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  1. #11251
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    Quote Originally Posted by CascadeLuke View Post
    I know people who took forbearance and have been basically earning the whole time. One of them is super close to me and they’re probably 275k in household income - living in that hot town of NB. Not my bIz but something is awry
    Yeah... there's some bullshit going on for sure.

  2. #11252
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    Fraud aside, I'm not sure why we insulate homeowners from downside risk? I mean horrible shit happens to people all the time and they get no forgiveness. Horrible shit happens to a large group of people at the same time then all the tax payers go on the hook to help them out. Unforseen unimaginable risk is part of investing and that is what homeownership is...investment in real estate.

    But maybe that's the problem. Everyone is entitled to a policy supported savings account that they get to live in. Except the people that can't afford the ante. They just get to pay for it.

  3. #11253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...or-homeowners/

    How far are we going to kick the can down the road? This will keep inventory at record low levels and keep house prices climbing.

    We're screwing over an entire generation of would be homeowners by protecting current homeowners.
    Yeah, I mean, it's not like we still have a global pandemic that's eliminated most of the earning potential from specific industries that might unfairly punish people for having public-facing jobs.

    Also: earners taking forebearance - who cares?

  4. #11254
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    Most of my comment centers from contact and out reach around loan origination. I get the feeling many entered with justification but the weak regulation and monitoring allowed people to walk a slippery slope. For instance it’s challenging to get back sorted out and take advantage of current interest rates if you bought recently and have little equity.

  5. #11255
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    Yeah, I mean, it's not like we still have a global pandemic that's eliminated most of the earning potential from specific industries that might unfairly punish people for having public-facing jobs.

    Also: earners taking forebearance - who cares?
    We are picking winners and, in turn, picking losers. Anyone who did the right things like getting an education, starting a career and then living below their means and saving for a house is fucked because of the record low inventory and record price increases.

    People who put little money down, didn't save for a rainy day and now aren't paying their mortgages are being backstopped at the expense of the above stated responsible people. That's bad public policy in my book.

  6. #11256
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    the tide has risen for those in boat

    errybody gets to have their cake and eat it

    i still think the gov is just giving boomers a chance to retire that they will spend away

    i want to benefit from our socialism some day

  7. #11257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Fraud aside, I'm not sure why we insulate homeowners from downside risk? I mean horrible shit happens to people all the time and they get no forgiveness. Horrible shit happens to a large group of people at the same time then all the tax payers go on the hook to help them out. Unforseen unimaginable risk is part of investing and that is what homeownership is...investment in real estate.

    But maybe that's the problem. Everyone is entitled to a policy supported savings account that they get to live in. Except the people that can't afford the ante. They just get to pay for it.
    They don't give much of a fuck about "homeowners". They care about the mortgage holders.

  8. #11258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    We are picking winners and, in turn, picking losers. Anyone who did the right things like getting an education, starting a career and then living below their means and saving for a house is fucked because of the record low inventory and record price increases.

    People who put little money down, didn't save for a rainy day and now aren't paying their mortgages are being backstopped at the expense of the above stated responsible people. That's bad public policy in my book.
    If the briefing you posted existed in a vacuum then yes, i agree. but we're still over a year into a pandemic that the federal government is continuing to fail to protect us from. people need help, poor decisions (when the "adults" in the room are saying you can borrow X amount for a home with little down is it really your poor decision?) and all, and kicking them out on the street right now won't help anything.

  9. #11259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    We are picking winners and, in turn, picking losers. Anyone who did the right things like getting an education, starting a career and then living below their means and saving for a house is fucked because of the record low inventory and record price increases.

    People who put little money down, didn't save for a rainy day and now aren't paying their mortgages are being backstopped at the expense of the above stated responsible people. That's bad public policy in my book.
    You would like what Scott Galloway has to say on the general subject of the young sacrificed to keep the old rich.

    https://www.profgalloway.com/the-algebra-of-wealth

  10. #11260
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
    If the briefing you posted existed in a vacuum then yes, i agree. but we're still over a year into a pandemic that the federal government is continuing to fail to protect us from. people need help, poor decisions (when the "adults" in the room are saying you can borrow X amount for a home with little down is it really your poor decision?) and all, and kicking them out on the street right now won't help anything.
    This has been going on for over a decade, when we went to effectively zero interest rates and bailed out the financial industry in '08.

