expense of everyone else) why not pass a law that says if you have lived in CA for more than 20 years you no longer have to pay sales tax?

Probably because it would be unconstitutional.

[Benny Profane]

What are Vermont's strings?

None I've heard of, except you have to live there.

[altasnob]

If this is a fairness issue, why should a long term property owner have to move because it's not fair that someone had to rent and not own and it's their turn?

Does the long time property owner have to move? If they have limited cash flow to pay their increasing property tax bill, could they take a home equity loan to cover it? The pro Prop 13 crowd paints a picture of a little old grandma on fixed income who is forced to sell the home she's lived in for 60 years because she can't afford the property tax. But in reality, that home was purchased for $100k and is now worth $4.5 million. And most people who are benefiting from Prop 13 are not cash strapped and instead are just generic wealthy white people who don't like paying taxes.

In WA, there is a cap on property tax increase of 1% for everyone, not just people who have stayed in their home for a long time. If your goal is to keep property tax from increasing too much compared to what it was when the property was acquired, this seems like a much more fair law because everyone benefits form it. I am not a fan of WA's law because to make up for lost tax revenue, WA uses regressive taxes like sales tax (no income tax in WA).

[Toadman]

Now all these rich assholes are going to ruin my plan b for when the West runs out of water.

Duluth, MN. Get there now. Word is already out.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/202...ge-orig-me.cnn

[4matic]

Re Prop 13 in CA, by capping property taxes it also gives an incentive to old people whose kids have moved out of their giant house in the cities to stay put in their giant house rather than sell and move to a smaller condo. Rather than a family living in all those giant homes in San Francisco you have retirees who are provided a financial incentive not to move. So each home is now less densely populated than it should be.

Prop 19 mitigated that

[RootSkier]

Duluth, MN. Get there now. Word is already out.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/202...ge-orig-me.cnn

I am not watching a CNN video at work, but Duluth is a damn cool place.

[smartyiak]

I am not watching a CNN video at work, but Duluth is a damn cool place.

That IS why all the "Climate Refugees" are moving there.

[RoooR]

That IS why all the "Climate Refugees" are moving there.

Even under the worst climate change projections Duluth is still going to be bite ass cold in the winter. The riding does look pretty cool though.

[dan_pdx]

I’ll move to Fayetteville.

A buddy grew up there and we were there for his wedding. Pretty cool town, we did some rafting and I understand there's good MTB around there. You could definitely do worse.

[snowaddict91]

A buddy grew up there and we were there for his wedding. Pretty cool town, we did some rafting and I understand there's good MTB around there. You could definitely do worse.

And a new national park. Next thread down in my feed is about national park crowds.

[RootSkier]

Even under the worst climate change projections Duluth is still going to be bite ass cold in the winter. The riding does look pretty cool though.

It's only a couple degrees colder than, say, Minneapolis. But yeah, it basically stays frozen all winter.

The covid refugees must not have descended in force there, however, because this is a fuckload of house for $450k: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3...61513409_zpid/

[Toadman]

It's only a couple degrees colder than, say, Minneapolis. But yeah, it basically stays frozen all winter.

The covid refugees must not have descended in force there, however, because this is a fuckload of house for $450k: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3...61513409_zpid/

Like I said, word is already out. By next year, you will be lucky to find a fixer upper that needs $100k in reno work (which will cost $150k due to inflation) for under $500k. But you get all the fresh water you can drink!

[schuss]

Higher prices means the cost of dirt goes up. It also gives builders a higher margin when materials and labor are "normal" therefore could hypothetically increase supply if they're already sitting on the dirt which many developers are and just need the trigger for profit. Hence, more supply.

If this is a fairness issue, why should a long term property owner have to move because it's not fair that someone had to rent and not own and it's their turn?

Now financing society, that's a completely different conversation.

Why should new homeowners foot the bill for long term homeowners because their tax doesn't change? It wasn't them that voted to kick maintenance stuff down the road to make it more expensive, for example.
This is why any abatements should be specific exceptions, not rules. All the rhetoric is around little old ladies getting taxes out of their house, but the reality is rich people with million+ houses reap most of the benefits. Carving out an exception for 15+ year residents with no income outside of social security/disability - sure.current version is broken though

[dunfree]

Like I said, word is already out. By next year, you will be lucky to find a fixer upper that needs $100k in reno work (which will cost $150k due to inflation) for under $500k. But you get all the fresh water you can drink!

There’s still Superior, lower taxes!