  11. #11261
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    What's the zoning like where you live, Kevo?

  12. #11262
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    Zoning here is mostly not enforced, but there is limited supply because it costs north of $350/sq foot to build here at the moment.

    I should mention that I'm a homeowner who is benefiting from the backstop (in the form of rising equity, I am paying my bills). I have friends and co-workers who are getting fucked by rising prices and limited supply.

  13. #11263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    This has been going on for over a decade, when we went to effectively zero interest rates and bailed out the financial industry in '08.
    happened a decade ago =/= happening for a decade

  14. #11264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    We are picking winners and, in turn, picking losers. Anyone who did the right things like getting an education, starting a career and then living below their means and saving for a house is fucked because of the record low inventory and record price increases.

    People who put little money down, didn't save for a rainy day and now aren't paying their mortgages are being backstopped at the expense of the above stated responsible people. That's bad public policy in my book.
    I figured out a little while ago that the "right thing", notably the concept of saving to buy a house within your means, isn't necessarily for your benefit exclusively. The big boys want you on the sideline, saving for that rainy day, while they go out there and make hay while the sun shines.

    It is really blatant with retirement funds. Notice how every financial advisor says you need enough saved to replace 80% of your income, or to save at least 15% of your gross annually, all while taking a slice right off the top. They gotta get theirs first.

    Obviously you can't spend above your means in perpetuity, but I think you get my point.
    Live Free or Die

  15. #11265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    We are picking winners and, in turn, picking losers. Anyone who did the right things like getting an education, starting a career and then living below their means and saving for a house is fucked because of the record low inventory and record price increases.

    People who put little money down, didn't save for a rainy day and now aren't paying their mortgages are being backstopped at the expense of the above stated responsible people. That's bad public policy in my book.
    That's.... quite a set of inferences there. Is it screwing some people over? Sure. Would not offering forbearances screw other people over? Sure.
    Inferring that people with houses and mortgages are, on balance, LESS responsible than people currently looking to buy is a fucking leap and a half. I'm a responsible homeowner that isn't using a forbearance - am I responsible? I'm very concerned what you think...
    In all seriousness - this is a pandemic that wasn't managed for shit, so it's dragging on longer than we wanted it to, unfairly impacting business like food service etc. - I don't think anyone with any ounce of empathy would argue we should fuck those folks over because they "weren't responsible" in favor of people newly looking on the market. Yeah, it all sucks right now, for everyone. Why make it suck more for that particular group? That "responsible" group you're talking about are currently renting (IE are already in a stable situation) and will keep doing so, likely saving more. They delay their acquisition of a home by 1-2 years. What's worse, that delay or people getting booted out of their homes because they are not legally allowed to open their businesses, or their employers are not open because of that?

  16. #11266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    Zoning here is mostly not enforced, but there is limited supply because it costs north of $350/sq foot to build here at the moment.

    I should mention that I'm a homeowner who is benefiting from the backstop (in the form of rising equity, I am paying my bills). I have friends and co-workers who are getting fucked by rising prices and limited supply.
    How does that work with zoning not being enforced? Are developers/new construction types just throwing a few dollars at the city/county council/boards and building whatever they want? Or do they submit building plans, get them approved and then make changes to them after the fact? That seems crazy to me. "yeah, I know this 10 acre parcel is zoned R1, but we didn't think anyone would care if we built it out with 50 homes on it. "
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  17. #11267
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    My Teton Valley zoning experience is that they care about setbacks and number of houses / adu's per lot, but inspections are semi-rare and often half assed. There is a big difference between county/city and commercial/residential also it seems.

    Basically don't piss off your neighbors and a lot of shit will slide, but you can't just throw up 3 houses or a manufacturing facility on a 1 SFH lot and no one will notice.
    Live Free or Die

  18. #11268
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    My Teton Valley zoning experience is that they care about setbacks and number of houses / adu's per lot, but inspections are semi-rare and often half assed. There is a big difference between county/city and commercial/residential also it seems.

    Basically don't piss off your neighbors and a lot of shit will slide, but you can't just throw up 3 houses or a manufacturing facility on a 1 SFH lot and no one will notice.
    Seems like planning/zoning is doing it's job and it's the building department that's lacking then?

  19. #11269
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    That's.... quite a set of inferences there. Is it screwing some people over? Sure. Would not offering forbearances screw other people over? Sure.
    Inferring that people with houses and mortgages are, on balance, LESS responsible than people currently looking to buy is a fucking leap and a half. I'm a responsible homeowner that isn't using a forbearance - am I responsible? I'm very concerned what you think...
    In all seriousness - this is a pandemic that wasn't managed for shit, so it's dragging on longer than we wanted it to, unfairly impacting business like food service etc. - I don't think anyone with any ounce of empathy would argue we should fuck those folks over because they "weren't responsible" in favor of people newly looking on the market. Yeah, it all sucks right now, for everyone. Why make it suck more for that particular group? That "responsible" group you're talking about are currently renting (IE are already in a stable situation) and will keep doing so, likely saving more. They delay their acquisition of a home by 1-2 years. What's worse, that delay or people getting booted out of their homes because they are not legally allowed to open their businesses, or their employers are not open because of that?
    People are going to lose thier homes. It is inevitable.

    Businesses were given fast and loose PPP loans to keep them afloat. Trillions of dollars has flooded into equities and real estate to keep things afloat. Companies and people should be allowed to go bankrupt. Let some air out of the balloon and let things reset. instead, we are blowing things up bigger and bigger to shore up people and businesses that should be bankrupt.

    Debt cycle resets are a good thing. They keep asset prices from skyrocketing out of control. We are backstopping any asset owner at the expense of those who should be entering the ownership class at this stage in their life. This situation of over inflated assets to protect the ownership class will have ripple effects for decades and lock millions into being perpetual renters.

  20. #11270
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    Dec 2020
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    Idaho
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    People are going to lose thier homes. It is inevitable.

    Businesses were given fast and loose PPP loans to keep them afloat. Trillions of dollars has flooded into equities and real estate to keep things afloat. Companies and people should be allowed to go bankrupt. Let some air out of the balloon and let things reset. instead, we are blowing things up bigger and bigger to shore up people and businesses that should be bankrupt.

    Debt cycle resets are a good thing. They keep asset prices from skyrocketing out of control. We are backstopping any asset owner at the expense of those who should be entering the ownership class at this stage in their life. This situation of over inflated assets to protect the ownership class will have ripple effects for decades and lock millions into being perpetual renters.

    Pretty hard in a pandemic to #1 throw people out on the street, or #2 take away their health care insurance. We are perhaps less than a year away from overcoming the pandemic so a little more patience now may save a LOT of human suffering and tax dollars.

    The person w 4 ABNB units and no backstop(savings) unfortunately is going to benefit from lenient policies, but it can't be helped.

  21. #11271
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    Oct 2003
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    Seattle
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    Look at the kind of fine home you can get in Whistler for just over 3 million CAD.
    https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Home-...102426884.html

  22. #11272
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    Apr 2003
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    Question. What does a 40yr old 1250sf 3bed / 3bath renovated condo run in other ski towns? Trying to understand how far Mammoth's market could run? I'm convinced historically it's been undervalued, but things have definitely gone bonkers in the last 6 months. Good location, walkable to village, but not ski-in ski-out?

    We talking $700's, $800's, $900k, $1m + or?

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    He who has the most fun wins!

  23. #11273
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    Quote Originally Posted by comish View Post
    Question. What does a 40yr old 1250sf 3bed / 3bath renovated condo run in other ski towns? Trying to understand how far Mammoth's market could run? I'm convinced historically it's been undervalued, but things have definitely gone bonkers in the last 6 months. Good location, walkable to village, but not ski-in ski-out?

    We talking $700's, $800's, $900k, $1m + or?

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Probably 2 mill+ in Jackson, which is probably going to always be a higher value than Mammoth.

    https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-70230?view=qv
    Live Free or Die

  24. #11274
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    Could be 350000 in Vermont near a decent hill.

  25. #11275
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Probably 2 mill+ in Jackson, which is probably going to always be a higher value than Mammoth.

    https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-70230?view=qv
    Wow! Damn I should bought a condo in the village when I lived there... Too bad my rental monkey salary barely paid for Ramen at that point. 1800 per sf is insane! Interesting, keep the data points coming. Thanks!

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    He who has the most fun wins!

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